OT: Diesel Turbos

[B-Man]

I Know it's not Skylines but still forced induction OK:

I'm looking into a 4WD , particularly a diesel turbo - And was wondering:

Are diesel turbos subject to the same general rules of modification as petrol turbos ?

ie If you whack a bigger turbo on - do you need to change ECU, injectors etc ??

Are the A/F ration for max performance the same ?

Can you increase boost the stock engines like you can on a petrol turbo ? What is safe ?

How much difference does an intercooler make ?? Same is a petrol ?

Can you increase your exhuast flow (ie bigger exhaust) for more performance ?

What are the gotchas ??

Can you point me to some good diesel turbo web sites ?? Have tried a google search and not much luck ?

Any other tips ??

Cheers,

[cameron]

Hey B-Man

The upgrades you can do to a desiel will give you different power gain too a petrol engine. (Petrol will give you more from intercooler, exhaust, boost etc.) Desil won't make much more power but it will make some.

I'm not sure why it doesnt make as much from the same modifications but might have somthing to do with the way desiel ignites via air compression not spark like fuel

Should be same as petrol eg: chiped ecu with more boost and trying to get a/f ratios correct etc.

Jun

[GTR4ever]

loool

not a hijacking but... i got a silly Q..

could you use Turbos off Diesel cars?? coz i see all kinds of diesel turbos all around for dirt cheap !!

,on a patrol engine that is!!

[B-Man]

I'd reckon it would be a bit dodgy - diesels don't rev well past 3000-4000 RPM so their turbos would be designed to make power in this range -

I guess you could use a turbo of an 8.0 litre Diesel on a 2.5 litre petrol engine - but hey - I am not about to go trial and error that sort of shite.

[GTR4ever]

hmmm!!

interesting

[Sydneykid]

loool  

not a hijacking but... i got a silly Q..

could you use Turbos off Diesel cars?? coz i see all kinds of diesel turbos all around for dirt cheap !!

 

 

,on a patrol engine that is!!

Diesels have much lower exhaust gas temperature, you don't see 300 degrees celsius. A petrol engine on the other hand will get to tripple that. So if you use a diesel turbo on a petrol engine, the seals last no time, the oil/water cooling is deficient, so the bearings die very quickly, even the turbines and exhaust housings are not designed for the temperature of a petrol engine exhaust.

Bottom line, not a good idea.

[Mik]

Diesels have much lower exhaust gas temperature, you don't see 300 degrees celsius.  A petrol engine on the other hand will get to tripple that.  So if you use a diesel turbo on a petrol engine, the seals last no time, the oil/water cooling is deficient, so the bearings die very quickly, even the turbines and exhaust housings are not designed for the temperature of a petrol engine exhaust.

Bottom line, not a good idea.

Diesel engines do run much lower exhaust temps, but around 550 degrees celcius is pretty much normal for a turbo diesel engine on full song.

[Sydneykid]

Diesel engines do run much lower exhaust temps, but around 550 degrees celcius is pretty much normal for a turbo diesel engine on full song.

Yep 500 degC is the temp in the exhaust manifold, 300 degC is more like the temp at the turbine outlet, which is the more usual measuring point. The difference is the amount of heat (energy) converted to kinetic energy in the turning of the turbine. The result would be similar for a petrol engine, so the comparison is valid.

[Mik]

Yep 500 degC is the temp in the exhaust manifold, 300 degC is more like the temp at the turbine outlet, which is the more usual measuring point.  The difference is the amount of heat (energy) converted to kinetic energy in the turning of the turbine.  The result would be similar for a petrol engine, so the comparison is valid.

I actually meant 550 degrees C at the turbine outlet

[2rismo]

Don't Mitsubishi turbo's get used all the time on RB's?

i.e. some of the bigger Trust (MHI) compressors???

Adrian

[ace_nz]

ive pyroed heaps of diesels and the difference from pre turbo to outlet temps is usually around 100'c, and 550 is pretty normal at the turbine outlet, ive seen them as high as 900, very dangerous then, and people wonder why they crack heads all the time, all the toyota 2LT owners out there will know what im talking about, usually over fuelling massively.

[Sydneykid]

Don't Mitsubishi turbo's get used all the time on RB's?

i.e. some of the bigger Trust (MHI) compressors???

Adrian

Chocolate frog for Adrian, T88 is a Canter turbo. But Mitsubishi do upgrade some components like seals, bearings, thrusts, exhaust housing etc to handle the extra heat.

[Driver]

i want a chocolate frog

[B-Man]

Oi - back OT please

So if I were to get a 1989 Pajero (2.5L) or Safari aka Cruiser (4.0L)

And I wanted to get some more grunt - what's the best best way to do it ? (keeping the diesel motor)

Can I boost it ? If not why ?

Can I fit a bigger Cooler , Bigger Turbo (T88) he he

Or is this completely not worth it ?

[KamikazeR33]

wack in a petty motor

[snake]

My dad has an 80 series turbo diesel landcruiser. In stock trim it doesnt have an intercooler or any form of electronic fuel injection (rotary fuel pump). First thing we did to it was fit a 3 inch exhaust from the turbo back, gave an excellent improvement in power and torque, especially in the lower and middle rev range around the 1700 to 3000 rpm mark, boost rose from about 9 psi to 13 psi. Next was a large frount mount intercooler, power and torque again rose noticeably. We also fitted a air ram snorkel. Its a pipe that runs from the air filter, outside the front guard and up along the A pillar with a scoop on the top to collect cold air from the roof line, has a ram effect when you are driving along, also gave a noticeable improvement. At 4200 rpm in 5th it easil does over 170 km hr, The landcruiser weighs in at 2900kg on the weighbridge. It gets to 170 very easily for a vehicle of its size and is dying for another gear to keep going. Apparently you can lift the boost on these slightly more without to much trouble but need to adjust the fuel pump to deliver more fuel. Also have heard that someone (CAPA?) make a highflow turbo for the cruiser, i am keen to give this a try but funds limit. Towing is also fantastic cruiser=2900kg + boat= 1600kg total weight =4500kg, still gets up and over the 140kmhr

[Mik]

My dad has an 80 series turbo diesel landcruiser. In stock trim it doesnt have an intercooler or any form of electronic fuel injection (rotary fuel pump).  First thing we did to it was fit a 3 inch exhaust from the turbo back, gave an excellent improvement in power and torque, especially in the lower and middle rev range around the 1700 to 3000 rpm mark, boost  rose from about 9 psi to 13 psi.  Next was a large frount mount intercooler, power and torque again rose noticeably. We also fitted a air ram snorkel. Its a pipe that runs from the air filter, outside the front guard and up along the A pillar with a scoop on the top to collect cold air from the roof line, has a ram effect when you are driving along, also gave a noticeable improvement.  At 4200 rpm in 5th it easil does over 170 km hr,  The landcruiser weighs in at 2900kg on the weighbridge.  It gets to 170 very easily for a vehicle of its size and is dying for another gear to keep going.  Apparently you can lift the boost on these slightly more without to much trouble but need to adjust the fuel pump to deliver more fuel. Also have heard that someone (CAPA?) make a highflow turbo for the cruiser, i am keen to give this a try but funds limit.  Towing is also fantastic  cruiser=2900kg + boat= 1600kg total weight =4500kg, still gets up and over the 140kmhr

An 80 series landcrusier turbo is closer to 2300kg than to 2900kg

[R31 POWER]

I read somewhere that cooling the air to much will lower power? is that correct for a diesel.

[snake]

A STANDARD 80 series is 2300kg yes, Standard 80 series will have one 95ltr fuel tank + an additional 50ltr sub tank, ours still has the 95ltr one but the 50 ltr tank has been replaced with a 170ltr tank for extra range. Total fuel = 265ltrs. Also have steel bull bar with 9000lb warn winch, replacement steel rear bar with spare wheel carrier (needed because the 170ltr tank takes up the space of the spare wheel underneath, hence shift spare wheel onto swing bracket attached to new rear bumper) also have removed third row of seats and replaced with drawer system which is full of tools and recovery gear, and then theres the engel fridge etc, it all starts to add up.

Cooling the air to much for a diesel will result in power loss, Diesels do not have spark plugs to ignite cumbustion, it is done by compression ignition and heat. Diesels will usually run about the 20:1 mark, the high pressure causes the diesel to combust in the cylinder the heat helps this process, thats why diesels are equipped with "glow plugs" to warm them up a bit on cold start. To cold an induction can actually affect the engines ability to combust the diesel fuel totally and hence effect power. (I thinks thats the theory anyway).