Power FC vs. the rest

[SLY33]

Can anyone tell me conclusively why they think the FC is better than a MicroTech? (for an R33 gts-t in particular)

I recently purchased a LT12 plug in from MicroTech, but only just! I seemed to have lots of people telling me "the FC is the only way to go" One tuning place told me the FC had certain idle controllers etc, that the MicroTech didnt, but when i checked up, i found that it DID.

The other thing ppl kept telling me was "you'll have driveability issues". This concerned me the most, and pushed me toward the tried and tested FC.

I was then swung in pure favour of the MicroTech after a spin in whatsisname's 33 (AWESOME). I dont think anyone can tell me they'll be able to pick a MicroTech over an FC once installed?

One minor negative about the MTech, is possibly increased fuel consumption due to the not quite as accurate MAP sensor vs an Airflow meter. But as my car (and probably most other ppl) is driven with a fairly heavy foot anyway, it doesnt really become an issue. (i was told that one LT12 fitted 33 increased fuel consumption by 1-2 litres per 100km- not bad!).

So what i'm thinking is that the cheaper aussie ECU alternatives to the Jap stuff are really up on the same level, and its not necessary to spend extra dollars on something like the FC (this is in relation to street use). But i could be wrong, i havent had mine for very long! Please tell me. cheers

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[meggala]

a couple of reasons the power fc is more popular .

1 in plugs straight in to the plug and look like the stock etc.

(install is with in 2 minutes.) so if you get defected for having an after market ecu you can plug you old stock one back in you can also do this if you sell the car.

2. to it still uses the airflow meter which does have its good points for tuning etc and retains the factory look. reducing the chance of gettign defected for an after market ecu in the first place.

3 tunability they are easily tuned by numerous people.

4 is fuel economy I have heard that the micro tech does loose up to 100 klm per tank for simialrly tuned cars.

5 resale value. if you sell your car you will always get a good price and a quick sale for a power fc andcan plug your old ecu back in your self.

.

load point

microtech 16 X 16

power fc 20X20

resoulution

microtech 500 rpm

power fc 400 rpm

jsut some points.

microtech does have it on price but if you include install I'm not sure what that would cost.

tuning for power fc is very quick as well cause the car ecu comes with base maps.

cheers

meggala

just some thoughts

[meggala]

one Last thing I forgot the power fc does have temperature compensation with microtech does not.

one big plus with micro tech is your buying australian

meggala

[SLY33]

Thnks for your points dude!

gee, i never even thought about getting defected for an aftermarket ECU! How common is that one!!?? I can understand BOV's etc, but how many cops will pick the lack of airflow meter?

The LT12 is also a plug and play for a 33 gts-t and i think install should be the same time. Though i dont think it looks like a factory plug, as you mentioned (but hey, its under the carpet!)

So to convert to original you just need to keep your AFM and old comp.

The LT12 also has base maps.

Thats a good point about the resale- Power FC has a huge reputation, and would help sell the car. Hopefully Microtech will build one for itself soon, as theres some unjustified bad stuff going around about them!

As far as losing 100km per tank, thats a crazy amount of extra fuel being used!! can you tell me what application this was on?

**would be great to hear fuel consumption from any other microtech (esp LT12 users)?!

The spec comparision you provided is pretty interesting, but what is load point 16x16 etc? something to do with the mapping points?

The LT-12 Plug n play from MicroTech is still fairly new for the GTS-t 33. For those who are interested, i ended up paying just under $1950 fitted and tuned, as opposed to my quote of $2400 fitted and tuned for an FC. (my price included piping to replace the AFM) Happy with that. -SLY

[SLY33]

about the temp compensation, i read in one of whatsisnames threads, that it does have it?! it just needs a sensor fitted after the throttle body.

[meggala]

well I know of someone whose r33 with stock turbo is lucky to make 250 klms to a tank driven carefully and it was tuned by a well known tuner . not naming names though

meggala

[SLY33]

that dosnt sound good! but I wouldnt take that as the norm. We had a 33 in adelaide that made 230kw at the wheels with standard turbo and just an FC and std mods, wheras most will be around the high 190's, low 200's.

-apparently that was the most power ever obtained from any 33 with the std turbo? (in adelaide at least!)

[meggala]

you will find out soon enough 100 klm per tank is alot of money in a year.

btw I belive the micro tech doen't ahve closed loop either

m

[SLY33]

yes, 100kms per tank is a lot of money in the long run. but like i said i dont think thats the average case. I will do a propper test and let you know- that just means ill have to drive around normally for a week :lol:

[SLY33]

From one of Matt's Posts :

"The only extra requirement is an inlet air temp sensor (fitted into piping before the throttle body) it's not needed but without it you don't get air temp correction."

Does the air temp correction make lots of difference? By the sound of it, does it just increase or decrease the amount of fuel according to the temp and hence density of the inlet air??

[meggala]

not sure I'm not a mechanic your tuner would know that

I was only quoteing from and article personally I prefer modding the stock ecu on my r32 and my s-afc. its alot cheaper

cheers

[GiJOr33]

this is a sweet thread... exactly the dilemma i'm having. Also, what is the difference between the LT12 and the MTX12?

I've got a HKS VPC and FCONV, but no one in Melbourne to tune it. So i was thinking of the Microtech or Power FC, thing is if i go the Power FC i'll have to get an Airflow Meter so that will add to the cost another $300 or so. I've discussed this with meggala before, but am also interested in what others have experience. But i'm still liking the sound of the power fc just cos it's tried and true. probably cost me an extra $1000 though, as i'd have to get piping made for the AFM.

I don't like the sound of 100km a tank drop in fuel economy. Is that a side effect of the MAP instead of the AFM setup? or does it just relate to the microtech?

I need to get mine sorted out asap as i need to get it tuned. it pisses out black smoke when i boot it :eek1:

Thanks

Andrew

[Merli]

Biggest reason:

LT12 = 16x16 Map = 256 Tuning/Load Points

PFC = 20x20 Map = 400 Tuning/Load Points.

That's nearly twice the tuning resolution.

'nuff said.

[GiJOr33]

hmmm... sh1t...

what are the chances of tuning a car with a HKS VPC and a Power FC? keeping the VPC saves me from having to get an AFM and piping made up. Or would the extra time on the dyno to make it work cost as much as a 300ZX AFM and piping?

--

Andrew

[whatsisname]

Originally posted by Merli

Biggest reason:

LT12 = 16x16 Map = 256 Tuning/Load Points

PFC = 20x20 Map = 400 Tuning/Load Points.

That's nearly twice the tuning resolution.

'nuff said.

I wonder how many people would actually be able to "tell" those extra load points, & a difference in driveability, with a well tuned LT12 vs. PFC equipped car? Ever had a flashy video/stereo that if you we're lucky you used 1/2 of the features?

Megs/Sly,

The LT12 certainly does have temp correction (air & water). Air temp correction uses a temperature based map that allows more/less fuel depending on inlet air temp. Without it, it just uses the fuel map uncorrected.

At the end of the day they both (PFC - LT12) have their respective pros & cons, as do all after market ECU's. We base our individual choices on a number of factors, like price, tuning knowledge, useable features (data logging is damn handy!) intended application, ease of installation & so on. I'm just happy we in OZ have so many quality ECU choices

And as I always say - The best ECU in the world is only as good as the person punching in the numbers.

I can see this thread degenerating into another ECU war :lol:

[Evan]

I had a car come in with power fc and hks vpc, not sure it it ever really worked that well, pulled it out straight away due to engine being one the sick side and then just put a standard computer back in later.

E

[GiJOr33]

Biggest reason:  

LT12 = 16x16 Map = 256 Tuning/Load Points  

PFC = 20x20 Map = 400 Tuning/Load Points.  

That's nearly twice the tuning resolution.  

'nuff said.

I'm a little new to ECU's etc, so at the end of the day, what does more tuning/load points give you? where are you going to see the results? and what does this mean the tuner can do?

Thanks

Andrew

[Merli]

Originally posted by whatsisname

I wonder how many people would actually be able to "tell" those extra load points, & a difference in driveability, with a well tuned LT12 vs. PFC equipped car? Ever had a flashy video/stereo that if you we're lucky you used 1/2 of the features?

Well Matt...

If your tuner can't take advantage for a higher resolution tuning map, then I suggest you find yourself a competent tuner. I'm sure whoever tuned your car should be able to give you a smoother power curve and better power delivery with nearly double the load points.

It's not a matter of whether WE can tell it has double the load points or not, it's a matter of whether your TUNER can take advantage of it... If he can't, then see above.

This isn't a case of "more features or dials on the stereo", this is a case of "Deck A has 8V preouts and Deck B has 1V preouts"...

[SLY33]

GiJOr33,

to my knowledge, the MTX12 and LT12 are the same computer. Just that the LT12 is the new Plug and Play version for the R33 GTS-t, so if you went the Mtech, the LT12 is what you'd run, like myself and whatsisname.

Also i believe freebaggin is running a LT12 (is he the one with the black R33 in adelaide??!) If so, then it is him that reported only a few litres per 100kms increase in fuels consumption.

Quote:

"I don't like the sound of 100km a tank drop in fuel economy. Is that a side effect of the MAP instead of the AFM setup? or does it just relate to the microtech?"

Like i mentioned before, 100km loss per tank sounds excessive. The extra fuel thats used is a result of the MAP vs Airflow Meter, as the AFM is more accurate.

[GiJOr33]

so why use MAP if Airflow Meter is more accurate?

i understand that you remove the AFM restriction, but surely the difference between restriction and loss of accuracy would only be noticable in high HP applications...

oh ok... cos i've got a Zoom magazine that lists all the computers and their features in a table so you can see what they have.

I've chucked it up on my webspace...

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/r33/ecu.jpg

The Microtech says there is no Temp Comp Lambda, but someone says there is... perhaps they put it in the LT12

Andrew