Changes to 15 year rule is out public told officially next month,

[Duncan]

Its certainly good news for the RAWS it gives them an extra income stream.....they have to charge a fortune for compliance ATM to get back the costs of setting up in the first place

But, I still have missed the change?

Can a RAWS bring in any 15yo car? Or only cars produced before 1990?

[regan]

Its certainly good news for the RAWS it gives them an extra income stream.....they have to charge a fortune for compliance ATM to get back the costs of setting up in the first place

But, I still have missed the change?

Can a RAWS bring in any 15yo car? Or only cars produced before 1990?

The details are yet to be revealed other than

1. Raws to import via import apro( not restricted to RAW,s owning the vehicles)

2. Sevs list only

3. 100 per RAW (as 15Y/O catagory)

4. To be officially anounced before Xmas.

NOTE ** This will NOT restrict vehicles for inclusion on the SEV,s list that are currently NOT listed, as some vehicles will be avaliable but have not yet been applied for under the SEV,s Ruling.

[Dash]

Seems like RAW workshops are the winners here making brokers almost redundant

But as said the market will dictate prices.

Really what other 15 year old cars become available next year besides the NSX(which still command a bomb anyway)

[Guest]

Seems like RAW workshops are the winners here making brokers almost redundant

Well brokers almost redundant is an under statement.

I think it puts far too much power in the hands of RAWS to extort customers

What power would they have except ensuring a car that comes in isnt some thrashed out piece of shit.

Well how about the vehicle I took over the pits the other day as a favour, it was sold from the usual cut and paste auction site as "Otherwise in very good condition for it's age" well turbos leaking oil, power steering leaking oil, master cylinder leaking oil, exhaust has rust and needs to be replaced and pulls to the left just driving due to the big hit.

It will cost more to repair the car than he paid for it, this guy spent his last dollar getting it complyied and now he cant afford to repair it which is usualy the case of people who buy these cars.

You will pay a guy $1,100 to cut and paste a car off a web site in Japan but you dont think it is fair for a dealer to make $3,000 on a car that is registered, you can test drive it, get an inspection done on the car and more than likely get a warrenty on it.

The people that bring in their own car are a minority in the eyes of the Dept of Transport, the concern is if the cars come in they can have somebody accountable for the car and the work complying them.

Just talk to the RAWS that were inspected this week with no notice if they will bring in a damaged car for you.

[Dash]

Quote:

I think it puts far too much power in the hands of RAWS to extort customers

Hey bud I didn't say that and personally like the idea of a one stop shop

Takes the the alot the unknown out of the process as your dealing with the one company

and obviously they'll have a place of business to go to sort out any problems.

Also makes them more accountable.

[regan]

Well brokers almost redundant is an under statement.

You will pay a guy $1,100 to cut and paste a car off a web site in Japan but you dont think it is fair for a dealer to make $3,000 on a car that is registered, you can test drive it, get an inspection done on the car and more than likely get a warrenty on it.

I agree, Sounds like a couple of K well spent to me!!!!!

NO waiting, NO "your car your problem", NO missing parts, NO "no" Warranty, NO doing battle with customs, NO taking the day-off work to line up at the pits, NO 20+ days waiting for a imp apro, NO nasty supprises.NO stupid "cut and paste"fees>>>>

[SteveL]

Well brokers almost redundant is an under statement.

I think you should declare your interest...your obviously 'in the business' and have a vested interest in the matter.

What power would they have except ensuring a car that comes in isnt some thrashed out piece of shit.

RAWS will have total power over what's imported and what isn't, as well as the price....pretty major power I would have thought, effectively market control. Individuals will no longer be able to bid at auction since there's no gaurantee the RAW will agree to apply for import of the car that's purchased....in effect individuals would have to get prior approval from the RAW before bidding, but of course the RAW won't/can't give approval on something it hasn't seen yet......like that's going to work

Well how about the vehicle I took over the pits the other day as a favour, it was sold from the usual cut and paste auction site as "Otherwise in very good condition for it's age" well turbos leaking oil, power steering leaking oil, master cylinder leaking oil, exhaust has rust and needs to be replaced and pulls to the left just driving due to the big hit.

It will cost more to repair the car than he paid for it, this guy spent his last dollar getting it complyied and now he cant afford to repair it which is usualy the case of people who buy these cars.

...and how about the vehicle I just bought which is damn near perfect for a 15 yo car. I've ended up getting a bargain, so it's not 'usually the case' and I'm sure there's many others that can refute such claims. Oh sure, there will be some that get caught out, but I'd venture they are a minority.

You will pay a guy $1,100 to cut and paste a car off a web site in Japan but you dont think it is fair for a dealer to make $3,000 on a car that is registered, you can test drive it, get an inspection done on the car and more than likely get a warrenty on it.

You've effectively admitted the price will go up by at least $1900 and probably a lot more because RAWS will claim that 'your getting a better car' - maybe...but maybe the individual would have liked to have the choice and satisfaction of buying the car themselves...I know I did.

The people that bring in their own car are a minority in the eyes of the Dept of Transport, the concern is if the cars come in they can have somebody accountable for the car and the work complying them.

Those individuals ARE the enthusiasts, not the RAWS. You act as if RAWS are some sort of benevolent society, but at the end of the day they are a business like any other who are in it to make money. Individual choice goes out the window, but RAWS will be happy.

Just talk to the RAWS that were inspected this week with no notice if they will bring in a damaged car for you.

I hope they are made even more accountable after this, considering the potential money earner they have been handed on a plate (or are about to be if this is all as you've indicated).

[predator]

I never said it wasn't fair for dealers to charge what they do.. I just said I, as well as most people, would like the option to equitably still import a car privately if we wished so. The option is of course there to go ahead and do it privately, but I see what happening in the future is the number of avenues to do this becomes smaller and smaller. When they are smaller the choices decrease. Those with the money get what they want.

I would love to see a dealer who can get $10,000 on a 15 year old car or even a SEVS one you would be lucky to make that much on a good R34 GTR.

Well I do know there is a lot of business costs associated with the average business, and getting the cars into the yard, however good on them if they can get those prices. $25k for an R33, $20k for an R32 - most who have sniffed around the import market know what is being paid over in Japan, even for good examples. Many will not ever want to pay those prices, if they can get it cheaper, and possibly better (or at least exactly the same) for a few $thousand cheaper.

NOT all RAWS are Dealers!!!

What it to prevent anybody from importing there own vehicle, as they do today either through a broker or by what ever means, and having a RAW comply it on there behalf?????

no shit..what was being implied by a few was that in effect that RAWS would possibly get more money from a dealership to comply the car, and more pressure to form a good relationship with RAWS workshops to source a number of cars. Since the number of plates are limited, then in the end, the 'private' importer is left a out of the loop there. Ask yourself this - if you formed a relationship with a car dealer and had a nice automated process to get the cars to them and making a nice regular profit (and there was only so many you could sell), would you bother ****ing around with Joe Public complying his once off car and all his bitching when things go wrong? No.

I agree, Sounds like a couple of K well spent to me!!!!!

For some people, that is fine. For others like me, bugger that! And like I said, its just the option that most people want. I have always bought my cars privately, and have never needed a warranty or had any problems. Some people actually do have enough knowledge to not buy a lemon by spending some time learning about cars.

So whether its using the local private market, or going through the hefty import process (and no its not for everybody, otherwise dealers *would* have no hope), they want the option. The government is shutting down the options in their ultimate goal of shutting down the practice altogether if you ask me, step by step.

[Guest]

I think you should declare your interest...your obviously 'in the business' and have a vested interest in the matter.

My interest is not seeing people over and over being ripped off or sold dud cars and PRANK can back me up on that one.

Individuals will no longer be able to bid at auction since there's no gaurantee the RAW will agree to apply for import of the car that's purchased....in effect individuals would have to get prior approval from the RAW before bidding, but of course the RAW won't/can't give approval on something it hasn't seen yet......like that's going to work

Well I had to get permission off the RAW that complyied my Stagea, if you want to buy a car at auction sight unseen and then find a RAW to comply it, I would say that is game. Who would buy a car with no plate alocated, well some did that and had the cars in Japan for 12 months waiting for approval.

You've effectively admitted the price will go up by at least $1900 and probably a lot more because RAWS will claim that 'your getting a better car' - maybe...but maybe the individual would have liked to have the choice and satisfaction of buying the car themselves...I know I did.

The price difference is paying a broker to buying of a retail yard, it cost them the same to comply a car but they run the risk. You can have the satisfaction of buying your own car but what DOTR's say can come in and a car of better condition that is a safer car as what DOTR's want.

Individual choice goes out the window, but RAWS will be happy.

The RAW dosent choose the car's that can come in, the RAW is their to make sure a safe vehicle comes in and is complyied correctly, ask who ever does your side intrusion bars if he has liability insurance if you are in a accident.

I hope they are made even more accountable after this

The idea is to have somebody accountable if something goes wrong and it is a way to limit the older cars that come in like Mercs, BMW's and of course they (Toyota) dont want the 80 series Landcruiser coming in.

I just said I, as well as most people, would like the option to equitably still import a car privately if we wished so. The option is of course there to go ahead and do it privately, but I see what happening in the future is the number of avenues to do this becomes smaller and smaller. When they are smaller the choices decrease. Those with the money get what they want.

This is what DOTR's want less cars coming in and this is a way to do it.

what was being implied by a few was that in effect that RAWS would possibly get more money from a dealership to comply

The enthusiasts is who the RAW earns more money off now as a dealer goes well I will take 10 to 20 plates off you but I will pay $500 to $1000 less which is part of the profit margin.

We want cars to come in that were not released full volume to the market but for this to happen we have to do it as DOTR's tells us.

I have personal driven CPA cars, 15 year old import's and RAWS vehicles I bring in what I can within the rules.

I dont buy 15 year old cars but that is my personal choice which means I wont tell you what to drive or import, I will only tell you how to work with what ruleswe have.

The reason I started the thread was to inform people of the rulings not justify them, like I said dont shoot the mesenger or no messages will get through.

[SteveL]

My interest is not seeing people over and over being ripped off or sold dud cars and PRANK can back me up on that one.

I am sure you have the best of intentions, however the fact is you obviously have a 'thing' about brokers, and I strongly suspect they are also (at last partly) your 'competition'. No offence, but in my book that makes you biased to some extent.

Well I had to get permission off the RAW that complyied my Stagea, if you want to buy a car at auction sight unseen and then find a RAW to comply it, I would say that is game. Who would buy a car with no plate alocated, well some did that and had the cars in Japan for 12 months waiting for approval.

Your Stagea was brought in under SEVS, we're talking about changes to the 15yo rule here, which as it stands requires no RAWS involvement whatsover - to have RAWS involvement is a VERY BIG change. In fact your comments here relate to SEVS, not the 15yo rule. I reiterate, no individual will be able to bid at auction themselves under these new rules because the RAW ultimately has final say over application for import approval.

The price difference is paying a broker to buying of a retail yard, it cost them the same to comply a car but they run the risk. You can have the satisfaction of buying your own car but what DOTR's say can come in and a car of better condition that is a safer car as what DOTR's want.

It is still an extra cost that will be born by the customer in the end, and on top of that choice will be further limited driving prices up.

Oh, and a word on warranties - in Vic where I am, dealers are not obliged to provide a warranty on vehicles more than 10 years old, but of they decide to do so, the warranty usually has so much fine print attached it's not worth the paper it's written on - and it's not just me that says that, a host of independant motoring body also believe it to be the case (RACV, RACQ, etc....as well as the ACA).

The RAW dosent choose the car's that can come in, the RAW is their to make sure a safe vehicle comes in and is complyied correctly, ask who ever does your side intrusion bars if he has liability insurance if you are in a accident.

[sigh] ....but again I say that under these new rules you've provided in your first post, it is the RAW that applies for IA and therefore the RAW controls which cars are brought in...that MUST be the case if the number to be imported is limited.

In Vic, only Vicroads registered engineers can certify such modifications as intrusion bars, and by law they must have public liability insurance.

The idea is to have somebody accountable if something goes wrong and it is a way to limit the older cars that come in like Mercs, BMW's and of course they (Toyota) dont want the 80 series Landcruiser coming in.

See my comment about engineers above, it has the same relevance.

This is what DOTR's want less cars coming in and this is a way to do it.

Yes, unfortunately this is true

The enthusiasts is who the RAW earns more money off now as a dealer goes well I will take 10 to 20 plates off you but I will pay $500 to $1000 less which is part of the profit margin.

The above is relevant to SEVS, not the 15yo rules as they currently stand.

The reason I started the thread was to inform people of the rulings not justify them, like I said dont shoot the mesenger or no messages will get through.

Well I think you must have known when you put the original post across 5 different forums that it was going to produce a wide range of responses, plus you then reponded to some of those responses.....discussion is what forums like this are about.

[Guest]

I am sure you have the best of intentions, however the fact is you obviously have a 'thing' about brokers, and I strongly suspect they are also (at last partly) your 'competition'. No offence, but in my book that makes you biased to some extent.

Well I talk to different Brokers including Craig at J-Spec who I keep infomed on different points and I have told people to use his services, which it isnt about it is about the damaged cars that come in with a dent in the rail the size of a fist.

People who use a broker are not people who will buy a car retail it is a different market, dealers complain about them but as I say you wont sell a car to the same person who buys from a broker.

In Vic, only Vicroads registered engineers can certify such modifications as intrusion bars, and by law they must have public liability insurance.

I wish it was that way here and in other states, we have to get 15 year old cars signed off here and a couple of the RAWS put it forward that only a RAW can sign the vehicle off but what would somebody who only needs a Cert III in parts and admin know more than a mechanical engineer, they tryied to control it but that was stopped very quickly.

I know of two RAWS who will not sign off 15 year cars due to the liability and the cars that come in are not the best.

When the submissions were submitted it was limit the numbers or no cars at all will be allowed to come in.

I have explained to couple of people in the industry how to bring their own car in and give them different contacts in Japan and I am proud of the money they save on a very nice low klm car, it isnt for everybody but it will always happen.

I am not biased against brokers I am for people who bring in straight cars and who pay their bills.

It comes in to the shit happens factor and we have to work around what rules DOTR's make, the few people who were greedy have stuffed it up for the rest.

[Duncan]

Sorry DRIFTT one thing I am not clear from for your posts. Are you saying that

1) All cars, including 15yo, now and in the future, must be on the SEVS list to import?

2) Or that a RAW can apply to import an 15yo car?

3) Or that a RAW can apply to import any car made before 1990?

BTW for those saying a RAW can charge what it wants for these cars, that is of course incorrect. The market decides how mcuh they can charge. Yes the flood of older, interesting vehicles will stop, people will go back to buying rusty commodores instead

[Guest]

All cars made from Jan 1989 will have to be on the SEVS list, but people are working on getting all the documens ready for those cars people will want, Aristo, Cefiro and so on. It is only a form to get on the list but somebody has to put it in.

A RAW will submit the import approval for any car built after Jan 1989 and they can only do 100 per year which will keep numbers low but it was that or not at all.

Before 1989 we didnt question as we didnt want to ask to much.

And the market will always decide what they can charge, R33 Skyline compliance is a perfect example, a lot of people can do it and the price is quite low, only one can do EVO 7 and only one can do RX7 and the prices are quite high.

[insanenissan]

so R32 gtst 1989 models wont be aloud in, or will be? THEY BETTER BE OR THEY SHALL DIE AND SH*T!

[insanenissan]

so R32 gtst 1989 models wont be aloud in, or will be? THEY BETTER BE OR THEY SHALL DIE AND SH*T!

[RiverSide]

I have to ask..........where did you get this information from? Why were you the "chosen one" to be privy to such information?

I have as yet not been sent any correspondance from Dotars etc. When i do i am sure it will be more clearly stated.

There also seems to be alot of talk about later model SEVS vehicles in this thread.......the vehicles currently on the SEVS list will NOT be removed etc. At least not until the goverment can devise a way to eliminate importation of motor vehicles entirely.

End rant

[Guest]

I have to ask..........where did you get this information from? Why were you the "chosen one" to be privy to such information?

I have as yet not been sent any correspondance from Dotars etc. When i do i am sure it will be more clearly stated.

There also seems to be alot of talk about later model SEVS vehicles in this thread.......the vehicles currently on the SEVS list will NOT be removed etc. At least not until the goverment can devise a way to eliminate importation of motor vehicles entirely.

End rant

We are not the chosen one's we have been around long enough to know the right people and were at the right place at the right time.

We want more vehicles added not remove them.

And dont worry about your R32's, look at http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/sevs/sevsindex.htm before you worry what can come in and what cant.

[RiverSide]

I am in no way concerned......as either way R32's plates are already available under SEVS.

As far as my comment regarding SEVS is concered........i was simply wondering why everyone was asking about it, as this ruling will NOT effect vehicles currently available.

Also......may i ask who "WE" is? ie: WE know the right people..WE were in the right place etc. I am not trying to start a shitfight at all, i simply find it odd that this information has been released to certain people prior to an "official" announcement.

[someonestolecc]

DRIFTT,

People seem to be sus and bitchy at you for some reason. I for one say thanks for the info.

Everyone else should just either choose not to believe this info, take it with a grain of salt, believe it wholly, mental note it (like i did) or whatever.... but damnnnnn why badger him about every little thing.

[Guest]

I dont realy give two shits if they belive me or not, but when it comes out I will be right and we will be lucky or I will be wrong and 15 year imports wont exist.

Either way it dosent bother me as I wont lose sleep or money.

I thought the forums were used to help others.