Should the new trader system stay?

[predator]

yeah, I think the new system has many advantages.. but oh well, looks like its the old system back we go. People will just keep whingeing if its left.

No point fixing the current system - don't think anybody even gave a chance to get used to it, or see the future potential minus bugs

Just need a few rules like:

* no request for pics (if they have them they'll be uploaded)

* no bump for 24 (48?) hours

* no posting in trader section unless registered for more than 30 days (will stop those that come to post an ad, then never come back, and wanna-be business posts)

* some type of basic trader rating

And the old ones... etc

You could also probably modify the "thread list" to include a thumbnail if available too... just involves some VBB hacking. I guess that was my favourite feature of the new one.

[Oosh]

It might'd hurt to try modelling the rules and enforcement on OCAU.

http://forums.overclockers.com.au they use standard VBulletin and their trading forums are much more active than here and work VERY well in my personal experience.

If you have trouble accessing it (you have to be a member for 90 days, anotehr idea which isn't so bad) i can get hold of them.

[ed]

from OCAU

NO NEW ITEMS

NO SELLING FOR FRIENDS - If you do not own it, you can't sell it!

No Mod-Chipped Consoles - We don't care if it is legal or not, its not allowed here!

No Mod Chips

No Backup Games

No Free Bumps

Excessive bumping WILL result in the thread being closed!

If you have a stupid thread title (example: ****SALE SALE HOT STUFF*****) it WILL be closed!

eBay/Sold/Other site links are not allowed.

If you are selling goods on other sites, please don't offer it for sale here.

No "Possible Sales" - If it is not for sale right now, don't post it!

No selling firearms

No selling alcohol

No selling of pornography

No group buys (unless authorised by Agg)

No selling Engineering Sample CPU's

If an administrator edits your thread, do not delete their comments.

[Skyrine-Dave]

NO NEW ITEMS

...Snip....

No selling alcohol

No selling of pornography

...Snip....

Pffftttt what kinda rules are they :headspin:

I dont really like the idea of thumbnails, cuz if a user doesnt post then u get that homo 'no image to display' and the rule about not asking for pics is lame.

Sometimes a user will post stuff for sale and forget to put pics.

It should be a rule that if you are selling something you MUST include a pic... sooner or later.

or rather, pics can be requested if not posted, but once pics are availablke they are posted into the original post instead of emailed to individuals.

[funkymonkey]

i could make a very simple vb hack that allows you to give the location of a couple of files when you make a thread, and if you add images to your post then it boldifies it when listing it, giving people an incentive to add pics if they want people to notice it.

[justinfox]

I can't EDIT my ads!!! I have tried a few times now and on different browsers too. Just will not let me edit my advertisement (trying to reduce the price of goods here!!!).

[predator]

yeah, the template is broken... don't blame me I didn't touch that one!

[Oosh]

No new items was to encourage people to sponsor the site the others are a liability issue.

As i said it might'd hurt to BASE rules/guidelines, they've been active for 5+yrs and have some experience, why reinvent the wheel?

I've spoken to Baker who has pulled together most of the rules and he's fine with SAU using them and me reproducing them so long there's some SMALL amount of credit given if they are used, e.g. "Based on OCAU Trading Rules", just as a courtesy.

Since we already have the first post:

Site policies and rules

Offering things for sale is permitted on an "occasional" basis by private individuals only, not vendors or professional traders (apart from OCAU Sponsors).  

Edit Nov 03: This includes bulk sales of multiple items. A couple of fans etc for sale privately is allowed. Bulk sales for systems, laptops, major componants, phones is classified as commercial and will be deleted unless approved by Agg and you're a forum sponsor. There is also a trend to sell a couple of items then starting a new thread with more of the same. Expect these to be deleted. Link HERE  

These policies are actively enforced:

Selling firearms is Prohibited

Selling alcohol is Prohibited

Selling equipment/software circumventing a TPM

No selling for Friends

Selling OEM Software is Prohibited

No feedback about members/vendors

No selling of new goods

No group buys (unless authorised by Agg)

New items for sale may only be posted by persons or vendors  

who are current OCAU advertisers or sponsors (List here)

eBay/Sold/Other site links are not allowed.

If you're selling goods elsewhere, please don't offer it for sale here.

Selling of adult only content (including pornography, and anything else prohibited to minors) is not allowed, as the age of the purchaser cannot be determined.

No selling Engineering Sample CPU's

Selling items featuring chips/mod chips/modded consoles/backup games or similar items, is not allowed.

Try to be considerate with the number of threads you have running. Do not open a new thread for each item. Obviously some items are better on their own, but, where possible list all items of a similar nature ie computer parts in one thread only.

If you do have more than one thread running at one time try not to bump them all together so that you have a few on the first page, try to stagger the times for the bumps where possible.

If an administrator edits out an item in your thread, or even if he/she fixes your links, please do not edit out their comments. They were made for a reason, and it's not your place to un-make them. Just leave them be.

If you read here it is illegal to even own an Engineering Sample if you dont have a Intel NDA agreement.  

"OWNERSHIP. All right, title and interest in the intellectual property embodied in the Pre-Release Product, Pre-Release Software and accompanying materials, if any, are owned by Intel or its suppliers and licensors and may be protected by copyright, trademark, patent and trade secret law and international treaties. Any rights, express or implied, in the intellectual property embodied in the foregoing, other than those specified in this Agreement, are reserved by Intel and its suppliers and licensors. Nothing in this Agreement shall constitute a license of all or any part of the Pre-Release Product or of any right to sell, make, or have made the Pre-Release Product. You will keep the Pre-Release Product free of liens, attachments, and other encumbrances. You agree not to remove any proprietary notices and/or any labels from the Pre-Release Product and accompanying materials, if any (including but not limited to the engineering sample label), without prior written approval by Intel.

Selling firearms is prohibited:

The sale of firearms and ammunition is prohibited because we cannot be certain that the legal requirements are being met.

The following is an extract from the Federal Attorney-General's Guide on Firearms

Who can sell or advertise firearms?

Sales, including mail order sales of firearms, may only be conducted by or through licensed firearms dealers. Advertisement of firearms for sale will be prohibited unless the sale is to be conducted by or through a licensed gun dealer. Dealers will be required to ensure that purchasers are appropriately licensed, and record and maintain details (type, make, calibre, serial number) of each firearm purchased or sold against the identity (name, address, licence number) of the seller or the purchaser. Dealers will be required to provide records to licensing authorities. Commercial transport of ammunition in the same consignment with firearms will be prohibited. In remote areas where licensed gun dealers may not be readily available, special arrangements will be made to facilitate sales and purchases of firearms and ammunition.

Selling equipment/software circumventing a TPM

Recently the Copyright Act has been amended to incorporate provisions dealing with equipment or software whose primary purpose is to circumvent a Technical Prevention Measure (TPM). OCAU cannot risk allowing the trade of such software or devices, nor equipment in which they are an integral component. Consequently sales of such devices will be closed.

Selling for others

Selling on behalf of other people is not allowed under any circumstances. If they want to sell something they can sign up and observe the 90 day rule.

Selling OEM Software

Microsoft OEM, Licensing, Transfer Information for Selling, Using and re-selling Software.  

Click here for a downloadable Microsoft Word Document with all the details you will need. This document has been approved by Microsoft for publishing.

No selling of new goods

Unless you are a site sponsor, you are currently not permitted to sell brand new items on these forums. Unused items are also considered to be brand new, as they have not been used, even if the box has been opened or the plastic wrap has been taken off. Sales of such items will be closed.

eBay/Sold/Other site sales

Links to auctions/sales on other sites such as eBay, Sold, etc are not permitted. If you are selling something, either sell it here, or don't talk about it here.

Selling on Other Sites

If you are selling something, either sell it here, or don't talk about it here.

[Oosh]

More, in regard to electrical items, possibly irrelevant to SAU

Importing, C-tick and A-tick

The short answer about C-Ticks and A-ticks is that most electrical and electronic products that are placed on the Australian Market for use in the domestic, commercial and light industrial environments are required to be marked with the C-tick compliance mark to indicate that they comply with Australian Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Standards.  

The onus for demonstrating compliance falls on suppliers, i.e. manufacturers, for products manufactured in Australia, and importers, for products manufactured overseas. The compliance process is by way of making a declaration, for each particular product to be placed on the Australian market, that it meets the applicable EMC standard. The declaration must be held by the supplier in a compliance folder for possible audit by the ACA. Along with the compliance mark the product must be marked to identify the suppler, i.e. with the supplier's ABN.

There are three compliance levels depending on the level of risk the product poses of causing interference to other electrical of electronic products. At level 1 C-ticking is voluntary and testing is not mandatory, at level 2 a copy of a test report must be included in the compliance folder but it is not mandatory that the test report be obtained from an accredited test laboratory (test reports to equivalent European Standards are also accepted), while at level three it is mandatory to obtain a test report from an accredited laboratory (this may be overseas).

It is an offence to supply a product to the Australian market without being C-tick marked, if the legislation requires that it be so marked. It is also an offence, of course, to fraudulently apply the C-tick mark.

Full details of the EMC compliance arrangements may be found on the ACA's web site at http://www.aca.gov.au/standards/emc/emc.htm

Because the offence provisions apply to suppliers, it is unlikely that the forum organisers are liable as a result of the use of the forums to sell non-compliant equipment. However, you should be aware that intentionally aiding the commission of a crime is an offence under the Commonwealth Criminal Code Act 1995.

[Oosh]

Some general advice for online trading.

Precautions to take when buying/selling.

Please note: Neither OCAU nor its owners or administrators play any role in any sales. The following list of precautions are not guidelines, merely a list of things you may, or may not want to do.

1. Contact the buyer (or seller) via PM, and ask for their Full name, current address and email, current home phone number, and current mobile telephone number. Ring both, and double check that person exists at both numbers. Cross check the addresses in the white pages and (if possible) match the home phone numbers. Check that the email works. If they are a business, get their ABN and Fax no. too. In a worse case scenario, this info is essential. If the person sounds young, maybe even a parents work no., mobile no., or consent.  

If the number is private, it won't be in the white pages. Its up to you then to trust them on their own accord. It's also worth checking if a mobile phone number is pre-paid or on a plan. Pre-paids are usually not liable to give valid details when signing up, people on plans do.

2. Ask the buyer/seller if they've traded with anyone else before, and get in contact with them to see what they thought of the trader.

3. If you are the buyer, get the users bank details - Account Name, BSB Number and Account number. If possible, ask for the branch name. It is possible to get the Branch name and location out of the BSB - ring any bank and ask. Cross check this with the address. It IS possible they have made an account in another state, then moved, but again, thats up to you to base on trust. Ring the bank and check the account is valid. Keep all receipt numbers of sent money. Then rectify that money was sent, by asking the seller for the transaction number.

If you are the seller, do not send anything out until the money is in your account and cleared. As simple as it sounds, I've noticed a lot of people have sent goods and not waited for money to clear. Do not send if postage costs are missing, the amount is incorrect or only partially sent. If you need the extra precaution as a seller, ask for their bank details too. Its extra collateral if the case comes down to a scam - the feds or local police will be able to get a lot of information out of a valid bank account. Check with the bank to see if its valid. Gather receipt numbers of sent monies.

If you are really paranoid - Escrow is another choice. Basically, it involves a trusted third party company, which inserts a middle man into the transaction. You send the money and the goods to the escrow, and the escrow sends the money and goods to the appropriate people. If you take this option it might be a fair idea to split the costs between both parties.

4. If you are selling, pack the goods properly. Nothing is worse then recieving a $400 OEM Geforce in a tiny little plastic bag. Measure the boxes/goods, then get the postage costs. Add on a few bucks, and get some decent bubble wrap and box. Use registered post, since they chuck on insurance for free, keep all reciept no.s and post. If they ask for express post, clarify with them. If they ask for a courier, ask specifically which company. If they offer a tracing service, use it. Basically, make sure you have some sort of insurance or genuine way to back up the delivery. Because if it fails, its your arse. Take responsibility for damaged goods.

If you are buying, make sure you choose a decent type of delivery method to avoid trouble. Avoid normal post at all costs. There is no guarantee you will recieve it, no insurance and up to a weeks wait. Express post is a bit better - its guaranteed next day, they have a small type of tracking system (good luck though), and its only a few dollars more. Registered Post is easily the best service from Auspost - They have up to $100 free insurance (more if you pay a little bit), proper tracking system, and it really doesn't cost that much.  

Couriers are different matters. Both can cost quite a hefty fee, depending on how big the goods are and where they are going. Companies like Australia Post, FedEx, Mayne Logistics all offer pickup and deliver to the door services. If your goods MUST arrive at a certain time, date, hour - couriers are the best way to go, if you are willing to pay.

5. If there are any problems - consult the buyer directly FIRST. Ring them up, send an email, send them a PM. Don't fight about it in the public forums, it brings other people into it and makes it a huge scene. If you have taken all the precautions noted by now, the person would either be a REALLY fantastic scammer, or simply just made a mistake. Rectify everything carefully, and dont hestitate to call the police if weeks pass and you hear nothing. You do not have to sit by and be ripped off.

A few useful thing to remember when concidering purchasing an item:

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

[Horus]

I reckon it should stay cos Gordo did it

nah seriously I find it a lot easier to use than the older one, maybe I am autistic or something

[predator]

too right Horus

Ooch.. what drugs are you on? anybody can go to overclockers and go read those for themselves.. They work, but I'd hardly say they are the bastian of internet trading rules. I reckon the auction process on their with "Instant" and "Reserve" is a bit stupid to be honest.

Some are worth taking onboard though.

[dojobi]

I like the new system, but it seems like it's impossible to bump with it. e.g. I've got my car up for sale, but I posted it when the classifieds were still quite new and people weren't looking there. So, I don't think many people have seen my ad (or I'm asking too much hehe). I'd like to push my ad to the front page, but can't afaik. Is this possible with the new system?

If so, then I'm all for it, otherwise I'll have to put in a vote for the old system.

[Oosh]

too right Horus

Ooch.. what drugs are you on? anybody can go to overclockers and go read those for themselves.. They work, but I'd hardly say they are the bastian of internet trading rules. I reckon the auction process on their with "Instant" and "Reserve" is a bit stupid to be honest.

Some are worth taking onboard though.

Actually, as i mentioned earlier, they can't because you need to be a member for 90 days before you're allowed in to the trading forums.

[MarkG]

I prefer the new system, PROVIDED that the seller puts up a pic.

[mist]

I like the new system, but it seems like it's impossible to bump with it. e.g. I've got my car up for sale, but I posted it when the classifieds were still quite new and people weren't looking there. So, I don't think many people have seen my ad (or I'm asking too much hehe). I'd like to push my ad to the front page, but can't afaik. Is this possible with the new system?

If so, then I'm all for it, otherwise I'll have to put in a vote for the old system.

i agree, the new system is alright, just need to be able to bump the post. don't know if that is possible with the new system, but it would help a lot if we could. also, would like to attach more than 3 pics so that i can sell everything in one post and display all my junk.

if we go back to the old system, that is fine too, it worked alright

1 problem i seem to be having is that i'm logged in to the classified section in Mozilla Firefox (web browser), and i cannot log in to the classified section in Internet Explorer : tells me invalid username, pls register lol.

[dojobi]

mist, I've got no problems here with Firefox/IE. I don't think being logged in with FF would affect IE at all. They should be totally separate.

[mist]

yeah? thats what i would think... but for some reason, that's the problem that i've been having - it's been going on for a couple of weeks now i think. weird...

[FullMetal]

I think both systems are good. The new one looks simple but as the number of items grow, I think it will get quite messy as there will be so many pages. It also doesnt have what state in the main section so you gotta click the ad to find out. Good thing about it is that people cant bump

The old one is good as it is simple to use as almost every other forum has a for sale section like it. New posts are also easier to see and like everyone else said, there is more seller/buyer interaction

Oh well... looks like the old system is gonna take over again

[sewid]

Thanks for restoring the old ForSale forums Prank.

Let us know if you need any help keeping order in there.