VERY high oil temps on track HELP!!!!

[Sydneykid]

interesting SK.

when you say the RHS vent, do you mean drivers side or passenger side? is it the same in R33 GTR?

RHS = drivers side, when the steering wheel is on the RHS.

LHS = passengers side, when the steering wheel is on the RHS.

But there are readers in the US and other countries, where the steering wheel is on the LHS, so I try not to use "drivers side" as it just confuses them.

The air inlet to the turbos is on the LHS, logically that is where you would put the ambient air intake for the engine. So the oil cooler goes on the other (RHS).

There is no difference between R32/33/34 GTR's in that regard.

Hope that clarifies:cheers:

[Sydneykid]

LOL...GTR turbs are oil cooled palin bearing turbos which is why i sometimes think ppl get carried away with the water cooled, ball bearing turbo thing.  

Of course they are better, but so much that Nissan don’t use them on their prermiere performance model? (Along with EVOs/Porsches etc etc)

It would appear as far as oil temps and track work there is a BIG difference

Ahh yes, but the premier GTR (the R34 N1) has ball bearing turbos, so maybe Nissan learnt something between 1989 and 1999.

[ferni]

So in a aussie/jap car drivers side is where you put the oil cooler?

Mine is in the passenger side, as i think most of the others i have seen are as well in R33 GTR's? confused now...

[Laurence]

Well I would think the main reason they wouldn't put them in the RHS is because of the BOV's but you can actually fit it in front of them

Also the oil filter attaches on the right side of the engine so it makes piping less long/hard.

Though that said NOTHING is easy in a GTR engine bay.

[Roy]

I don’t think it really matters, there is the issue of extra braid being extra cost and also extra weight, but then again its also extra volume of oil so?!?!?!?!?

As long as its in a location where it can be fully drained, so don’t mount the thing with inlet and outlet pointing up…otherwise you will have 1L of old oil every time you try to change engine oil…and its in a location where it gets a good supply of airflow without interrupting another support system that needs ambient air.

[Duncan]

Justin I suspect the answer is above, franks on these forums had the same problem with an HKS oil cooler (maybe this is the same coola rofl). Thermostat might be stuck closed so no oil is ever going to the oil cooler. To check when the temps are over say 110 just see if the cooler is warm (don't know about touching 100o but you should be able to tell).

If it is dead cold oil is not getting to the cooler

[Emre]

LOL...GTR turbs are oil cooled palin bearing turbos which is why i sometimes think ppl get carried away with the water cooled, ball bearing turbo thing.  

Ahem... All GTR turbos are water cooled mate, even the RB25DET ones AFAIK.

Also, you don't want the whole system to drain when engine stops. Otherwise, you will have to prime up all that volume, each time you start your car.

Ferni,

HKS designed its oil coolers to fit on the passanger side, just a little extra hose length, that's all.

Trust have some kits that fit on the driver's side but it requires you to change your BOVs to a single Trust item.

[Roy]

Ahem... All GTR turbos are water cooled mate, even the RB25DET ones AFAIK.

Also, you don't want the whole system to drain when engine stops. Otherwise, you will have to prime up all that volume, each time you start your car.  

Ferni,

HKS designed its oil coolers to fit on the passanger side, just a little extra hose length, that's all.

Trust have some kits that fit on the driver's side but it requires you to change your BOVs to a single Trust item.

Yeh Emre, im happy to be corrected but i think you will find that R32 GTR and R33 turbs are not water cooled, and are plain bearing turbos. I dont own a GTR, never played with the turbos on one, but thats what i was told by a person who should know better then to talk about crap he isnt sure of...so if im wrong about the water coolign thing then sorry, but im 99.9% sure they are plain bearing, and dont even 360degree thrust bearings at that.

RB20 and RB25DET turbos are water cooled and ball bearing turbos.

LOL...ive been drinking again:( Let me explain myslef properly:)

With the draining thing i wasnt talking about when you change the engine oil, not turn the car off. When you change the oil you want to be sure you have fully drained the sump and oil cooler of old oil. Teh orientation of the oil cooler can make this hard if the inlet outlet point upwards and arent free draining.

[knore]

Hi all,  

I have an R32 GT-R and track it very often. I have installed an HKS oil cooler with remote filter mount and the last 3 track days I saw oil temps of 130!!!!

I get 1 warmup lap in, and then 3-4 very hard hot laps in the temps soar up to 130 forcing me to come back in to pit lane whilst other people stay out in the session for at least another 4 laps more than myself. (Eastern Creek).  

Any ideas? Are all GT-R's like this? ie: 5 hot laps and you have to come back in to cool down?

Any suggestions? It's a pretty big HKS cooler, near radiator, cost me $800 2nd hand.  

Thanks in advance for any help!!!

What oil are you using?

[justinfox]

Castrol fully synthetic.

[Ronin 09]

I have experienced the 130 degree track action. My serck is mounted in the LHS vent.

Might sound stupid, but what about a oil cooler water spray? Should work in theory...

PS should merge the two oil cooler discussion threads.

[Sydneykid]

I have experienced the 130 degree track action. My serck is mounted in the LHS vent.

Is it ducted to ensure that ALL the air that comes in the vent goes though the cooler? Have you opened up the exit vents in the plastic inner guard panel?

[Emre]

Yeh Emre, im happy to be corrected but i think you will find that R32 GTR and R33 turbs are not water cooled, and are plain bearing turbos.  I dont own a GTR, never played with the turbos on one, but thats what i was told by a person who should know better then to talk about crap he isnt sure of...so if im wrong about the water coolign thing then sorry, but im 99.9% sure they are plain bearing, and dont even 360degree thrust bearings at that.

RB20 and RB25DET turbos are water cooled and ball bearing turbos.

LOL...ive been drinking again:( Let me explain myslef properly:)  

With the draining thing i wasnt talking about when you change the engine oil, not turn the car off. When you change the oil you want to be sure you have fully drained the sump and oil cooler of old oil. Teh orientation of the oil cooler can make this hard if the inlet outlet point upwards and arent free draining.

They are water cooled plain bearing turbos with 270 degree thrust bearings.

I didn't know RB20 and 25 turbos were ball bearing, are you sure on that one...?

Regarding the oil drain :

When you stop the engine, the oil settles down.

If you have an oil cooler fitted and all the oil drained back to the sump, than when you crank the engine again, that empty volume has to be filled before oil starts circulating again. Plain and simple.

The trade off is, the old oil sitting in the system during an oil change, The amount of oil left back depends on the size of your cooler core and the length of your hoses. In the case of the HKS cooler, this amount is a little larger because of longer hoses.

If you want to drain all the oil from the system, put a drain plug on the bottom of your core, or disconnect the hoses.

[Sydneykid]

RB20DET and RB25DET (both Neo and non Neo) turbos are ball bearing.

The oil does not drain back into my sumps when I turn my engines off. They get oil pressure on initial cranking, that would not be possible if it drained back. Plus where does the air come from to replace the oil in the cooler? There is no air feed possible, the oil pump is fed from the pickup which is immersed in oil and the other side of the cooler is plumbed into the oil galleries which are filled with oil and higher than the oil cooler. So the oil won't drain up wards or past the oil pump or leave a partial vacuum in the cooler.

[Roy]

If you want to drain all the oil from the system, put a drain plug on the bottom of your core, or disconnect the hoses.

Yeh...LOL thats what im saying:) If you disconnet the hoses you can drain the lines which is cool but then you have a dirty big 19 row oil cooler that has old oil in it which has to be drained. Hence my comment about having it so that when you discoinnet a hose the cooler gravity drains?!!?!?!?!!?

I have been told some Toyota coolers come with a drain bung, but i dotn have any compressed air or taps so wasnt keen on drilling and tapping my core due to not beign able to get swarf out of it...but i think that is a neater solution.

If doing this is a bad idea then ill stop doing it. I fully drain sump, lines and cooler. Then i throw 5L of fresh oil in my engine. Turn it over run it for 30seconds...stop it then add another 750ml-1L to top it up properly...the thing doesnt make any strange noises, gets oil pressure as quickly as it normally does and i have a completely fresh supply of oil.

If im out smarting myself here and there is somehting im missing then let me know...please:(

[Sydneykid]

That's OK Roy, but if you really want to drain the oil completely, then i would suggest pulling the spark plugs and building oil pressure on the starter motor. Then you are quite safe.

I haven't measured this is in an RB engine, but I have in a couple of others and found that there is far more oil trapped in the engine itself (particularly cam covers) that doesn't get changed. Oil coolers look like they hold a lot, but they are mostly fins, the actual oil retained is quite small. If you change the oil often, as is usually the case with circuit use, I really don't know how much you achieve.

That said I have a friend who does "double" oil changes, he drains the old oil (5,000 ks') changes the oil filter, adds new oil, and runs the engine for 5 minutes. He then drains the oil again, changes the filter and fills it with new oil. He reckons that's the only way to do a complete oil change. I think he is crazy, but he is now on his third high performance car that has done over 250,000 k's without any engine work. Even when he gets a new car, he lets the dealer do the oil changes, then he does it again as soon as he gets home.

He reckons I only do "half" an oil change, hell maybe he's right:cheers:

[franks]

hrmmmm the oil cooler not working issue - sounds very familiar!!!!!! i'll give you my experience with my dilemna's....

i had the exact same symptoms as you, run 3 or 4 hot laps and oil temps would soar to 130 degrees...i had a trust-grex oil cooler unit with thermostat. only my problem was easily identifiable, the oil cooler core wasn't getting hot at all.

i personally would leave the thermostat on because getting oil temps up to regular operating temperatures is hard, especially if your car is a daily driver - i have issues with oil not working at normal operating temperature.

if you have a thermostat, from your engine block you should have two hoses running from oil filter mount to a relocated sandwich plate and oil filter and then two hoses from your sandwich plate to the oil cooler core.

from the engine block, try to identify which hose is the "OUT" hose. i did this by going for hard drives, opening the bonnet and physically touching holding them - if neither of these hoses are hot to touch then its obvious the hose is blocked from the block!

a couple of problems can be identified here:

1. your thermostat on your sandwich plate could be stuck closed - it should open and allow oil to flow through to the oil cooler core at certain temperatures.

2. your IN and OUT hoses from your engine block may be incorrectly plumbed to the sandwich plate - the sandwich plate should have IN and OUT markings on it.

if both your oil filter is hot and your hoses are plumbed correctly, then check the hoses running from your sandwich plate to your oil cooler core. again there will be markings on your sandwich plate indicating IN and OUT.

one hose should obviously be hotter than the other, if neither of them are hot then it will be either of the sandwich plate problem aforementioned, otherwise it may be incorrect plumbing from your sandwich plate to your core or you could have a blocked hose.

Pull both hoses off the core and see if you get oil pumping through any of them whilst the engine is turning over (this could get messy). if its only dribbling through then you have a sandwich plate problem - oil should be screaming through.

if you dont have a thermostat, the plumbing will be totally different. you'll have one hose from the engine block going to your sandwich plate and oil filter and another one going directly to your oil cooler core. i think this is an easier system to identify your problem.

for me, i replaced my trust/grex sandwich plate with an Earls unit to get rid of the thermostat. a few joiners later and the oil cooler core was getting hot like it should be.

after identifying the IN and OUT markings on the back of my trust/grex sandwich plate i realised what my dumbf*&$ lazy mechanic never bothered checking and that is the plumbing was incorrect...

HTH.

[Ronin 09]

Is it ducted to ensure that ALL the air that comes in the vent goes though the cooler?  Have you opened up the exit vents in the plastic inner guard panel?

Thanks SK, the cooler basically takes up the whole of the vent, so there is nowhere else for the air to go. We've cut about 5 40mm circular holes out of the guard panel, and the undertray panel directly behind the cooler... maybe I should cut out more and mesh it?

[ferni]

Sorry, so did we get a certain answer, GTR turbos are or aren't water cooled?

[Emre]

Yes they are.

Roy was in tune to 'In Dreams' by Roy Orbison.