wanna get over 350rwkw?

[performance-wise]

OK. I wanna get over 250kw out of my R33 gtst.

I would like to interact with SAU members so they can throw some ideas and tips from their expereinces and knowledge, which will help me decide on the best way to acheive my goal.

I am not loaded with $$$ so it will take a while. Each time I complete a mod I will post the results.

In a way, it will be a type of project car - upgraded with the most popular and proven products to use for the mods from fellow forum users.

All opinions will be considered and hopefully debated for the best result.

I am a newbie to forums and a newbie to performance cars and so far I am loving it.

Thought this would be the best way to gain the info that I need to complete my goal without starting a hundred threads.

Heres some details;

-1993 series 1 R33 gtst rb25det in gun metal grey.

- imported into Australia 9 months ago totally stock except for the rims (FR - 17" 235/45 & BCK - 17" 255/40) and brake pads (ebc blue stuffs)

Mods so far in order;

-Exhaust - 3" stainless front/dump pipe, stanless high flow cat, 3" stainless back pipe, stainless 4.5 inch tip.

-Filter - HKS super power flow pod

-Timer - apexi

-front strut brace - generic brand

-Blow off Valve - HKS super sequential

-Computer - apexi power fc and commander

The most recent addition is the computer (only 2 days before starting this thread) I have attached the dyna readouts from when I got the power fc installed and tuned on the 19/11/04.

Feel free to let me know if I could have done things differently, or if anyone has any similar expereinces to share.

Dyna results before power fc install = 150.2rwkw

Dyna results after power fc install and tune = 183.3rwkw

thanx in advance.

[Blitz]

Being on a budget and chasing 350 reliable rwkw from an RB25DET is a tall order.

You will need strengthened internals to sustain that power level with reliability.

May I ask where you plucked the "350kw" figure from? did you just decide that you want that magic number?

Nick

[LANFOH]

An expensive project, definitely, maybe cheaper to transplant a lightly tweaked rb26dett. You will pushing the internals and support systems above and beyond their limit, and you would probably want to upgrade those standard brakes as well as your suspension . But none the less prob doable, Those dudes from Japanese Motorsport in Adelaide made a f;;;kn wicked red drifter with a Neo engine conversion with about 300rwkw. :headspin: :headspin: :headspin:

[R31Nismoid]

aim for 270-300rwkw. Thats much more achieveable cost-vs-cost

just get a rebuilt bottom end, Arias pistons, GTR rods, N1 Oil pump etc etc.

Get a nice GT30 - 600HP with the 6 blade wheel/.82 rear housing.

And you'll need a manifold too.

after that (which is just the motor side)

Decent front mount

PowerFC

740cc injectors (only cause they are a straight easy fit)

Big fuel pump

brakes

suspension

diff - the stock LSD i doubt will hold up for too long

clutch

tyres

all of this is going to easily tip you over 12-15k before you even blink.

And there will be other things ive missed for sure.

So if your not loaded with $$$ it's going to take you many years indeed.

i've spent over 10k on mine - 270rwkw... with room for more if i feel like getting off my butt and getting a fuel pump

[Bass Junky]

How about this.

Take your car to a reputable workshop, ask them to give you a price for your car to make 350rwkW.

Sit down.

Take price given down to your friendly bank manager. Get a non-secured loan against that value.

Take wad of cash to reputable workshop.

Leave car for one month.

Return to beast of a car which will most likely break traction well through 3rd and possibly 4th gear.

YEEE HAA.

Speed costs money, How fast do you want to go?

BASS OUT

[fatz]

first up get a second blow off valve

[Cubes]

If you are serious about your goal and not just being gr33dy hehe then expect to spend big $$.

You are going to need a motor built to handle the power if you want it to be reliable.

- I would look at dropping the RB26 internals in to the RB25 block with a set of prepped RB26 rods & forged pistons using a comp ratio of around 8.5:1.

At this power level every little bit of cubic inches you can get your hands on will make a difference to the way the car drives.

Go for forged rods if you can afford the extra $1300-$1800.

~$4500-5000 with prepped rods

~$6000-$7000 with forged rods.

- Rebuild the RB25 head & do the usual port/polish/match work and bolt in a set of mild 260duration cams.

~$2500 for the rebuild, port/polish and cams.

- Get your self a set of 550cc & fuel pressure reg or a set of 600cc injectors.

~$900

- Big bosch fuel pump

~$400

- A good FMIC with 2.5"-3" piping.

~$1500

- Some new Engine & Gearbox mounts as you will need them.

~$300

- Greedy Plenum

~$1500

- Mechanical Diff (The stocker will soon turn in to a single spinner)

~$1000-$1500

- Twin Plate Clutch

~$1000-$2700 (Depending if the second hand needs a rebuild or if you go new)

- Turbo to suit the power level

~$3000

- Exhaust manifold & external gate

~$2000-$2500

- 3.5" Exhaust

~$700-$1600 (Depending if you can find something second hand)

- Decent tyres as to attempt to get the power to the ground (Toyo RA1 or RE55S)

~ $1200-$1400

I think I'll stop there.....

How much did you pay for the car?

All that adds up to $20,000-$25,000. lol

You could probably get away with saving a few thousand dollars (i.e no cams or head rebuild) but I think you get the drift. Its going to cost big $$.

Up to 300rwkw is fairly reliable and cost affective.

Especially for the street, you won't be bitching as much about it lagging up or wheel spinning once it is on boost.

I would tend to stick with the stock 9:1 comp ratio and drop in a set of 260duration cams (lowers the dynamic comp ratio to a safer level).

Lowering the static comp by using thicker headgaskets works well but removes the benifits of the quench. (The motor will use more fuel & make less power in the mid range, detonation will most probably occur just as easily with the higher comp but with a set of cams, its a bit of trial and error)

I would go the cams first see how it works, it should work well and give you more power/economy.

Strap on a decent turbo to make 280-300rwkw (HKS 2835S or HKS3037S), FMIC, replace exhaust if its not free flowing (hence quiet), injectors & fuel pump.

That should get you a reliable 280-300rwkw that will spin up in 3rd no problemo..

[Nismo_Boy]

With out trying to start a shit fight, have you ever been in a 350rwkw+ car? or even driven one? For all I know you may be the worlds best driver.. But Having had a car with this power out put in the past, my only advice is find one with similar power, and go for a drive, and I’m 90% sure you'll go for a safer power goal, and move up from that in the future.

[LANFOH]

I know I shouldnt really say this, but if you are looking for that kind of speed maybe you should buy a super bike ie Yamaha R1, Suzuki Hayabusa??

[Cubes]

It is a little bit of a fantasy land post as generally 350rwkw or even 300rwkw build ups start from 180rwkw then its like yer lets get a highflow then its 240-250rwkw then its hey lets get a bigger turbo again .. then its 270-280rwkw then its motor pop.. Oh well rebuild with nice pistons.. lets push it to 300rwkw and on it goes.

So far I've spent around $7000-$8000 and haven't even got the turbo yet!!!

Even when I do max power I am after is 300rwkw as anything more and the 3ltr may become a bit to hard to get the power to the ground.

A smaller motor starts to have problems getting power to the ground even earlier as they are less linear and more snappy.

I don't want high power dyno queen crap.. As Long as I have a massive mid range that makes you feel sick upon acceleration (now who's dreaming) I will be happy.

[Trust33]

It is a little bit of a fantasy land post as generally 350rwkw or even 300rwkw build ups start from 180rwkw then its like yer lets get a highflow then its 240-250rwkw then its hey lets get a bigger turbo again .. then its 270-280rwkw then its motor pop.. Oh well rebuild with nice pistons.. lets push it to 300rwkw and on it goes.

 

So far I've spent around $7000-$8000 and haven't even got the turbo yet!!!

 

Even when I do max power I am after is 300rwkw as anything more and the 3ltr may become a bit to hard to get the power to the ground.

 

A smaller motor starts to have problems getting power to the ground even earlier as they are less linear and more snappy.

 

I don't want high power dyno queen crap.. As Long as I have a massive mid range that makes you feel sick upon acceleration (now who's dreaming) I will be happy.

Thats the way im going from 180kw-230.

Out of interest the forged internal kits that hi octane are selling etc etc.How much power could a bottom end like that handle (rb25 style).

The rods look like fort knox when compared to the gtr rods.

[performance-wise]

Please forgive my ignorance - as I previously mentioned, I am a newbie to performance cars.

It sounds like a tall order to get that much power from the rb25. Maybe I should be looking at 300kw. This sounds much more achievable and reliable.

Why I want this - I had my first real taste of a power increase in my car when I installed the power fc and got it tuned properly and I loved it. I loved feeling the car really open up and it made me hungry for more.

The general feeling from you guys is that I should be looking at around 300kw so I will aim for this realistically.

My next mods will be the front mount, boost control and oil catch tank.

Any recommendations for a good front mount kit? I have been looking at hybrid kits and also hks kits and trust kits.

Any one got any feedback and prices for these(and suppliers).

I am also trying to decide on the best, most suited boost contrller.

I have been looking at the apexi avcr - are these ok? what else is available?

thnx.

[Skyrine-Dave]

i really think you should aim for 200-230rwkw, due to the fact you say:

a) your a newbie to performance

B) you currently have 180rwkw

c) So far all your mods are you 'typical' upgrades for reach the 200-230rwkw target. (which is alot of power anyway)

To get 300rwkw, which is a shitload of power! you are going to need:

* FMIC

* Larger turbo (GT30)

* Custom manifold

* Wastegate

* Larger injectors

* Decent clutch

R31Nismoid has got a fairly built engine with all the support systems pretty much and his cranks out 270rwkw and will make more when he gets a better fuel pump.

in Summary: Aim lower

[Roy]

One other thing, even if your car isnt laggy and is very responsive, my thoughts are with more then 230-250rwkws you lose driveability in the car:( You give it the slightest tweak in 1st & 2nd and you will be at break neck speeds in no time at all. Which leaves you with a car that you cant even rev out unless your willing to cop the wraith of local constabulary:(

For a road car 200-230rwkws is on the money, std injectors, std internals, and just a bolt on high flow. Dont know too many ppl that would say a GT3 Porsche is slow and you would have more power then one:)

Depends what you want to do with the car, if you want to have a bit of fun at the drag strip, or circuit then cool, 300rwkws would be wicked and useable...but if its a road car there is no way on earth you will be able to use that power without living in fear of becomign another statistic, be it because of a fine or an acco:(

[discopotato03]

You may do well to read the R33 RB30 thread . Torque is what feels good and if you can put together even a budget RB30 (using the std N/A pistons) its good value . It's also a good learning exercise .

When looking at Kw figures remember its a number made up of torque multiplied by engine rpm . I believe the car manufacturers have engineered their own market so to speak , more is better so the highest number wins . An engine that developes medeocre torque but has a high ie 9000rpm redline can boast a high Kw output figure . But whats the output at typical round town or highway rpm's ?

I reckon a more honest approach would have been Kw figures taken at say 100km/h type rpm's in the vehicles most direct transmission ratio at wide open throttle .

Enough of my ramblings , if it were me I'd go three litre and do some not too extreme bolt on's .

Chow A .

[Blitz]

Please forgive my ignorance - as I previously mentioned, I am a newbie to performance cars.

It sounds like a tall order to get that much power from the rb25. Maybe I should be looking at 300kw. This sounds much more achievable and reliable.

Why I want this - I had my first real taste of a power increase in my car when I installed the power fc and got it tuned properly and I loved it. I loved feeling the car really open up and it made me hungry for more.

The general feeling from you guys is that I should be looking at around 300kw so I will aim for this realistically.

My next mods will be the front mount, boost control and oil catch tank.

Any recommendations for a good front mount kit? I have been looking at hybrid kits and also hks kits and trust kits.

Any one got any feedback and prices for these(and suppliers).

I am also trying to decide on the best, most suited boost contrller.

I have been looking at the apexi avcr - are these ok? what else is available?

thnx.

Im sorry, but you are "new" to the performance car scene and you want 350kw?

I really dont think you understand - jumping from a mild car with exhaust/power fc etc to a 350kw monster is no walk in the park.

It sounds like you have minimal if any real experience in a high power car.

Hunger for a bit more power is one thing - but just deciding that you must have 350kw is plain dumb.

[DezertEagle]

Boost controller, anything electronic.

Hybrid Front Mounts are good... all the same with street cars.

Just do up your car a step at a time and have fun, but ~250kw at the wheels in a GTSt I believe is more then sufficient for a daily driver.

Happy modding.

[Bass Junky]

Blitz :werd:

[performance-wise]

ok. Ive edited the thread title and the power goal - seemed to be getting up a few peoples noses!

I appreciate everyones concerns but how else does a person learn to drive and control a machine with high power outputs? Gran Turismo?

I have been driving for over 10 years now, never had an accident and I dont drive like a granny. I have had plenty of experience driving commo 6 cylinders and V8s but no I have never owned a skyline untill 8 months ago. I travell over 400km a week to work on open highways and I have been in many situations where I have been lucky and I probably wouldve been screwed if I didnt have the skyline.

I know my car, I know how it feels and its capabilities. I have completed my basic trainig and I beleive I am ready to take it to further levels.

My aim is to modify the car one step at a time over a period. I will not be reaching 250kw in one hit. It will be graduall, giving me time in between mods to adjust to the power gains. Reason being - I want a mean mutha of a machine - not just another R33!

I think you guys should let me worry about my own driving abilities and just keep those ideas and suggestions flowing.

After Im done, maybe we can meet up on a track some day!

Regarding front mount kits;

What's better and why;

-hks

-hybrid

-trust

[SXC180]

last night i know someone who cracked 355rwkw on standard internals rb25det