wanna get over 350rwkw?

[Cubes]

My only concern with the HKS type boost controllers is you cannot directly dial in the amount of boost you want to run and then have the boost controller learn how to get to that boost pressure.

I had a Blitz SBC-ID which was quite good. I could use a manual mode which sounds like the operation of the HKS EVC. I would dial in 40 or 70 whatever.

I would have to play with it to get my boost right.

BUT the only problem with that 40 or 70 manual setting is that the boost controller would not reduce the 40-70 duty cycle or what ever it represents in the higher rev's to compensate for a turbo that is being pushed to its limits (i.e the rb20 turbo trying to run over 13psi). In turn boost would taper off.

In auto mode the Blitz boost controller would monitor the boost level and ensure the duty cycle was so that it would most definately hold boost.

The AVCR works on the same principle.

Everything that I have read on the HKS only states this number representation figure. I've also had a few reports from those with turbo's near their limits that the HKS boost controller most definately drops boost in the higher rpm.

THis was the EVC IV.. Maybe things have changed with the EVC V.

Without being able to enter a PSI or similiar value I cannot see how the HKS boost controller will hold boost in the higher RPM's.

One bonus with the AVCR is all the fandangled features.

Almost like a mini traction control setup with boost level's per gear and RPM settings.

The blitz is also able to do this + predict horsepower, 1/4 mile runs etc BUT you have to buy another little $300 PoweriD as they call it.

[INASNT]

The HKs EVC is not the best with stock parts, it far better when you have ext gate and bigger turbo.

[Cubes]

See thats the thing.. If you go for say a HKS2835S that tends to drop a little boost in the higher rpm's when making around 260-280rwkw then you will want an EBC that will hold the boost.

A GT30 no doubt also run in to the same problem at some point if you lean on it hard enough.

External gate or not people still have problems holding boost in the higher rpm's.

[Roy]

All those fancy features and the LCD doesent go past the fact it is a single solenoid controller that doesent work well with an external gate!!

The more BS features things have sometimes is to hide the fact they cant do what you want them to do in the first place

Thats crap, :kick:

My car runs a std wastegate spring of 8psi, using my AVCR it holds a very stable 15psi, (Setting A) then 17psi with Setting B. So i appreciate what you are saying about stepper motor etc etc, but its crap to say they dont work with an external gate.

My car holds rock solid boost with no spikes at 9psi over and above the spring pressure. If what you are saying is true how do you explain my results.

So not saying AVCR is the best, but so much BS floats around about them, when they are a very capable (and very cool looking:) boost controller.

And my car in the higher rpsm holds boost fine...wait till i get my new laptop battery and ill download some boost and rpm data from my data logger...AVCRs work fine....and there is nothing mystical about my car, if it can do it any car can:)

[Bl4cK32]

I like how people argue which x product is best....without bench testing each against the other. (not having a go at you inasnt...everyone does it - me included )

I just think about how many people like the Power fc, then bag Apexi for their boost controller - which was made to be used in conjunction with the Power fc (see plug on side for boost controller kit)

The boost controller kit is the same as the AVCR, but doesnt have the blue screen, due to the fact the commander hand controller does the same job...

I chose it, and it seems to have what i want....im happy

[Cubes]

The PowerFC EBC solanoid works extremely well.

Steve was making 323rwkw on his 3037S using an external gate and holding how much boost, I can't remember. It was up over 20psi though.

Obviously the Apexi single solanoid is well designed and can do the job just as well if not better.

Some times bigger isn't always better.

[Roy]

I cant see how they get a bad wrap, with the std turbo held 14psi well, (only 2 psi increase over base boost level) no spikes and no dropping boost high in the rev range.

Then get the external gate which with the AVCR off only runs 8psi. So with the controller witched on my car runs a solid 17psi, thats means its bleeding 9psi extra boost and it doesnt fall off as the rev rise....so basically a repeat of what i poseted before...but i want to stress as far as boost controllers go they are great...plus you can monitor injector duty cycle etc with them which is pretty handy.

Forums are great, but from time to time products cop a flogging based on some persons opinions not experiences....the only reason im senstitive on this topic is i was all set to sell my boost controller when i upgraded the turbo as ppl had me convinced it was crap... obviously they are not.

All the major boost controllers are close to one another...a few features are different, and the styling is very different...i think you can be assured most are good units:) If you can get your MAP based ECU to control boost then hey thats money along with the upgraded AFM you have just saved....so starts to add up:)

[fatz]

how big is you choof choof valve

[INASNT]

I like how people argue which x product is best....without bench testing each against the other. (not having a go at you inasnt...everyone does it - me included )

 

I just think about how many people like the Power fc, then bag Apexi for their boost controller - which was made to be used in conjunction with the Power fc (see plug on side for boost controller kit)

 

The boost controller kit is the same as the AVCR, but doesnt have the blue screen, due to the fact the commander hand controller does the same job...

 

I chose it, and it seems to have what i want....im happy

Well yes i havent personally used the avcr but have friends that used them with stock turbo setup and it worked ok, but using external gates and bigger turbos had problems.

I was told the greddy profec b spec II was the shitniz of boost controllers and got one and it was such a bitch to setup especially with the external gate, Ben from racepace and nige/gerald from ice didnt even bother to install it as there were so many bs things associated with it it took 2 hrs on the dyno to set and hold a boost setting. So i sold it and got the hks evc which was not fancy looking but worked a charm.

Roy, ask Ben or Nige about AVC-R and they will tell you they have had more trouble with them that success on big turbo cars

Data from the data logger will be good to see also

[performance-wise]

thnx for the info guys - so far Im leaning toward the avcr as I already have the power fc but I wont be getting it for a week or 2 so keep the suggestions coming.

fatz - u takin the piss or what? I think I 'll go the second blow off valve and also get lowered door handles.... watch the horse power unfold then.... :-)

Had a quick search for intercoolers but couldnt really find any usefull info. I just basically want to know about pressure drops and flow properties. Are larger end tanks better? I have the choice of buying a kit or getting a workshop to make me up a custom job.

which front mount would be more suited to 250rwkw?

[sozman]

Hey mate, hey guys,

I agree entirely with your motivation and methodology. For those who scoff at him, cast your minds back to when you were staring out... I remember thinking my brothers V6 VN Commodore went fast... At least he knows enough to acknowledge that he has more to lean. Far better approach than many others (no names no court martials...) who have read a couple of Zoom magazines and profess to know all.

Talk really is cheap, and opinions are like ... armpits. Everyone's got one (or two). People talk from their of their friends experience. Saying Brand A is crap, brand B rocks supreme is a bit silly. If brand A really was crap, then it would cease to exist due to low sales.

HKS, Trust, GReddy, Apexi all make brilliant products, that's why everyone knows their name...

OK, off soap box.

For a boost controller, I agree wholeheartedly that pneumatic boost controllers aren't good enough when you start to climb up the performance ladder. I had a Tu...woops known brand two stage boost controller in my old MR2 and it was great until I started to get a bit serious. It would spike if I dropped back to third and floored it to overtake. Basically the turbo snaps to full boost and the little valve is momentarily overwhelmed.

I also found that my boost would creep under sustained acceleration in high gears, not drop. But I suspect that was more attributable to the standard dump pipe impeding flow through the wastegate. On cold nights the boost would rise by 2 psi over what was set too.

Bla bla bla, I digress. Electronic boost controllers are the way to go, but they are a tad pricy. I bought a second hand Greddy Profec B, not spec II, for $300 and it is fantastic. Hot or cold it holds boost. Slow acceleration or sudden overtaking, holds boost. All the way through 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and some of 5th it holds boost.

One would think that the Apexi would work nicely with the FC, but it also has a nice price... I unplugged the solenoid and removed it and the bracket from the P/S reservoir. Neater. So find yourself a good second hand electronic boost controller and you're away. It'll probably be around the same price a a new two stage pneumatic one anyway...

As for intercoolers, similar reasoning. People say that cutdown truck cores are crap. They may have slightly different flow properties to bar and plate cores, but they also have significantly different prices.

It all has to do with... sorry, on soapbox... has to do with what's known as 'The law of diminishing returns.' The what?? Ever heard a cheap AIWA stereo that cost $200? Then listen to a decent Sony for $600. Does it sound three times better? Probably, yeah. Now flash up a $5000 Bang and Olufssen stereo. Does it sound absolutely magnificent? Yes. Does it sound 25 times better than the AIWA. No.

It's the same with performance. Using drag racing as a yardstick. It cost buggerall to take a car from 15's to 14's. One second. It costs tens of thousands to go from 9's to 8's. One second. See my meaning?

Off soapbox.

So, as someone stated earlier, forgive me for not remembering your name to give you homage, REALISTICALLY, they all flow within a small percentage of each other. Any or all of them will be better than the standard one.

It seems to be widely accepted that 600x300mm is the size to get (give or take, if it's 540 wide and 270 high, no worries). But thickness changes.

GTR Standard is 50mm. Would be perfect for a 'warm' car and could be sought fo $400-500. We then move to 75mm. An upgrade that GTR's take and we 2.5lt drivers like to adopt too. More than adequate for a 'spicy' car. Notice I'm refraining from quoting kW figures, for good reason. Different products give different results on different cars. Easy. Sometimes THE SAME product can give different results on THE SAME cars... Perhaps a glitch in the Matrix...

Then there's the big boys with 100mm or even 115mm cores. Pissing competion winner, hands down. I managed to find a 600x300x100mm Trust item with cast endtanks etc. for $800. WOW!! Sort of. I believe it's actually too big for my current configuration. There can be too much of a good thing. Once the BOV dumps alot of the reservoir air to avoid stalling the turbo, it takes a finite period of time to charge it back up again. The bigger the reservoir the longer it takes.

I knew it would more than likely be too big for the car when I bought it, but was confident that it would be beautiful for when I've reached my goal. Another tip illustrated here. Clearly identify your endgoal (which you have) and decide upon you configuration to reach this goal. Unless you reach your first goal and still want more, then upgrading a component more than once is fiscally stupid.

For example, I've got 750cc injectors and they're a bit of a bitch to get a nice idle from, and currently at max power they're only on 54% duty cycle. But they presented themselves for the right price so I got them with my end goal in mind. Why fit them now then? Part of the deal was to exchange my standard injectors.

Having said all that, if you slowly acquire all you need to get your power goal and put them all on at once, you'll probably put the car into a gutter (or worse).

Follow the basic four steps the engine does. Suck, squeeze, bang, blow. Let it breathe in easily, good compression, big healthy spark and then get it out of there. That's all it boils down to. Some people seem to get caught up in electrical gadgety that doesn't really aid those four areas.

Who the hell am I to be preaching? Well I'm not as learned or experienced as Sydney Kid, but I'm far from one of the guys who 'walk into a speed shop and point at something to get fitted.' I have owned a few fast cars and bikes (still got a couple), I do all my own spanner work, have access to a fantastic machine shop who do my machining, and am great mates with an amazing turbocharger technician down in Melbourne who I used to work for.

I've learned from my mistakes and other peoples mistakes. I ask the right questions and listen to peoples responses. Based on their responses I quickly figure out with accuracy if they're full of it or not. That's how I chose my turbo guy and my machining guy. And then I look at examples of their work and even watch them work if I've established enough of a rapport with them. That's how I came to work down at the turbo place in Melbourne.

Look, I've prattled on enough. If you want some more advice or recommendations, please feel free to PM me and I'll help if I can, or point you somewhere if I can't.

Adrian

ps, nice idea with the lowered doorhandles. But, DO NOT get that done until you've got chrome windscreen wipers, otherwise the cross homogination will throw the car out of equilibrium.

thnx for the info guys - so far Im leaning toward the avcr as I already have the power fc but I wont be getting it for a week or 2 so keep the suggestions coming.

fatz - u takin the piss or what? I think I 'll go the second blow off valve and also get lowered door handles.... watch the horse power unfold then.... :-)

Had a quick search for intercoolers but couldnt really find any usefull info. I just basically want to know about pressure drops and flow properties. Are larger end tanks better? I have the choice of buying a kit or getting a workshop to make me up a custom job.

which front mount would be more suited to 250rwkw?

[fatz]

now thats a long response

whoooo

[bigcarl]

gtr cooler for250rwkws thats 600x300x50mm .

[performance-wise]

sozman - thnx - I appreciate the info. PM sent.

fatz - um... U whoring or what????

bigcarl - Damn they are smaller than I thought!!! Thnx for the info.

[gtst25]

Saw an interesting article in a magazine here in england.

Involved a sierra cosworth group A, running 28 psi boost.

They tested six different intercoolers, measuring pressure drop and cooler inlet/outlet temps.

The results?

All six were that close it didn't matter.

One even had rectangular end tanks, which I though would give the worst result, but was up there with the others.

I was amased at how much intercoolers actually cool the air too - turbo outlet was around 180 degrees, intercooler outlet 38 degrees on a 20 degree temp day.

So - I reckon the best intercooler to get for a mild tune (below 300rwkw) is one which is neat, as big as you can go and affordable.

Cheers

[geno8r]

i really think you should aim for 200-230rwkw, due to the fact you say:

a) your a newbie to performance

B) you currently have 180rwkw

c) So far all your mods are you 'typical' upgrades for reach the 200-230rwkw target. (which is alot of power anyway)  

True that!

Yeh just step it up 30 - 60 rwkw at a time. Im making 230 rwkw these days & thats bloody fast i rekon. I usually just drive around on 7 psi with around 190 rwkw & when i really feel the need for speed I'll up the boost to 12psi for some 230 rwkw action There really is a big difference.

I'm not sure if im getting bored with 12psi now days or if I'm just used to that power now but i am saving for my next mods to get me to 265 rwkw. That'll probably satisfy me for another 9 months & then some big money will have to be spent on internals. I'd agree with everyone else, just take it step by step, not an elevator straight to the top.

[performance-wise]

update - hybrid front mount and avcr installed.

dyno results - 208.2rwkw at 9.6psi

next - suspension / handling / braking and styling

[krzysiu]

very good power for that ammount of boost

[Slide]

i told you i were starting up paul

[performance-wise]

i told you i were starting up paul

?? PM me