CARL SCULLY IS GOING DOWN, now i'm really pissed off!!!

[78vbsle]

first read this.

Power ban for P-platers

By SIMON BENSON State Political Reporter

December 14, 2004

SOME P-plate drivers will be told what cars they can and can't drive - and be barred from high-powered vehicles - as the first stage of the State Government's solution to the youth carnage on NSW roads.

Those that have also had prior accidents or incurred demerit points and are deemed a risk will also be limited to how many passengers they can carry at certain times of the day.

These are the measures that The Daily Telegraph understands the NSW Roads Minister Carl Scully is finalising as a national P-plate forum prepares to meet tomorrow and are the preferred measures from 11 options already considered by the State Government.

Meanwhile, the Federal Government intends to trial an aggressive driver training program as part of its response to the young driver crisis.

The NSW Government's scheme -- which will ban P-platers from certain cars -- will tackle issues such as exemptions and what to do about high-powered cars already owned by young drivers.

The two new measures of power limits and passenger restrictions on drivers who have come to the attention of authorities, already raised as options to deal with rising youth carnage on the roads, have received support from P-plate forums and motoring groups over the past two weeks.

The Saving Lives on Our Roads Forum in Canberra tomorrow is at the instigation of Mr Scully and Federal Transport Minister John Anderson.

And since Mr Scully released the P-plate discussion paper late last month, more than 1000 submissions had been received.

Mr Scully yesterday would not confirm the development in his plan to cut the youth road toll but did say he had now ruled out curfews as an option.

"We have received more than 1000 submissions on the Young Driver discussion paper," he said. "I'm still considering the range of responses received on the 11 options to determine which, if any, could be announced before the end of the year.

"I will not introduce measures that do not have broad community support, that are impractical to administer and that are difficult to enforce.  

It is clear, however, from the initial responses that a curfew does not enjoy any significant level of community support and I will not be proceeding with it."

While the overall road toll in NSW is 18 lower than for the same time last year, young P-plate drivers are over-represented as a driving group and the number of deaths and injuries are rising.

Since August, a spate of deaths and a campaign by The Daily Telegraph has prompted Mr Scully to act swiftly to try and arrest the toll.

Last month he said he was sympathetic to restricting young drivers from having access to high-powered cars.

The other options which have been canvassed and could still be incorporated into a longer-term plan include:

* TOUGHER driving tests and longer learner and provisional licences

* DOUBLING the mandatory period of supervised driving for learner drivers from 50 hours to 100 hours;

* DOUBLING the minimum time spent on L-plates to 12 months, and increasing the provisional licence age to 18;

* IMPROVING the driving ability road test (from Ls to Ps) with more emphasis placed on hazard perception and safe driving practices; and

* MODIFING the demerit point system for provisional drivers.

Drivers under 26 make up just 15 per cent of licensed drivers, but are involved in 36 per cent of the fatal accidents.

On average, a P-plate driver dies in NSW every six days, while another 17 are involved in crashes each day.  

I am really sick of this diickhead, now many of you , like me aren't P-platers anymore, so such restrictions won't really affect us.

So then, why am I so pissed off? I'll tell you why, because these restrictions will now pathe the way for power restrictions on all cars, it'll be the 70's supercar scare all over again.

Honestly, how long do you think it is going to take before these car hateing pinko's start thinking, why do we need such powerful cars when the speed limit is only 110km/h, and then call for a power cap to be put on all cars?

It's time for all car enthusiasts to stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!

It's time to let Carl Scully and his cronees no that this legislation is going to cost him and his party votes.

I would urge every enthusiast on here to write to Mr Scully's office directly on the following address;

Carl Scully, NSW minister for roads (NSW Labour party)

[email protected]

Write to him and let him know he has just lost your vote, and not just your vote, let him know you will encourage as many people as you can not to vote for him (and the NSW labour party).

LET HIM KNOW THAT HIS BLATA0NT CONTEMPT FOR MOTORING ENTHUSIASTS AND MOTORISTS IN GENERAL WILL COST THE NSW LABOUR PARTY THE NEXT NSW STATE ELECTION!!!

[CSV Imports]

Word Up on that one man!!! That guy has done enough!

[xRHETTx]

Oh i thought this thread was about the guy on Neighbours...

[silver gts-t]

Oh i thought this thread was about the guy on Neighbours...

funniest thing ive read all day

[Bill]

Some good things, some not so good things but as yet no detail.

At least he whacked the curfuw on the head.

[seraphyn_r33]

im up for that, i hate this dickhead. i dont give a **** anymore, ill drive what i want. no one can tell me what i can and cant drive

[d0p3y]

I think endorsing driver training is a very, very smart move.

There's also other steps they should take to save lives on the roads; but I don't go into it as its a little controversial for some.

Having been involved in both a bad accient(i was not the driver) and having lost someone I know in a fatal car accident within the last 6 months, I too most definately feel action needs to be taken, however they're seeking solutions in the wrong places (except driver training which is most certainly an excellent suggestion)

[nmcmahon83]

I wouldn't take too much notice of this article... The Daily Telegraph has been spinning shit about this topic since it all began... Wait and see what the actual decision is before jumping to conclusion.

And if you want to hate anybody, hate the stupid ****s at the Daily Telegraph for all there P-plate bashing over the last month or so. They are the ones forcing the government to take such drastic measures.

[NOZILR]

i agree with some of the stuff he says limit power till you are 21 and longer ps and ls there are to many crashes and i dont want some p plater who thinks he is marke skafe crash into me

[Guilty]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Young-...2787085744.html

read this thread, its new from smh which is more neutral then DT......

Here are the more important quotes:

" Mr Scully said whatever restrictions were put in place there had to be exemptions for cases where a 17- or 18-year-old had already purchased a high-powered vehicle."

and also:

"You always have to have hardship provisions," Mr Scully said. "Government can't come along and basically cause financial ruin for a 17- or 18-year-old who lawfully purchased a vehicle ... You've also got to make provision if the only family car is a high-powered car."

I hope that this will mean i dont have to sell my line....coz that is really screwd...

[Bass Junky]

There ARE power restrictions in Victoria.

125 kW per tonne (stock)

3.5 litres per tonne (stock)

Theoretically you can't drive an R33 GTS-T on your P plates. People still do, but they get big fines if they get caught.

You can apply for an exemption for special purposes. My mate worked at Porsche and needed to drive high powered cars for his job, and another mate who was a tradie pulled a trailer all day and therefore needed a V8.

In my opinion (more than 10 years on the road) I think it's a good idea to restrict young drivers to lower powered cars for a period of time.

Just imagine if your son or daughter (or Mum, Dad, brother, sister, girlfriend) was killed by a P-Plater driving a high powered car the day he got his licence.

Some people are going to say "Any car can kill anyone" and that's true. But when was the last time you saw a 75kW VW Golf drifting through a corner and wrapping itself around a poll because and INEXPERIENCED driver was being a fu(kwit behind the wheel.

I don't give a rats arse what anybody says about their own driving skill, and how many track days they've done and how many defensive drivers days and whatever that they have participated in, your need experience ON THE ROADS. This if where accidents happen and people get killed.

Being on a race track is all about going in the same direction as the rest of the people one the road, and you are all going down the same driving line, and on the same section of road over and over again. I'm not bagging and track drivers, but that's a fact. It's a lot safer on a track to do anything than on the road.

In Victoria, you can get your L-plates at 16, but cannot drive unsupervised until your get your P-Plates at 18.

Your Ps then last till you are 21.

I see no problem with the Victorian laws.

BASS OUT

[eXc]

I reckon they should put a power ban on p platers. Bikes have had it for ages, (and it proved worthwhile) y shouldnt cars?

I think there should be a way to allow people to still get the cars however. Like maybe if you are a member of a club (ie. u r responsible...doing your fun stuff of the street). Maybe they allow you to have performance cars once you complete some type of special test (ideally a driving school)

I think power restriction is a good thing - As long as there is a way that responsible people can still have them. Simple...prove yourself as responsible and have them, dont be responsible and don't.

Just my $0.02

[2rismo]

I'm sorry 78vbsle but I don't disagree with all the points or options being put forward so your pro-enthusiast, anti-Scully campaign wont get any of my support. Please don't assume that your message is echoed by everyone here simply because we're motoring enthusiasts.

Adrian

[fatz]

im 200% ertain that scully will put power restriction out to nsw on the 1st jan

i think its a great idea

supercar scare lol

[RBN1]

I agree with Bass Junky. Vic laws have been quite effective ever since the P place power to weight restrictions came in.

at the same token a R32 GTS-T is legal to drive on your P's in Victoria - food for thought

[predator]

I'm well past the p-plate age.. but I think its all a little misguided what they are trying to do. There have been, and will always be deaths on our roads. Making life difficult for a large number of people is not the way to do it.

I agree on some of the ideas in some ways, but you have to give people the freedom to make their own decisions in life. If people make silly decisions and destroy their lives or others, then so be it. That's been humanity for thousands of years.

[fatz]

Just red a report that summarised 50 cases throughout the world on driver education for novice drivers basically in 99% of the cases they didn’t do anything for the young driver road toll

Basically novice drivers even with training take too many risks and will continue to kill themselves

Training just improves their skills, which leads them to take even greater risks due to overconfidence

Will be interesting to see the results of the trial because if it works it will be the first successful one

[Revhead]

I still consider that I was a damn sight more sensible than most people I knew at 18, but I'm glad I didn't have the 33 back then. I just didn't have the maturity or experience to safely drive it, or the cash to keep it in a safe condition. I had a VC Commodore with a mild 202 and 5 speed, which I enjoyed heaps, in which I learned plenty, and which I strongly believe prepared me for the step up to the Skyline. Driving a slower car for a while not only let me experiment with the car at lower speeds (~145 on the main straight at QR vs a lot more in the line), it also gave me time to learn roadcraft, which is something that a lot of people seem to forget. You can have raced gokarts since before you were conceived, you can have been a passenger on every road in the country, but nothing except experiencing it for yourself can teach you roadcraft. And while you might argue that your car goes, stops and corners better than a a sales rep's VX, forget your ego for a moment and remember that the best modification you can make to your car sits in the driver's seat.

All that said, I don't disagree with limiting power/weight on drivers fresh off their L's, but I do agree that the focus being solely on P-platers is unfair... and no, I'm not a P-plater, I've been on my opens for close on 5 years. Last time I looked, elderly drivers were also over-represented in crash statistics, but I don't see a huge push to get them off the roads. Why? A few reasons IMHO:

1. Much of the voting public can see themselves in the shoes of elderly drivers in the forseeable future. None have to worry about being 17 or 18 again, so they don't give two shits what happens to that end of the spectrum.

2. The pollies themselves would be fast approaching the age that compulsory retesting or whatever would come into effect, so they don't want to implement something that they themselves don't want to do.

3. The media and pollies haven't been bashing elderly drivers, so there's currently no public uproar on elderly drivers causing mayhem on our roads.

4. The general public seems to regard antisocial behaviour as far more of a problem than the issues caused by elderly drivers. Elderly drivers are often pitied, young drivers are hated. Look at stories on an old person who is massively disadvantaged by an uncaring govt who revoked their license - they suffer a loss of independence, their self-confidence is shot, and frail old Dot can't get to Bingo any more; yet the fact that Dot can't see more than 12 inches from her face and drives at 20km/h isn't mentioned. When a young person's license is taken away for doing 3km/h over the limit in a car with an aftermarket exhaust and FMIC, old people don't give a stuff, and ACA and TT show yet another 'hoon' story.

Elderly drivers often think that driving for the past 190 years (without reassessment or, in many cases, even a first assessment) makes them a better driver, and are oblivious to anything they do wrong, like weaving all over the road, changing lanes without looking/indicating, or doing 50 in a 110 zone (yes, that means you Mr Caravan-behind-a-Landcruiser man out near Roma!). Hmm, underskilled and overconfident... doesn't that argument sound familiar!!

In Qld (dunno about other states) there is no longer a need to do an eye test when renewing your license. It's OK if you can't see past the steering wheel, as long as you don't speed or have a pod filter. What does that tell you about the priorities of Queensland Transport?

I hate it when the Govt brings in a whole stack of things at the same time. They usually do it when there is opposition against one or more of the steps, because that way, if/when it works (as there are sometimes one or two good suggestions) they spread credit across ALL of their options. See, confiscation laws DID SAVE LIVES, it wasn't one of the other, far more sensible options...

[blacky]

from fatz

Basically novice drivers even with training take too many risks and will continue to kill themselves

I believe this is the one reason why p-platers always seem to feature so heavily when it comes to road carnage and fatal crashes - when you've never had the freedom and power a car provides before, when your mates (who either have their p's too or are getting them soon) are in the back seat cheering you on, when your dying to see what 150kmh feels like your bound to be doing irresponsible and unsafe things on the road. God knows I did it, throwing the old camira around like a toy... but after a year or two of driving, the novelty kind of wore off, and now i'd much rather maintain the car and just have it working well rather than racing it at every opportuniy.

not in all cases, but in alot its a novelty thing : get first car=be stupid until the novelty wears off.

Oh, and I've got to say power restrictions don't seem to be that well thought out - a 93 Holden Barina can go 150kmh and slam into a pole, just like a 300kw R33 can....and theres a pretty big power difference there. Just look at 250cc bike riders - the size/power restriciton there doesnt stop them having accidents. (although to be fair, they would probably be more likely to have one if they were on a bigger bike)

Blacky