Adjustable caster rods + 4 wheel alignment = Just do it!!

[tigerleo62]

Hi guys - well I had caster rods replaced prior to xmas, but only found out yesterday that they were adjustable BUT the wheel alignment hadn't been done SO I had the caster rods adjusted today and the wheel alignment for all 4 wheels done at Wilkinson Supsension in Bayswater...

All I can say is that if you haven't had this done to your Stag and you are concerned/complaining about light/sloppy steering then DO IT NOW!

The difference to the weight and sureness of the steering is outstanding - the car now feels like a car rather than a mini-bus/kombi. It feels much more sure-footed and way more confident going around corners and more responsive in quick changes of direction etc

For around $400 for parts, fitting and alignment, it is certainly money well spent. Highly, no not just highly, a MUST recommendation!

(Thanks to SK for raising the caster arms in his Suspension thread!)

[Sydneykid]

Hi guys - well I had caster rods replaced prior to xmas, but only found out yesterday that they were adjustable BUT the wheel alignment hadn't been done SO I had the caster rods adjusted today and the wheel alignment for all 4 wheels done at Wilkinson Supsension in Bayswater...

All I can say is that if you haven't had this done to your Stag and you are concerned/complaining about light/sloppy steering then DO IT NOW!  

The difference to the weight and sureness of the steering is outstanding - the car now feels like a car rather than a mini-bus/kombi. It feels much more sure-footed and way more confident going around corners and more responsive in quick changes of direction etc

For around $400 for parts, fitting and alignment, it is certainly money well spent. Highly, no not just highly, a MUST recommendation!

(Thanks to SK for raising the caster arms in his Suspension thread!)    

No problems, what I can, I share.

For interest sake, what wheel alignment settings did you end up with?

[tigerleo62]

Front

(full stop should be degrees symbol)

Partial Toe: L+0.09 R+0.09

Toe: +0.18

Set back: -0.39

Camber: L-0.39 R-0.35

Camber dif.: +0.04

Caster: L+5.49 R+5.20

Caster dif.: +0.28

King Pin: L+15.24 R+14.56

King Pin dif.: +0.28

Included angle: L+14.45 R+14.21

Rear

Partial Toe: L+0.05 R+0.06

Toe: +0.11

Set back: -0.04

Camber: L-1.34 R -1.28

Camber dif.: +0.06

Thrust angle: +0.00

[Sydneykid]

Front  

(full stop should be degrees symbol)

Partial Toe: L+0.09 R+0.09

Toe: +0.18

Set back: -0.39

Camber: L-0.39 R-0.35

Camber dif.: +0.04

Caster: L+5.49 R+5.20

Caster dif.: +0.28

King Pin: L+15.24 R+14.56

King Pin dif.: +0.28

Included angle: L+14.45 R+14.21

Rear

Partial Toe: L+0.05 R+0.06

Toe: +0.11

Set back: -0.04

Camber: L-1.34 R -1.28

Camber dif.: +0.06

Thrust angle: +0.00

Typical Stagea, same as mine, 0.4 degrees negative on the front and 1.3 degrees negative on the rear. Do you know if the tried using the standard camber adjusters on the rear to take some off? Or was that using their full adjustment? If that's the case, it needs adj camber bushes. Caster is good, standard they don't make much more than 3 degrees positive, 5 is so much better. No wonder the steering is improved.

[tigerleo62]

Typical Stagea, same as mine, 0.4 degrees negative on the front and 1.3 degrees negative on the rear.  Do you know if the tried using the standard camber adjusters on the rear to take some off?  Or was that using their full adjustment?  If that's the case, it needs adj camber bushes.  Caster is good, standard they don't make much more than 3 degrees positive, 5 is so much better.  No wonder the steering is improved.

I imagine they are adjustments using the standard camber adjusters - I haven't had adjustable camber bushes installed. These are the before and after camber settings front & back:

Front:

before: L-1.04 R-0.50

after: L-0.39 R-0.35

Rear:

before: L-1.59 R-1.58

after: L-1.34 R-1.28

They also made some fairly dramatic alterations with the Toe - the right rear before, in fact the right hand side of the car - was dropped down and evened out - the chap who served me pointed out the right rear Toe original value to me saying that I would notice an improvement in straight line smoothness - he was quite correct!

BUT THE STORY DOESN'T END THERE!!!

Today I had the anti-sway bars installed - now the Stagea goes around corners!!! :aroused:

I mean, it did go around corners before, just not that convincingly. Now I can feel the front wheels as the drive is transfered to the front and the car pull out of the corner/curve. I just have to get used to how the car handles now and go for a drive DURING THE DAY around some turning/twisty stuff instead of at night like I did this evening...

I would say that at the moment the Stag has more capability than I have the courage to throw at a heavy car. The car feels great and so much more enjoyable to drive - now I can imagine it doing with a little more power whereas before the car felt too powerful compared to the rolling and relatively sloppy handling that it came with from the yard.

Yeah, effen unreal!!!

[Sydneykid]

I imagine they are adjustments using the standard camber adjusters - I haven't had adjustable camber bushes installed. These are the before and after camber settings front & back:

Front:

before: L-1.04 R-0.50

after: L-0.39 R-0.35

Rear:

before: L-1.59 R-1.58

after: L-1.34 R-1.28

They also made some fairly dramatic alterations with the Toe - the right rear before, in fact the right hand side of the car - was dropped down and evened out  - the  chap who served me pointed out the right rear Toe original value to me saying that I would notice an improvement in straight line smoothness - he was quite correct!

BUT THE STORY DOESN'T END THERE!!!

Today I had the anti-sway bars installed - now the Stagea goes around corners!!!   :aroused:  

I mean, it did go around corners before, just not that convincingly. Now I can feel the front wheels as the drive is transfered to the front and the car pull out of the corner/curve. I just have to get used to how the car handles now and go for a drive DURING THE DAY around some turning/twisty stuff instead of at night like I did this evening...

I would say that at the moment the Stag has more capability than I have the courage to throw at a heavy car. The car feels great and so much more enjoyable to drive - now I can imagine it doing with a little more power whereas before the car felt too powerful compared to the rolling and relatively sloppy handling that it came with from the yard.

Yeah, effen unreal!!!  

Thanks for that, the standard rear camber adjusters seem to commonly remove 0.3 to 0.5 degrees of the negative. Yours and mine are both examples of that. So the camber bushes in the rear are pretty much always needed. Sometimes even two sets (both inner and outer bushes) are needed when they are lowered a fair bit.

You are so right about the stabiliser bars, they make such a difference to handling and feel of a Stagea.

The technical stuff......Being a waggon they have a lot of weight high up in the rear that is simply not there in a sedan or a coupe, that means the centre of mass is higher. Since the rear suspension is the same, the roll centre is in the same place as the sedans and coupes. This means the roll couple (distance between the roll centre and the centre of mass) is much greater and the waggons roll more for the same amount of G force (same speed and corner). That's at the rear, the front roll couple is not much different, that's why I did a big upgrade on the rear and a smaller upgrade on the front.

The non technical stuff.....I reckon upgrading the stabiliser bars is always a worthwhile mod on a Skyline sedan and coupe, doing it on a Stagea waggon is a must. The big difference I feel is when I get 2 corners close together, before it would still be recovering from the first corner when I needed to turn for the second corner. Now it is just flick flick with the steering wheel and both corners are goooooone.

Now I just need to track down my Bilsteins............