Jaycar Boost and Fuel Control

[siksII]

If you are running just a simple bleed valve then the IBC will make a big  difference in how fast boost builds.   This is because the bleed vlave still lets some air pressure get to the wastegate actuator, the closer it gets to its bleed off pressure the more it lets work.  The IBC ensures that absolutely zero air pressure gets to the wastegate actuator until it opens the solenoid.  This means you get the fastest possible boost build for that turbo on that engine.  No other boost controller I have seen can give that absolute control.

thats what i thought, thanks for confirming, i will definetly consider one of these in the future, i never considered a jap ebc (or an e-boost) because of the $$ but $150 seems like good value to improve the boost control over the bleed valve i have. im not sure what u mean by simple bleed valve, i have a turbosmart dual setting boost controller with a switch in the car, which im quite sure is just two simple bleed valves inside a shiny pink box.

[Lone]

Yes I remmeber seeing them quite cheap on nengun, some of the reason why I can see it as being a viable mod for the car, so in your own opinion the SAFC would be a great way to lean the motor out a little to make some more power instead of going full aftermarket computer which just wouldnt be worth it for the costs and stuffing around with the auto etc.?

Just want to make sure that the tuning quality of the SAFC is quite well regarded and does a good job without risk to the motor when tuned correctly?

hopefully even help fuel usuage get down

[Sydneykid]

SK any chance you can come to Darwin and install onw for me.  Hahahaha

When I can get the money will think of installing one.

Cheers ICE

I think we will be racing at the V8 round there this year. The plane schedules (Sydney / Darwin / Sydney) are so infrequent I will probably have a couple of days to kill afterwards. The Jack Daniels is on you:cheers:

[Sydneykid]

Yes I remmeber seeing them quite cheap on nengun, some of the reason why I can see it as being a viable mod for the car, so in your own opinion the SAFC would be a great way to lean the motor out a little to make some more power instead of going full aftermarket computer which just wouldnt be worth it for the costs and stuffing around with the auto etc.?

Just want to make sure that the tuning quality of the SAFC is quite well regarded and does a good job without risk to the motor when tuned correctly?

hopefully even help fuel usuage get down

I used the DFA for those exact reasons, lean it out for more power, better fuel economy and keep the auto gearbox logic working as intended by Nissan. My power target is 200 4wkw, if it was higher than that I would have gone full computer. No reason why the SAFC can't do the same, I have seen many R33 GTST's make 200+ rwkw with an SAFC. The Stagea ECU has plenty of smarts, so I hope it isn't too clever.

With all AFM voltage benders it is a bit of a tuning juggle, you are constantly fighting with trying to lean it out, but not advance the ignition timing too far at the same time. I have already hit that issue, but I believe the exhaust upgrade will overcome that very shortly.

[resonance]

SK, do you know anyone or have any opinions on these DFA/BC units on an (red top) SR20DET?

What about the solenoids, can I use a SR20DET one?

I've been into electronics since a kid, and so might get the book and built these kits (have seen the book around but lacking money, I didnt buy it). I have a 180sx, with exhaust and pod filter, and I have been considering getting a BadBiki daughterboard and play with the maps that way, but these Jaycar kits might be a bit easier and cheaper. I am wanting to lean out my maps a bit (some backfiring on low revs, etc).

Thanks for the great information and explanations!

[Sydneykid]

SK, do you know anyone or have any opinions on these DFA/BC units on an (red top) SR20DET?  

What about the solenoids, can I use a SR20DET one?

I've been into electronics since a kid, and so might get the book and built these kits (have seen the book around but lacking money, I didnt buy it). I have a 180sx, with exhaust and pod filter, and I have been considering getting a BadBiki daughterboard and play with the maps that way, but these Jaycar kits might be a bit easier and cheaper. I am wanting to lean out my maps a bit (some backfiring on low revs, etc).

Thanks for the great information and explanations!

SR20DET uses an AFM for its master load sensor, so no reason it won't work exactly the same as on RB.

The SR20 solenoids I have seen are pretty much the same as the RB ones, they are the preferred "normally closed" type. So again, I see no reason why it won't work.

For ~$200 for the three (DFA, IBC and Controller) kits I can't think of a better bang for buck tuning solution.

[ICE12]

I think we will be racing at the V8 round there this year.  The plane schedules (Sydney / Darwin / Sydney) are so infrequent I will probably have a couple of days to kill afterwards. The Jack Daniels is on you:cheers:

No Drama SK. As things get closer to the date PM me and I will give you my mobile number. I am a School Based constable now and am part of our Club 16 motorsport concept (12 - 16yrs involved in racing gemini's and the HQ racing I'm not driving at this time). so i will be at the meet.

PS i am sure I could russel up some beverages.

Cheers ICE

[eXc]

Believe it or not, the solenoid Sillycoon Chump recommend is the Nissan, just like the one on the Stagea.  The instructions even have a picture of it.  So stick up a "wanted" on the forum, there are plenty of R33 GTST's with EBC's that aren't using their standard solenoids.

SK, what about 32 gtst's RB20? Do they have a solenoid that will work? Just trying to work out if I need to source a solenoid or if mine will have one it aleady?

[madmoomoo]

Hey folks,

I just have to say that for anyone out there wanting to learn about and improve their cars, the jaycar book is a very valuable read. It's only 20 bucks and is very handy learning tool. I bought to book along with the boost kit/hand controller. They were the second and third kits I have built (the first one was the air mixture kit the day before).

So, If a non-engineer like me can solder those things up, anyone can.

I'm yet to hook it all up (hopefully tomorrow), but I have to say, I've learned a hell of a lot from them, and it also gives you lots of ideas for other things you can do to your car too.

Sydneykid, I have to say that you're doing a fantastic job with the thread, and you're extremely courteous and give hugely detailed to resposes to any questions posed to you. Good on you. This thread is going to be a valuable referrence for me (I'm going the same path, going to puchase fuel adjuster next...)

Cheers!

[Oosh]

SK, what about 32 gtst's RB20? Do they have a solenoid that will work? Just trying to work out if I need to source a solenoid or if mine will have one it aleady?

RB20's don't use a solenoid, just a ~10 psi actuator, you'll need to get yourself a solenoid from somewhere else. e.g. RB25 / SR20

[eXc]

ok thanks

[benl1981]

Do you need the hand controller. Or can you just get the boost controller buy itself. ?

I was going to get a simploe relief valve and check valve to bring on boost faster but started reading this. Seems a little harder though

thanks

[Oosh]

Do you need the hand controller.  Or can you just get the boost controller buy itself. ?  

I was going to get a simploe relief valve and check valve to bring on boost faster but started reading this.  Seems a little harder though

thanks

You need the hand-controller to set it up, so yes you do need one, if you could borrow one during setup then you could live without it on the road.

But, if you want to make any adjustments then you'll need it back again, i also think you need the controller to switch between boost maps too so you'd be stuck on the one map.

[madmoomoo]

Hey benl1981,

The jaycar kit will give you much more control over the boost curve, unlike the bleed valves, which I believe can give you funny spikes and an uneven curve.

With the hand controller, yes you need it to set up the curves, but once set, it can be removed. There is a switch on the boost controller itself (which I am going to mount on the dash somewhere) that switches between high/low maps. You can leave the controller connected though, if you want to have a look at what's happening. I've built the kits and they're dead easy. I'm installing it all tomorrow. I can truly say it's not that hard at all, and you get to learn lots in the process.

cheers.

[elbee111]

Gday all,

My Son and I put together the boost controller and hand controller kits on Saturday night.

I got a male to male 25 pin from DSE today and gave it a run.

Prob 1: Got no display on screen. Found that adjusting the display brightness trimpot gave a display.

Prob 2: The display consisted of one line of squares composed of dots. Found that we had swapped the position of the two pics in the Boost Controller kit. (Actually missed the fact when putting it together that these pics are programmed with two different hex files.)

This may help someone later on.

I now have the two kits doing what they should prior to connection to Input and Output. (We installed a boost guage as well on the weekend and so are getting close to ready).

El Bee

[Oosh]

Anyone else notice this thread has been linked from Autospeed?

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2440/article.html

[madmoomoo]

Sydneykid,

I've been following your progress with great interest, as it's exactly what I'm in the process of doing (hooked up IEBC today, it's sooo good. Oh, for anyone else out there doing this, I used a vent size of about 1mm to keep my low boost setting around stock - r33 gtst. I had to resolder and drill 3 times, in the end using soldering iron to make hole smaller than smallest drill bit size).

Anyway, I am next going to buy and install the DFA. You have mentioned a couple of times having trouble with the timing of the ignition from the ecu. Have you looked at the programmable ignition kit at jaycar? Because my knowledge here is pretty basic, and i'm doing all this to learn, would the ignition kit be a solution, seeing that I'll come up with the same problem with timing? If that would solve the problem, is there going to be much difference in the jaycar kits (IEBC, DFA and prog ignition kit) and an aftermarket ecu/boost setup?

Cheers.

[madmoomoo]

Oh yeah, El Bee,

I read your post about the installing of the boost control kit, and kept that in mind when putting mine together. When it was all plugged in, the screen was just green, so i unscrewed everything and looked at the wiring overlays, soldering etc. In the end, I realised that I hadn't turned the contrast up on the controller. It was all fine!

If anyone else is building the hand controller, remember to turn the contrast trimpot all the way up (i think clockwise..??) unlike me, the ditz.

hmm.. maybe the soldering fumes have made me dumb.

[Sydneykid]

Sydneykid,

I've been following your progress with great interest, as it's exactly what I'm in the process of doing (hooked up IEBC today, it's sooo good. Oh, for anyone else out there doing this, I used a vent size of about 1mm to keep my low boost setting around stock - r33 gtst. I had to resolder and drill 3 times, in the end using soldering iron to make hole smaller than smallest drill bit size).

Anyway, I am next going to buy and install the DFA. You have mentioned a couple of times having trouble with the timing of the ignition from the ecu. Have you looked at the programmable ignition kit at jaycar? Because my knowledge here is pretty basic, and i'm doing all this to learn, would the ignition kit be a solution, seeing that I'll come up with the same problem with timing? If that would solve the problem, is there going to be much difference in the jaycar kits (IEBC, DFA and prog ignition kit) and an aftermarket ecu/boost setup?

Cheers.

Hi madmoomoo, great to see another person having a go. OK on the vent size, I am still using the standard 1.25 mm which is slightly too big. This means highish duty cycles on the solenoid. I have left it that size as I will be changing from the standard exhaust and upgrading the turbo (to a GCG ball bearing hi flow) shortly. So I figured I would wait until that was finished before I optimised the vent size.

I have a couple of questions. Did you use the standard restrictor as the vent? Did you plumb the vent back into the inlet to the turbo? Have you tuned the boost curve yet? I would be interested in seeing your map if you want to post it up or PM me.

If you are talking about the Programmable Ignition Kit KC5202, I was under the impression that it only worked on cars with distributors. It was designed by Sillycoon Chump about 10 years ago and it doesn't feature in their book High Performance Electronics for Cars (the IEBC and DFA do). Maybe there is an update that I am unaware of that enables it to work with multiple coils.

As for differences with aftermarket ECU's/Boost Controllers, I picked the Jaycar IEBC because of the unique design of having the solenoid in series with the wastegate actuator. I have always considered that to be a superior method of prevent premature wastegate opening. I haven't found an aftermarket boost controller that is designed that way. The unexpected bonus was how well the source data (injector duration) enables me to program the maps to maintain the target boost high in the rpm range. The MAP sensor driven boost controllers always have some problems combining the two desirables, being earliest possible boost and maintain to redline.

As for the DFA, it works exactly the same as an SAFC and I have successfully used them in the past. The DFA has many more load points, so I had no doubt I could achieve as good (if not better) result. For 1/5th the cost of an SAFC it was an easy decision.

Don't get me wrong, these two kits are very good, work well and are so damn cost effective. But (there is always a but) I would always choose a replacement ECU (generally a Power FC) for a manual. The Stagea is an auto, so that option wasn't viable as I wanted to retain the standard shift logic.

The bottom line for me is I got a 30% power increase for ~$200 in parts, less than a day of my time and ~20 minutes tuning on the dyno. With ZERO mechanical changes, the exhaust is still standard, the compliance cat is still in place, so was the airfilter, the turbo etc. That's what I call good value for my money and time.

[resonance]

But (there is always a but) I would always choose a replacement ECU (generally a Power FC) for a manual.  The Stagea is an auto, so that option wasn't viable as I wanted to retain the standard shift logic.

SK, Why do you prefer a Power FC for a manual? Is it because then you have control over the ignition maps, whereas you don't with SAFC/DFA?

The benefit with a piggyback/interceptor solution is that then little 'features' present in the stock ECU (such as raising the RPM when Air Con is on, cold start fuel adjustments, etc) are retained. At least that's the case with Silvias etc (SR20). This is one of the arguments to go for Dr Drift tuning. Also, given the ECU hasn't been changed, ADR laws aren't broken, however they prolly are with an SAFC/DFA anyway