Jaycar Boost and Fuel Control

[PHATR32]

so would this fuel controller be anygood for a 1.6L 4 cyl laser, that i would like to supercharge? ill be using sliughtly larger injectors, so im assuming the fuel controller will allow me to tune it all properly?

steve

[Sydneykid]

SK, Why do you prefer a Power FC for a manual? Is it because then you have control over the ignition maps, whereas you don't with SAFC/DFA?

The Power FC gives me control over everything, so as well as the ignition maps (that you mentioned) there is no speed limiter, I can move the rev limit, adjust idle speeds, cold start and run, temp compensation, boost maps, adjust the dash warning levels etc etc.

The benefit with a piggyback/interceptor solution is that then little 'features' present in the stock ECU (such as raising the RPM when Air Con is on, cold start fuel adjustments, etc) are retained. At least that's the case with Silvias etc (SR20). This is one of the arguments to go for Dr Drift tuning. Also, given the ECU hasn't been changed, ADR laws aren't broken, however they prolly are with an SAFC/DFA anyway

Power FC's have all of those same as standard ECU does and they are all programmed, it's one of their big advantages. The car drives as nice, in all conditions, as it did with the standard computer. So I would never bother with an SAFC on a manual. The DFA is so cheap, it is attractive though for people on a tight budget.

Since I have only leaned out the A/F ratios with the DFA, I have no doubt it would surpass the EPA tests results that a standard one would achieve. I have not richened any load points at this stage as it simply didn't need it. Maybe after the turbo, intercooler and exhaust upgrades it might.

[madmoomoo]

Sydneykid,

With my setup, i didn't even think of using the standard restrictor - i bought a brass T-piece and soldered. At the moment it's venting to atmosphere, and I plugged the old vacuum hose up with a screw for now. I was thinking of venting back to the turbo - is it really going to make a difference to anything?

As for my maps, do you mean the settings for each value? I haven't been on a dyno at all, so i have no power maps or anything like that.

Even though there are up tp 64 programmable points, I found that I only managed to register 30 something, then it would go blank for a bit. I'll go out to the car and write out all the values a bit later and put them up here. It's only a preliminary setting, as I haven't been out for extensive drives to fine tune, but the are staying pretty damn stable at the boost settings (about 7 for low and 10 for high map).

Also, I don't really know much about ignition timing and tuning, so it's all on the todo list. I'll try and so some research and find if there are other options that might overcome timing issues.

Actually, are there any books that anyone recommend especially for tuning/engine management/efi etc?

[Sydneykid]

Sydneykid,

With my setup, i didn't even think of using the standard restrictor - i bought a brass T-piece and soldered. At the moment it's venting to atmosphere, and I plugged the old vacuum hose up with a screw for now. I was thinking of venting back to the turbo - is it really going to make a difference to anything?

As for my maps, do you mean the settings for each value? I haven't been on a dyno at all, so i have no power maps or anything like that.

Even though there are up tp 64 programmable points, I found that I only managed to register 30 something, then it would go blank for a bit.  I'll go out to the car and write out all the values a bit later and put them up here. It's only a preliminary setting, as I haven't been out for extensive drives to fine tune, but the are staying pretty damn stable at the boost settings (about 7 for low and 10 for high map).

Also, I don't really know much about ignition timing and tuning, so it's all on the todo list. I'll try and so some research and find if there are other options that might overcome timing issues.

Actually, are there any books that anyone recommend especially for tuning/engine management/efi etc?

The Stagea had a brass T piece standard, so I used that. I plumbed the vent back into the inlet, it goes via a fitting on the BOV return pipe. That way I have nothing open to atmosphere. didn't havre to block anything off. The main reason I did it was so that all of the air that went in via the AFM stays in. It was already running rich, so no sense it letting even a small amount of air escape.

By maps I mean the solenoid openings you have chosen at the various load points to maintain the boost levels that you have selected. They won't transfer to mine as you have a different size vent. But it would be interesting to compare nonetheless.

I have all of the load points available, you may have to adjust the trim (as per the instructions) to fine tune the input from the injector pulse signal.

[madmoomoo]

Ah, yes, i think I'll go plumb that spare vent back into that spare hose. kinda makes sense to not lose even a small amount of air. The R33 has a brass T piece stock as well, but i had already bought another one, so i just used it anyway.

I was doing a bit of adjusting to the maps on the way home last night, but I'll have more of a play today and hopefully have something solid to write up.

Actually, in the instructions i remember reading that you have to have the hand controller plugged in before it fires up, or you get a blank screen with a row of black squares on the top line... well it does, but last night it was also going like that by itself when it's already plugged and screwed in. Sometimes it would come back to normal after a while too! Have you found that same thing at all? I didn't know if i had a dodgy connection somewhere, so i pulled the hand controller apart and resoldered a couple of suspect joints.

I had forgotten about the trimming for the injector pulse signal. I'll reread that section before i head out today.

Thanks for all that info on the power FC too by the way.

cheers!

[Sydneykid]

Actually, in the instructions i remember reading that you have to have the hand controller plugged in before it fires up, or you get a blank screen with a row of black squares on the top line... well it does, but last night it was also going like that by itself when it's already plugged and screwed in. Sometimes it would come back to normal after a while too! Have you found that same thing at all? I didn't know if i had a dodgy connection somewhere, so i pulled the hand controller apart and resoldered a couple of suspect joints.

Yep, I have to have the Controller plugged in before I turn the ignition on. Which is a bugger actually because I have the DFA as well and I like to swap over to check/fine tune stuff. An example, coming down the freeway from Newcastle there are plenty of long uphill climbs to tune the load sensitive settings. (You can't do that very well on a flat road, as you get up to warp speed so easily.) I was sitting in the passengers side and I wanted to swap to the DFA to tune out a flattish spot. But we would have had to stop and turn the engine off, not a good idea on the freeway.

My Controller works perfectly, since I turned up the contrast I have not had one problem. Your issue sounds like a dry solder joint, most likely on the connector pins (either the Controller or the DFA inself). I would have a close look around there for any suspect joints.

[Sydneykid]

so would this fuel controller be anygood for a 1.6L 4 cyl laser, that i would like to supercharge? ill be using sliughtly larger injectors, so im assuming the fuel controller will allow me to tune it all properly?

steve

Hi Steve, I know nothing about Mazdas (well piston engined ones anyway). My only suggestion would be to get a mutimeter and check the AFM output voltages. If it has a steadily increasing (or decreasing) voltage with engine load then the DFA will work fine.

[paulr33]

hi sydneykid and others

a while ago before i had my ebc and powerfc etc i tried what you did above, i originally had the ground wire hack done which gave me 7psi all the time, but instead i bypassed the solenoid completely (like you have above) and i was able to hit 1 bar with no problems. the engine sounded like a rocket and i could hear detonation (or a form of tapping) so i backed off, i tried it a few times and could repeat would hit the full +7 on the stocker guage. Unsure why yours is only going to 0.50 bar, or perhaps why mine would just goto 1 bar? Going to 0.50bar is the stocker wastegate actuator

correct? Does this make sense?

[Sydneykid]

hi sydneykid and others

 

a while ago before i had my ebc and powerfc etc i tried what you did above, i originally had the ground wire hack done which gave me 7psi all the time, but instead i bypassed the solenoid completely (like you have above) and i was able to hit 1 bar with no problems. the engine sounded like a rocket and i could hear detonation (or a form of tapping) so i backed off, i tried it a few times and could repeat would hit the full +7 on the stocker guage. Unsure why yours is only going to 0.50 bar, or perhaps why mine would just goto 1 bar? Going to 0.50bar is the stocker wastegate actuator

correct? Does this make sense?

The standard wastegate actuator spring is ~4 psi, as that is the lowest standard boost level. To get to ~7 psi, the solenoid bypasses airflow so that the pressure at the wastegate actuator is 4 psi. This is regulated by the ECU controlling the solenoid opening. If you electrically wire up the solenoid, so that it is always open, then the max boost is limited by the amount of pressure bypassed. If you leave the plumbing exactly as per standard that appears to be ~12 psi.

The solenoid is a normally closed design, by wiring it so that it is fully open all the time you are puting it under load that it is not designed for. It will eventually overheat and fail.

Since 12 psi is higher than I would recommend for a ceramic turbine (I like to stick to 10 psi) and I didn't want my solenoid failing (I needed to use it with the IEBC) I rerouted the vacuum hoses as per the picture (and words) a couple of pages back.

Hope that makes sense:cheers:

[benl1981]

In reference to your part 2. Are you sure this is the right picture for when you remove the solenoid from the system.

I thought this might be the right way to do it. But I think I was getting a lot higher boost than before...

[benl1981]

Hey Sk in reference to your 0.5 bar solution on Page 2. I have had a few probs.

This is how I put it together at first. The restrictor you are talking about is standard in the first hose from inlet pipe to T piece right?

see pic please:

So I left that in, the only thing I changed was I put the outlet of the solenoid straight onto the T piece (the one that flows back into turbo)

Boost then rose to 3/4 on the stock gauge (where I would back off) whereas before I just had a constant earth on the sloenoid I was just above 1/2

What I think is the standard solenoid or in one of those smaller diameter hoses there is a restrictor??? Otherwise this should have worked.

I understand what I did must have bled off too much air hence the wastegate actuator sees less pressure.

I then hooked it up as you said on page2 but I didnt use the restrictor from the first bit of hose (I dont know how you would get it out without cutting the hose, maybe you can push it out with a bit of wire?)

Boost was a fair bit higher than normal.

So now it is back to stock with the solenoid earthed to give the 7-8psi.

Any thoughts/..

I don't really see how your method works now...where did you put the resrictor? In the hose to the turbo inlet? shouldnt that then make more boost than the setup that I had...

[Sydneykid]

[/img]

OK, this is the picture of the vacuum hoses. The boost pressure comes out of the intercooler return pipe (that's the big black one on the left) via the standard fitting. It travels down the vacuum hose to the standard T piece.

The right hand side of the T piece goes to the wastegate actuator via another short piece of vacuum hose. It has 2 standard spring clamps on it. So that "some" of the boost pressure goes to the wastegate actuator.

The left hand side of the T piece is connected to another (longer) piece of vacuum hose thaty goes to the standard fitting on the BOV return pipe. You can't see that fitting in the picture as it is hidden by the (big black) turbo to intercooler pipe. I squeezed the standard restrictor into that vacuum hose, it is tight fit, so be patient and use some lubricant (RP7 in my case).

The restrictor limits the amount of boost pressure that is bled off, so that the "some" pressure that goes to the wastegate actuator is actually less than the boost pressure. This means you get more boost before the wastegate opens at its usual 4-5 psi. How much more depends on the size of the hole in the restrictor, the bigger the hole the more it bypasses and the higher the boost.

The standard hole is ~1.25 mm and gave ~0.5 bar on my Stagea, which has standard everything else (no exhaust, no FMIC, std filter, etc). If you have mods, you may not get the same boost pressure, so you may have to adjust the size of the hole in the restrictor, it is brass so you can easily solder it up and redrill the hole smaller if necessary.

Hope that clarifies:cheers:

[benl1981]

OK Sk. I understand that but the restrictor you're talking about - is it in this tube or is this another one - looks like more than 1.25mm in the flesh though.

[/img]

So mine was boosting too much because I didnt have the restrictor on the to turbo inlet hose i..e too much was escaping. - But I still had it in the hose from inlet. Does the boost solenoid know how much to bleed or is there the restrictor here that I dont know about?

Many thanks

[ZILLAR5]

Hey SK .. just like to say.. Nice one Brova ! a real pleasure following your threads !

Question RE the IEB Controller .. the instructions say "dont get the two PIC Microcontrollers (IC1 & IC2) mixed up" i cant tell the diff between the two ?? they have the same code on them ??

plus i built the kit based on the instructions given (B&W) and realised afterwards that the same intructions are in color in the Project Book !!!!!

thanks

[Sydneykid]

OK Sk.  I understand that but the restrictor you're talking about - is it in this tube or is this another one - looks like more than 1.25mm in the flesh though.

So mine was boosting too much because I didnt have the restrictor on the to turbo inlet hose i..e too much was escaping. - But I still had it in the hose from inlet.  Does the boost solenoid know how much to bleed or is there the restrictor here that I dont know about?

Many thanks

Yep, on the Stagea the hole was 1.25 mm, I measured it with my verniers.

Having it in the hose from the intercooler pipe does nothing for boost limiting, it just slows down the air movement though the vacuum hose. That's why it is there, Nisssan use it for dampening the boost hits.

The ECU tells the solenoid how much air pressure to bypass, the solenoid pulses (opens) at the programmed rate.

[Sydneykid]

Hey SK .. just like to say.. Nice one Brova ! a real pleasure following your threads !

Question RE the IEB Controller .. the instructions say "dont get the two PIC Microcontrollers (IC1 & IC2) mixed up" i cant tell the diff between the two ?? they have the same code on them ??  

plus i built the kit based on the instructions given (B&W) and realised afterwards that the same intructions are in color in the Project Book !!!!!  

thanks

The PIC's are the same part number, but they have different programs loaded into them. One has a white dot painted on it, the other a white stripe, you can see them in the pictures.

Hope that helps:cheers:

[benl1981]

so that restrictor in the hose from the intercooler is the one you have utilised. So it is only coincedence that it ends up to be the right hole size to bypass enough air to hold 7-8psi like the solenoid.

As far as I can tell thesolenoid has an ECU triggered negative. Isn't it either open or shut.

[elbee111]

There are two ways of telling. First, you put both in and see whether it works. (This is how we did it because, like you, we didn't see where it showed the difference) :Oops:

Alternatively, you can see in the Jaycar parts list on page 2 it says that one is marked with a dot and the other is marked with a line.

El Bee

[Sydneykid]

so that restrictor in the hose from the intercooler is the one you have utilised.  So it is only coincedence that it ends up to be the right hole size to bypass enough air to hold 7-8psi like the solenoid.

Yeh, lucky, hey. It was coincidently the right size, most bypasses are 0.75 to 1.5 mm so not tooooooo much of a coincidence. Obviously it had to flow greater than 4 psi (the lowest std boost setting) otherwise Nissan would have needed to use a bigger hole to dampen the air flow. So I knew it would be more than 4 psi when using it as a bypass. I had a target of 0.5 bar but I would have been happy at 0.4 or 0.6 bar. It ended up right in the middle at 0.5, so no worries.

As far as I can tell thesolenoid has an ECU triggered negative. Isn't it either open or shut.

Ahhhhhh yes, but it pulses open-shut-open-shut-open-shut.............. The frequency and duration of the pulses determine how much air it bypasses.

[benl1981]

im pretty sure when I tested the grounding signal from the ECU it was at 4500rpm that it completed the circuit. i.e. sending the signal to the Solenoid to open. I also thought the signal stayed till revs dropped below 4500rpm.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks for the clarification on the restrictor