Jaycar Boost and Fuel Control

[someonestolecc]

Oosh is a legend.

It's official I missed the link underneath the db25 connector on the H/C !!!

Wow - I didn't even notice it - thanks Oosh you're a champ.

As for me getting it working earlier than you - I doubt that very very much, since now I'm looking for a solenoid.. and I don't even know if I have one let alone what it looks like!

[JaFF]

what about my other part, my turbosmart isn't electronic. Is there great benefit in going to electronic?

[MANWHORE]

The solenoid looks like the one in the performance jaycar book thingy for cars. If you follow the diagram, it shows that the solenoid should be used to bleed off some pressure stock. Follow the boost hoses.

I tried to give you a ring mate, but you didn't answer. Good to hear you got it working.

I love the feeling of solving a problem

[Sydneykid]

what about my other part, my turbosmart isn't electronic. Is there great benefit in going to electronic?

This particular design (of electronic) has several advantages, the best one for me is the ability to have ZERO boost pressure at the wastegate actuator. This means (unlike beled valves or other designs of electronic controllers) the wastegate is absolutely closed until you program it to be open. The result is the FASTEST possible boost build that your engine and turbo combination can deliver.

Your Turbosmart is simply a bleed valve, it lets some boost preessure escape so that the wastegate actuator sees a lower pressure. This means you get higher boost. BUT it alllows SOME boost pressure to get to the wastegate actuator, this means the wastegate starts opening long before your target boost pressure. So you get slower boost build.

There are many other advantages (they are in my previous posts) but for me that is the one I personally like the best:cheers:

[JaFF]

thanks mate, sounds like a worth while upgrade. currently the car seems to hit boost when it wants to. it's not consistant as to when it does it boost and as you say is pretty slow to build up.

I think I'll buy the IEBC and hand controller. IS there any other option for an EBC at this price point?

cheers

[funkymonkey]

group buy started...

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...d.php?p=1243963

[someonestolecc]

Great work funky - thanks for the groupbuy, no doubt I'll get a few mates in on this.

I have a quick question for S-Kid, or anyone who has this installed and can answer.

With the little T connector and soldered hole they get you to put in to relieve pressure after a "boost event" my question is does this bleed a tiny amount when you're on boost anyway?

S-Kid I think you said you were going to keep it a specific size because you expect to have an exhaust put on - I didn't quite understand the reasoning behind this. Why would a free-er flowing exhaust mean you have less boost stuck in that line? Is it because the assumption is after a boost event it goes out through the exhaust easier?

I'm just not too sure how to get the correct size to make sure I am relieving the pressure necessary, without losing too much.

Ta.

[Oosh]

Oosh is a legend.

It's official I missed the link underneath the db25 connector on the H/C !!!

Wow - I didn't even notice it - thanks Oosh you're a champ.

As for me getting it working earlier than you - I doubt that very very much, since now I'm looking for a solenoid.. and I don't even know if I have one let alone what it looks like!

That's great, hopefully that's the last of your woes relating to the electronics, now on to the pnuematics...

Solenoid: I used a R33 GTST item which was very kindly donated to me by NoZila despite my repeated attempts to give him money. Cheers mate!

Hosing: If using a R33 solenoid item you need to go for 4-5mm (5/32" to 3/16") inner diameter (ID) hosing, take your solenoid along and trial fit as the two barbs are very close together and if the hoising outer diameter (OD) is too large you'll struggle to fit both with hose clamps.

T-piece: I got a brass item which was for 1/4" ID hose because i DIDN'T trial fit my hose first, but i stretched the smaller diameter hose over it no worries.

Bleed Restriction: You have several options in order of complexity and cost, solder up the brass T-piece, add a bit of hose with a restrictor, add a needle valve.

I went with second item as i don't presently have access to a drill and didn't find a valve right away (I'm also worried about vibrations changing the opening size).

When i was @ supercheap i found a plastic 6mm -> 3mm adator (for $1 on clearance), the whole inside the 3mm is ~1.5mm, so shoved that inside a length of hose and attached it to the T.

I plumbed it all in last night and it looks a little something like this:

             Atmo (or plumback)

              ^

              |

            |   |       ____________

            |   |      |            |

Restrictor-> |/ |      |            |

            || ||      |  Solenoid  |

            |   |      |            |

            |   |      |__        __|

            || ||"T"            /

_____________ | | _________ |    |

         ____| |____   ___/     |

<-- OUT  ___________   ___      |

_____________     _________     |

                           |    |

___________________________ |    |

                       ___/     |

 IN -->                ___      |

________________________________|

Obviously the solenoid is upside down, I disconnected the hose from the actuator and that becomes "IN", then i ran hose from the "OUT" back to the actuator completing the "loop".

I've only set it up very roughly (wires are a mess atm) and made some conservative map settings (very quickly done) but i must say the car "feels" better, enough to not just chalk it up to "placebo effect", boost builds faster and with the stock turbo I'm running the power delivery feels much more progressive.

It's holding 12psi relatively well and doesn't seem to spike over 13psi, I need to get up in to the hills and spend more time on-road tuning, and then some final tweaks on the dyno are scheduled for early April.

[B-Man]

Hi SK - Since the IEBC used injector duty cycle in it algorithm to control 'stuff' - do you think that this would work with a diesel turbo ?

Bump ?? I guess that means no-one knows ??

[Sydneykid]

Bump ?? I guess that means no-one knows ??

If it is an electronically injected diesel it will work. If it is mechanical injection it won't. How do you tell? If the injectors have wires hanging out of the them, then they are electronic. If there is only fuel connections to the injectors, then they are mechanical. No big deal, diesels work quite well with bleeed valves.

[C_DawG]

No big deal, diesels work quite well with bleeed valves.

I beleive its best to advance the pump then adjust the boost suit, on mechanical injected bangers atleast.

[B-Man]

Thanks guys - back OT now.

[medi_evil]

hey just wondering would this work for the older cars as well...like 31 skyline

[someonestolecc]

It should work as long as-

You have a turbo, wastegate and you "splice" in a solenoid with a "restricter" between the solenoid and the wastegate and you can find your injector wire from your computer.

If you need more explanation PM me or ask here.

[xRHETTx]

I'm going to install this system in my r32 gtst over the easter break, could someone explain why you need to bleed off air from the solenoid outlet? And why you need a restrictor?

Shouldnt the solenoid just stop the air until you hit the desired boost, then let the air through to open the wastegate? Or have a missed something?

[someonestolecc]

Gday Rhett,

This was explained to me, so I can't take credit for having understood it on my own...

Basically the restrictor/bleed peice acts to let off pressure built up between the normally closed solenoid and the wastegate actuator.

When the actuator feels boost pressure (such as when your on boost) it will get to a certain pressure and then "actuate", to move the shaft that in turn opens the wastegate, letting pressure out around the turbine and keeping you at the stock boost level.

When you put in the solenoid as part of this kit, it will be normally closed, so after you've been boosting and take your foot off the accell, the solenoid will shut. This traps the pressured air between the wastegate actuator and the shut solenoid, because that has nowhere to go (as it's not stuck between the actual wastegate itself, only the actuator) it will sit between the solenoid and actuator and keep your wastegate open, which means you will have absolutely NO boost because the wastegate actuator thinks you're on boost, and is keeping the wastegate open.

Hope that makes sense.

[inissane]

i have soldered up the IEBC and hand controller kits and found a solenoid off a blitz boost controller, and I have some questions if any one is kind enough to share their knowledge. Hopefully someone knows some of this!

Would this Blitz boost control solenoid likely be fast reacting and hence require increasing the pulse frequency of the IEBC? Is it likely to have a good duty cycle range?

It has three connections so I guess I block one off?

Any ideas where I can source a brass T piece?

[Sydneykid]

Would this Blitz boost control solenoid likely be fast reacting and hence require increasing the pulse frequency of the IEBC?

No idea, I can only suggest you try it.

Is it likely to have a good duty cycle range?

Yep

It has three connections so I guess I block one off?

You will have to work out which is the normally closed port, simply blow into each port and find the one that doesn't flow. Then apply 12 volts and make sure that port opens and block off the one that doesn't have any airflow.

Any ideas where I can source a brass T piece

Auto-One, AutoPro, Repco, AutoBarn basically anyone, but SupaCheap (they only have plastic ones).

Hope that is of some help:cheers:

[benl1981]

Sorry to deviate a little - but sk, when you put that 1-1.5mm boostrestrictor/pressure leveler in the hose that bleeds air back into turbo inlet (where solenoid used to be) did the boost spike much? I hear people with pneumatic boost controllers having 1-2psi spike. I was going to replace the solenoid with a simple needle valve so I dont wreck the solenoid and then I can adjust boost to 10psi. This should have the same result as you putting this orifice type piece in that hose I would imagine except the hole size would then be adjustable, hence contolling how much air is bled and hence the boost the engine sees. I just dont want boost to spike too much if possible.

[Sydneykid]

Sorry to deviate a little - but sk, when you put that 1-1.5mm boostrestrictor/pressure leveler in the hose that bleeds air back into turbo inlet (where solenoid used to be) did the boost spike much?  I hear people with pneumatic boost controllers having 1-2psi spike.   I was going to replace the solenoid with a simple needle valve  so I dont wreck the solenoid and then I can adjust boost to 10psi.  This should have the same result as you putting this orifice type piece in that hose I would imagine except the hole size would then be adjustable, hence contolling how much air is bled and hence the boost the engine sees.  I just dont want boost to spike too much if possible.

By using the standard restrictor as a bleed off, I didn't have very rapid boost build. In fact it was quite gentle, as the restrictor bleeds off the same amount of airflow all the time. Plus it is routed back into the inlet to the turbo which means it has progressive (but minor) vacuum applied to it. Consequently I had zero boost spiking. This method works quite well at 7-8 psi and removes the low boost (4 psi) which is the main reason I did it. I would not be confident for boost levels over 12 psi as a whole new set of aerodynamics are involved.

I don't see why a needle valve wouldn't work the same, but I am not in any way an expert in aerodynamics. The effect of temperature on needle valves should not be underestimated. Again it would depend on the boost target,

Hope that is of some help:cheers: