Jaycar Boost and Fuel Control

[tang0]

got the te-wb2a0

4m cable

7057 connector

lsu-7057 sensor

and yeah, your right, it was a little more, $342 total inc shipping and gst ...

not really thoguht a gerat deal about a clamp, will cross that bridge when i got to it ... by that time will have a welder so should be able to knock someting up fairly easily ...

i like the fact that there is a yahoo group that seems to be very active .. lots of people seem to contribute ...

the reason i chose the 2a0 was i only wanted the laptop connection for logging, on board logging is a fairly straight forward upgrade at a later date should i want it for anything else ...

will kieep you updated on the build progress ...

I had a look at Tech Edge a few months ago, so I will be very interested in how the kit goes together and how it works in the field.

Did you get the 2EO kit?

The Bosch 7057 lambda sensor?

Sensor Connector?

The long (4m) cable?

What are you doing for an exhaust ventury clamp?

Or are you going to plumb the lambda sensor direct into the engine pipe?

When I priced it all up it was $374 (inc insurance, postage and GST).  For around $150 more I could get the LM1, ready to go.  So I am not sure which is the right decision.

[ian]

When I priced it all up it was $374 (inc insurance, postage and GST).  For around $150 more I could get the LM1, ready to go.  So I am not sure which is the right decision.

So that means you're selling the LM1 with everything you need for about $520?

well, i just went and bought myself a wbo2 kit, will take a while to get it all together, but basically its a wide band o2 sensor (bosch) all the electronic gizmos, and it plugs into your laptop for data logging ....

also it has 2 or 4 inputs for more logging ...

all up only cost about $300

will keep you updated with the build process

cheers

Yep, keep us all informed! :-)

[Sydneykid]

got the te-wb2a0

4m cable

7057 connector

lsu-7057 sensor

and yeah, your right, it was a little more, $342 total inc shipping and gst ...

not really thoguht a gerat deal about a clamp, will cross that bridge when i got to it ... by that time will have a welder so should be able to knock someting up fairly easily ...

i like the fact that there is a yahoo group that seems to be very active .. lots of people seem to contribute ...  

the reason i chose the 2a0 was i only wanted the laptop connection for logging, on board logging is a fairly straight forward upgrade at a later date should i want it for anything else ...

will kieep you updated on the build progress ...

OK, you don't think you will need the display, I was thinking for $25 extra for the 2E0 might be wortwhile. Please let me know how it goes.

[tang0]

with it plugged into the laptop, that'll give me all the display i need ... i already have a nice ultra portable laptop for logging that i have a car power adapter for ...

the software they write for it looks to be fairly decent as well ...

[Sydneykid]

So that means you're selling the LM1 with everything you need for about $520?)

Nice try Ian, we recently sold one, it went with an engine to a place that has no dynos. So we only have the Autronic left, which ain't goin' nowhere. I have ordered a replacement LM1 ($US349.99 RRP) and an RPM cable (RPM plus 5 logging channels) for ($US80 extra). I already have a ventury clamp, which is a must have for low rpm tuning on a car with large exhaust diameter. Otherwise a little ambient air sneaks back around the lambda sensor and hence it gives a leaner reading than is actually the case.

I like building electronic kits, so I might just cancel that LM1 order and get one form Tech Edge. That's why I am interested in Tango's project.

[Loop]

got the te-wb2a0

4m cable

7057 connector

lsu-7057 sensor

the reason i chose the 2a0 was i only wanted the laptop connection for logging, on board logging is a fairly straight forward upgrade at a later date should i want it for anything else ...

From reading the wbo2 website, the logging eprom is now included in the kit, a big US$6 saving

[tang0]

well, the kit arrived on tuesday, didnt have a chance to open the packaging, but cracked it open this morning, and took some pics of the kit, as below.

kit impressions :

packaging is good

components all laid out very well

all resistors have their values marked on the piece of card attached to the end of the leg - this is great and greatly cuts down the chance of a mistake !

there seems to be all hardware required included

very little documentation came with the package, but the website more than make up for the amount of information available....

now just have to build the thing !

[B-Man]

I am wondering.... - If I get the Jaycar A/F ratio kit that links up to my std O2 sensor (the kit that displays the A/F ratio as a digital readout - not the led one) - but instead of hooking it up to the stock sensor, I buy a fast wide sensor - will this work ? I don't see why not as long as the Fast Wide sensor outputs between 0-1V. The only other question is if the Jaycar kit could keep up with the probe. I've got a kit at home - will read the instructions/specs to see what sampling rate it measures at.

[tang0]

i think they have been looked at before and they are not fast enough, and only go down to 11.8 ... a pretty cheap option to try it out ...

[resonance]

I am wondering.... - If I get the Jaycar A/F ratio kit that links up to my std O2 sensor (the kit that displays the A/F ratio as a digital readout - not the led one) - but instead of hooking it up to the stock sensor, I buy a fast wide sensor - will this work ? I don't see why not as long as the Fast Wide sensor outputs between 0-1V. The only other question is if the Jaycar kit could keep up with the probe. I've got a kit at home - will read the instructions/specs to see what sampling rate it measures at.

This setup will not give correct readings, because although as you said, it reads 0-1V, the mapping of A/F Ratio-to-voltage is very different between std O2 and wide-band O2 sensors. The standard one gives a voltage output that looks like an s-bend, whilst the wide-band'er gives a straightish round curve (as A/F goes from 7:1 - 17:1 or so).

[B-Man]

Yeah - I know that now...

I had a look on the Techedge web site - they have instructions on how to modify the Jaycar A/F ratio meter to work with a wideband sensor - looks like a lot of hard work but - They even used to sell these as kits - but I think they have stopped production.

But for tuning for moderate power with small mods (say 150-170rwkw) would the narrow/slow Jaycar kit be ok ? I mean yeah you won't see fast response - but if you kept your loadpoint for a few secs until the meter read correctly it would still be fairly accurate ?????

I know it's better to log then adjust -

[CEF11E]

I just got back from having the car tuned on the dyno with the DFA. and i now have a result i know is safe and will use a lot less fuel.

It took about an hour and lots of runs because i have never tuned a car before so it was a learning process for me

First I confirmed the o2 sensor was working by checking mixtures at idle and light throttle. bang on 14.5...

as soon as you accelerate it goes rich and dosent use the o2 sensor. So we did a power run (the blue line on the dyno sheet below) rich as buggary:0

while we did the power run i was mapping where the load points were at what rpm.

example:

idle 27-29

3000 60-62

3500 67-70

4000 73-77

and wrote them all down. once that was done we looked at where it needed leaning out and went into view mode and started making changes at the load points needed wich was evrywhere at first. then did a power run.

then looked at the graph. and repeated the process.

The result i got was quite good all things considering.

I kept it a bit rich because i am not chasing power really just better fuel economy and i dont have an intercooler so i didn't want it to ping.

the only bit i would have liked to fix was the damn 5200~5400 fuel dump. i tried 3 runs to fix it and it got better every time but i just couldn't get rid of it entirley.

all up the car drives better is more responsive and there is more power everywhere. and it uses less fuel!!!

my car is a 1988 Nissan Gloria VG20det auto no intercooler

my mods are pod filter, 10psi boost, catback exhaust and thats it!

pretty good power for a standard car! especially considering its auto!!!

B-Man LOOK WHAT I DID TO YOUR CAR!!! hehe!!

i love it mate its a top little car i look after it dont worry

[Sydneykid]

I just got back from having the car tuned on the dyno with the DFA. and i now have a result i know is safe and will use a lot less fuel.

It took about an hour and lots of runs because i have never tuned a car before so it was a learning process for me

First I confirmed the o2 sensor was working by checking mixtures at idle and light throttle. bang on 14.5...

as soon as you accelerate it goes rich and dosent use the o2 sensor. So we did a power run (the blue line on the dyno sheet below) rich as buggary:0

while we did the power run i was mapping where the load points were at what rpm.

example:

idle 27-29

3000 60-62

3500 67-70

4000 73-77

and wrote them all down. once that was done we looked at where it needed leaning out and went into view mode and started making changes at the load points needed wich was evrywhere at first. then did a power run.

then looked at the graph. and repeated the process.

The result i got was quite good all things considering.

I kept it a bit rich because i am not chasing power really just better fuel economy and i dont have an intercooler so i didn't want it to ping.

the only bit i would have liked to fix was the damn 5200~5400 fuel dump. i tried 3 runs to fix it and it got better every time but i just couldn't get rid of it entirley.

all up the car drives better is more responsive and there is more power everywhere. and it uses less fuel!!!  

my car is a 1988 Nissan Gloria VG20det auto no intercooler

my mods are pod filter, 10psi boost, catback exhaust and thats it!

pretty good power for a standard car! especially considering its auto!!!

That's a good result, well done for a first time effort at tuning. Can you please post up your load point corrections. It will be a helpful reference.

I think you may have achieved more than the graph shows, with no intercooler it was probably heating up the inlet airflow after 4 power runs. This would have dropped the last run's power reading.

Since I added the adjustable exhaust camshaft pulley (4 degrees retarded) the Stagea has been hitting the ECU R&R (softly) at around 3,500 rpm. This would be due to the extra airflow sensed by the AFM. So last night I popped in a few extra corrections around load point 80/85, not much just a couple here or there to see if it stopped the pesky ECU going R&R.

The big news is I bought an Apexi SITC today, so I can have a go at changing the ignition timing independantly.

So the Stagea is going to have a glove box full of piggy backs:cheers:

PS; should I start a new thread for the SITC install and tuning? Or carry on with it in this thread?

[marc2]

That's a good result, well done for a first time effort at tuning.  Can you please post up your load point corrections.  It will be a helpful reference.

I think you may have achieved more than the graph shows, with no intercooler it was probably heating up the inlet airflow after 4 power runs.  This would have dropped the last run's power reading.  

Since I added the adjustable exhaust camshaft pulley (4 degrees retarded) the Stagea has been hitting the ECU R&R (softly) at around 3,500 rpm.  This would be due to the extra airflow sensed by the AFM.  So last night I popped in a few extra  corrections around load point 80/85, not much just a couple here or there to see if it stopped the pesky ECU going R&R.

The big news is I bought an Apexi SITC today, so I can have a go at changing the ignition timing independantly.

So the Stagea is going to have a glove box full of piggy backs:cheers:

PS; should I start a new thread for the SITC install and tuning?  Or carry on with it in this thread?

Gary,

I would strongly recommend a new thread.

The reason being that you are extremely accurate and concise in your work and I am assuming this 'project' will generate as much interest as the JAYCAR project.

Just imagine how long this thread would become, let alone trying to find a specific piece of info within.

Regards,

Marc2

[CEF11E]

Aieech!!

tuning 2 piggybacks is that difficult? and will it require lots of dyno time?

I would think you would get the fueling close to right.

then do the timing just enough to stop the ecu from going rich and retard.

then get the AFR's perfect.

then get your timing perfect.

how much was the SITC? I have never seen one before.

[Sydneykid]

OK, following Marcs advice, so a new thread on SITC started.

[B-Man]

CEF11E - Top news on the Gloria mate - I didn't realize that was you until you gave me a trader rating today - Ha ha ha - Sorry about that !

Glad the Gloria is doing well. 170 rwhp is a pretty respectible effort.

Hey is 10 PSI stock boost ? I never got around to checking ??

It's really great to see that you are treating each other well (You and Gloria that is)

Cheers mate.

PS - I am back on the road in a few weeks with an R32 4door GTS4 - There is something about me an unique cars - I luv em !

[Sydneykid]

Aieech!!

tuning 2 piggybacks is that difficult? and will it require lots of dyno time?

I would think you would get the fueling close to right.

then do the timing just enough to stop the ecu from going rich and retard.

then get the AFR's perfect.

then get your timing perfect.

how much was the SITC? I have never seen one before.

No more tricky than tuning a PFC, lots fewer load points offset by the DFA advancing while it is leaning (one change = 2 effects). I haven't found the ignition timing on its own affects the ECU R&R, except for its ability to increase airflow from more efficient running. It's the DFA that stops the R&R by reducing the AFM voltage that the ECU sees.

You really have to do both at once if the amount of AFM voltage drop needed to get the A/F ratios right causes the ignition to be too far advanced and the engine pre-ignites. So you have to use the SITC to stop the pre-ignition, by retarding the ignition timing. If you don't have to correct this over advancing, then you can use the SITC to advance the ignition to a point just prior to pre-ignition.

However it can develop into a go round if you are not careful and think about how much correction is required. The SITC was around $200, there is one on Ebay for $US199, which is top dollar at the moment. But as soon as the word spreads, I bet the price goes up, just like RB20DET wastegate actuators and R34GTT intercoolers.

[mokompri]

well after an exhausting 20 pages, i have read the whole thread, very nice info indeed..

im going to purchase the IEBC and give the thing a go on my sr20det

one thing i have to add, is that i noticed you guys are running a sort of 'bleed' to overcome the issue with the trapped air between the solenoid and the wastegate. this is the same issue that JE came across when he made his audi pneumatic boost controller with the pressure regulator and pressure relief valve, and the solution was a one way valve going from the regulator (in this case solenoid) to wastegate line, feeding back to the pre relief valve (in this case solenoid) boost/vacuum line. when you pull off the throttle and the pressure differential reaches above the cracking pressure of the one way valve, it will dump the pressurised air trapped in that hose back into the intake.

this will save the hassle of finding the right size hole that bleeds just the right amount, stops any air from being vented to atmosphere, and i would say should making tuning of the IEBC somewhat easier and more predictable because there is no air being bled out of the system.

heres a diagram of how it should be hooked up:

when your on boost, the pressure pre solenoid will be greater then or equal to post solenoid, so therefore the one way valve will stay shut at this point, and allow the solenoid to function normally.

[AlexCim]

Ok,

Well i have done my boost controller install and tune this weekend.

I have to admit, its very very good at holding boost. I have however some odd problems. I also find that my stag stuggles to hold boost a bit. I had to drop the duty cycles at high rpms quite a bit to get it at the right boost. I want to use 9-10psi, and at 5500 i need a duty cycle of about 64 to keep that, where at 4000rpm its up at 80. Is that difference too big? (sign of turbo wear or something?)

First, teh stagea is 100% standard but an autometer boost gauge and a pipercross filter.

Anyway, my other problem. I get boost spikes. I have hooked it up all right, but between 1 and 2, i get boost spikes to about 12psi. I was thinking this could be due to the fact that my vent isnt big enough/or too big? The above idea looks good, but where do i buy such a 1 way valve to plumb it in? I think i will do it like above.