Jaycar Boost and Fuel Control

[xRHETTx]

Are you using the multimeter properly? The pic you posted is all good. When you vary the pot, the voltage measured across the input wire (green) and the earth wire (black) should vary also, from very small up to 12V.

[Andi]

load sharing ..whats that

Some solenoids (NOT the standard Nissan ones) don't like being held open for long periods of time and they get hot. So you use the 10 ohm 10 watt resistor in series with the solenoid to "share" the load. That way the solenoid draws less current and doesn't get too hot.

PS; for more details refer to page 142 of the book "Performance Electronics for Cars".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm I put the resistor in series with my GTiR stock solenoid already. It was getting hot when I left it connected to a 12V power source for about 10-15mins. Can I still just leave the resistor in place?

Also, whats this "tuning" for the iEBC and solenoid? I don't have a DMM with frequency readouts so how am I suppose to tune the iEBC? Can I just put it in without the tuning?

[emanuelt]

Thanks xRHETTx it is all good except for VR2. Using my car battery step 4, Adjust VR2 so that the output is 12V. PROBLEM is when I adjust VR2 it only winds up to 9.2 V's can't get it to 12V??? and it winds all the way down to ab out 2V's?? Any idea's?

I think i'll give silicon chip a ring.

OK don't do what I was trying to do and calibrate it using 12V as it is a 1V air voltage signal wind test pod to 1V not 12V. (still use car battery though) All working now.

Edited August 15, 2005 by emanuelt

[chrissso]

This thread is great and I shallbe buying the EBC to see if I can fix a problem that I have.

SK - I have a couple of quick questions for you if I may.

q.1, I have a dump pipe on my turbo (R33 s1 man) and with no solenoid connected, I get 6 PSI at 2200rpm to 4000rpm. After that the boost rises to 10PSI at about 6000rpm. I have researched this problem and it would seem that the factory wastegate is not able to waste enough ehaust to keep the PSI at 6.

I want 10 PSI throughout the rev range and if I fit a bleed valve it brings the low rpm boost to 10 but the the boost still creeps up to about 14PSI. - too much.

So, the question is do you think that the ebc will be able to get my 10psi at low revs and then by opening the solenoid up further at high revs, keep the psi at 10? All the reading I've done indicates that it would - it would be a case of tuning exactly the opposite to what you have done in the higher revs.

Q. 2, I've been looking into the Apexi safc and one of it features is that it will stop overfuelling for atmospheric BOV's. Any Idea how this works? would the DFA do anything here?

Q.3, I also have a FMIC and the safc also claims to even out the eratic idle caused by front mounts.. Any idea's here?

I'm lookin at buying the DFA now after reading this thread but maybe the safc is what I need because of some of the extra's that I have. In the end, I can't justify the extra money for a safc to stop overfuelling and a slightly bad idle. This DFA would be a good idea though untill I get to a stage where I would probably buy a Power FC.

Also, thanks to SK and everyone for an entertaining read - I've just ordered the performance electrics book. :lol:

Chris

[Sydneykid]

This thread is great and I shallbe buying the EBC to  see if I can fix a problem that I have.

SK - I have a couple of quick questions for you if I may.

q.1,  I have a dump pipe on my turbo (R33 s1 man) and with no solenoid connected,  I get 6 PSI at 2200rpm to 4000rpm.  After that the boost rises to 10PSI at about 6000rpm.   I have researched this problem and it would seem that the factory wastegate is not able to waste enough ehaust to keep the PSI at 6.

I want 10  PSI throughout the rev range and if I fit a bleed valve it brings the low rpm boost to 10 but the the boost still creeps up to about 14PSI.  - too much.

So, the question is do you think that the ebc will be able to get my 10psi at low revs and then by opening the solenoid  up further at high revs, keep the psi at 10?  All the reading I've done indicates that it would - it would be a case of tuning exactly the opposite to what you have done in the higher revs.

Q. 2,  I've been looking into the Apexi safc and one of it features is that it will stop overfuelling for atmospheric BOV's.  Any Idea how this works? would the DFA do anything here?

Q.3,  I also have a FMIC and the safc also claims to even out the eratic idle caused by front mounts..  Any idea's here?

Q4 I'm lookin at buying the DFA now after reading this thread but maybe the safc is what I need because of some of the extra's that I have.  In the end, I can't justify the extra money for a safc to stop overfuelling and a slightly bad idle.  This DFA would be a good idea though untill I get to a stage where I would probably buy a Power FC.

Also, thanks to SK and everyone for an entertaining read - I've just ordered the performance electrics book.    :lol:

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Suggest follow;

1. What turbo is this? What wastegate? If it is a high flow, talk to whoever did it and ask them whether they upgraded the wastegate. Some cheap high flows leave the standard wastegate, which is too small.

I don't think anything will fix this if the wastegate is too small. Check this out by locking the wategate fully open (piece of wire). If the boost still climbs then refer to the above.

2. "Over fueling" just means it runs too rich on return to idle. The DFA is just as good as an SAFC at bending AFM voltages, in fact with 125 load points it is arguably better.

3. Erratic idle caused by FMIC? Sounds like bog load of BS to me. Never experienced it, and I have fitted 20 or more FMIC's. Erratic idle is caused by poor tuning, or the most common = air leaks.

4. I have found no "extras" on an SAFC, other than the blue screen of course.

The DFA is a good cost effective device, but it is ONLY an AFM voltage bender, same as an SAFC. So it is a compromise, the PFC is far superior solution for a manual. If you have an upgrade plan, then get the PFC and stop fooling around with compromises.

cheers

[chrissso]

Suggest follow;

1. What turbo is this?  What wastegate? If it is a high flow, talk to whoever did it and ask them whether they upgraded the wastegate.  Some cheap high flows leave the standard wastegate, which is too small.

I don't think anything will fix this if the wastegate is too small.  Check this out by locking the wategate fully open (piece of wire).  If the boost still climbs then refer to the above.

cheers 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SK - I bought the car not long ago with all mods mentioned and I'm pretty sure that its a standard turbo and std wastegate.

My resarch is only from internet and is mostly hear say so it could be BS.

I picked up something along the lines of " a dump pipe makes the std turbo breath better and need a bigger waste gate.."

My therory is that the ibc will be able to increase boost down low and then provide std boost up high which is 10psi on my car, up high.

Maybe the actuator is buggered. It will open all the way when you pull it.

Maybe I need a softer spring?

Any ideas?

I will try locking the wastegate open...

Thanks!

[Sydneykid]

SK - I bought the car not long ago with all mods mentioned and I'm pretty sure that its a standard turbo and std wastegate.

My resarch is only from internet and is mostly hear say so it could be BS.

I picked up something along the lines of " a dump pipe makes the std turbo breath better and need a bigger waste gate.."

My therory is that the ibc will be able to increase boost down low and then provide std boost up high which is 10psi on my car, up high.

Maybe the actuator is buggered.  It will open all the way when you pull it.

Maybe I need a softer spring?

Any ideas?

  I will try locking the wastegate open...

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my, who wrote that crap? :lol:

"a dump pipe makes the std turbo breath better and need a bigger waste gate.."

A decent dump pipe actually makes the wastegate outlet flow easier. So the boost control (by the wastegate) is actualy better when you improve the dump. If you look at a standard Skyline dump you can see how it blocks the wastegate outlet much more than it blocks the turbine outlet.

If the turbo is standard then chances are the wategate actuator is standard (ie; ~7psi for an R33 and ~10psi for an R32). It should work fine, I would check the wastegate operation as already suggested plus have a good look at the vacuum hoses. Plenty of errors found in that area on previous occasions.

cheers

[Andi]

Some solenoids (NOT the standard Nissan ones) don't like being held open for long periods of time and they get hot. So you use the 10 ohm 10 watt resistor in series with the solenoid to "share" the load. That way the solenoid draws less current and doesn't get too hot.

PS; for more details refer to page 142 of the book "Performance Electronics for Cars".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm I put the resistor in series with my GTiR stock solenoid already. It was getting hot when I left it connected to a 12V power source for about 10-15mins. Can I still just leave the resistor in place?

Also, whats this "tuning" for the iEBC and solenoid? I don't have a DMM with frequency readouts so how am I suppose to tune the iEBC? Can I just put it in without the tuning?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anybody?

[Sydneykid]

Hmm I put the resistor in series with my GTiR stock solenoid already. It was getting hot when I left it connected to a 12V power source for about 10-15mins. Can I still just leave the resistor in place?

I don't hink you are going to have the solenoid fully open (100% duty cycle) for 10-15 minutes when you are driving. That amount of time on full boost results in very fast KPH. Have you teted it for 1 minute with no resistor? If you can still touch it with your fingers then it's fine, install it and move on.

Also, whats this "tuning" for the iEBC and solenoid? I don't have a DMM with frequency readouts so how am I suppose to tune the iEBC? Can I just put it in without the tuning?

Do you have the book? The instructions on how to tune the pulsing frequency are on page 143.

I would be very surpised if you would need to change the pulsing freguency from the default 10 mhz. I have tried a number of Nissan solenoids and they all work fine at that frequency.

Hope that was of some help

cheers

[Andi]

Thanks SK!

Looks like I won't have to tune the stock solenoid then.

Oh and I guess I should remove the resistor I put in as well? I thought my solenoid was a 'normally open' sloenoid. :oops:

[emanuelt]

I seem to have missed where it says how to tell the diffence with IC1 and IC2 in the IEBC. one has a white dot one has a white stripe which is which?

Both chips have PIC16F628A-20P

Edited August 17, 2005 by emanuelt

[Andi]

Ok guys I've ran into a little problem. The DFA is sort of playing up on me. So I've connected everything needed to the DFA (AFM wire from AFM to input, and to ECU connected to output, 12V on ignition and ground on chassis).

When the car is running with the DFA off everything is fine, however as soon as I turn the DFA on it starts revving higher and won't come down. I played around with the AFM connections and it seems to do this when the AFM wire connections are moved abit (I'm using bullet connectors).

Would anybody know whats happening? I've tested the DFA on the bench already and it seems to work fine, although I'm running the test again now. Could it be because I'm using the chassis as a ground?

Thanks,

Andy

P.S My car has low impedance peak-and-hold injectors and I connected the IEBC without the peak injector kit and it seems to read fine. :S It's about 6 input at idle and when I rev it abit it jumps up, but its not randomly changing numbers. This means the IEBC is working correctly right?

[chrissso]

  Ok guys I've ran into a little problem. The DFA is sort of playing up on me. So I've connected everything needed to the DFA (AFM wire from AFM to input, and to ECU connected to output, 12V on ignition and ground on chassis).

When the car is running with the DFA off everything is fine, however as soon as I turn the DFA on it starts revving higher and won't come down. I played around with the AFM connections and it seems to do this when the AFM wire connections are moved abit (I'm using bullet connectors).

Would anybody know whats happening? I've tested the DFA on the bench already and it seems to work fine, although I'm running the test again now. Could it be because I'm using the chassis as a ground?

I Hate bullet connections, I found that when I used them I had all sorts of problems from missed crimps and erratic connections.

Use solder and heat shrink tubes or electrical tape. I haven't had problems with this.

It might not solve your problem but at least you know you won't lose the AFM signal if the bullet joint get accidentally separated at full boost. - IMO bullet joint is your issue... bad or no connection.

Chassis should work for ground...

Edited August 18, 2005 by chrissso

[Andi]

Thanks for that Chris, I think it may actually be the bullet connection but I just dont understand why it runs fine when the DFA is off and then goes stupid when the DFA is on.

I'm using connectors so that I can revert back to the stock AFM setup if something goes wrong with the AFM.

[Sydneykid]

Ok guys I've ran into a little problem. The DFA is sort of playing up on me. So I've connected everything needed to the DFA (AFM wire from AFM to input, and to ECU connected to output, 12V on ignition and ground on chassis).

When the car is running with the DFA off everything is fine, however as soon as I turn the DFA on it starts revving higher and won't come down. I played around with the AFM connections and it seems to do this when the AFM wire connections are moved abit (I'm using bullet connectors).

Would anybody know whats happening? I've tested the DFA on the bench already and it seems to work fine, although I'm running the test again now. Could it be because I'm using the chassis as a ground?

Thanks,

Andy

P.S My car has low impedance peak-and-hold injectors and I connected the IEBC without the peak injector kit and it seems to read fine. :S It's about 6 input at idle and when I rev it abit it jumps up, but its not randomly changing numbers. This means the IEBC is working correctly right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am slightly confused, let me see if I can help.........

The DFA is wired in series with the AFM, it goes

AFM-------->(input)DFA(output)-------->ECU

ie; you have to cut the AFM wire to the ECU and connect it as above. If the DFA is turned off the car shouldn't run as there is no AFM signal getting through to the ECU.

Re; the IEBC and P&H injectors, I suggest you drive it around for a while and watch the display before signing off that the IEBC is somehow miraculously reading the P&H signals correctly. The IEBC on the Stagea sits at mid 30's on idle, 6 is very low injector duty. I would need to put ~1400cc injectors in the Stagea before it would read less than 10 at idle.

Hope that helps

cheers

PS; I use bullet connectors all the time, never had a problem. Most Apexi stuff comes with bullet connectors standard (eg; refer the SITC thread), so I am not alone in having confidence in them. Race cars wiring connections are almost never soldered, they crack under the vibration.

Edited August 18, 2005 by Sydneykid

[Andi]

Thats exactly how its connected SK, and I just removed the bullet conenctors then. Still same thing, with the DFA on its reading fine and when the 12V is connected it goes stupid.

I measured the voltages from both sides. The input side of the DFA (coming from AFM) would read 0v and the output (to ECU) would read ~3.4V, if the DFA is off then both sides read an even ~1.3-1.4V

[Andi]

Also SK, I hope you don't mind helping me about abit. I've arleady built the P&H Injectors Kit but haven't installed yet. Reading the fitting instructions I'm confused on how I'm suppose to install it, pg.108 iirc, it says I have to use the 12V-feed side of the injectors instead of the switched side or something.

Would you be able to have a quick whizz through the fitting part for it and tell me how I'm suppose to connect it? Do I just cut the ECU injector wire and go from there?

[tstg23r]

Hey dude, i have an r32 gtst sedan and we also have the Jcar boost controller and hand controller, we are fitting it soon, just bought a r33 gtr boost control solenoid. Let me know how you go

[elbee111]

I seem to have missed where it says how to tell the diffence with IC1 and IC2 in the IEBC. one has a white dot one has a white stripe which is which?

Both chips have PIC16F628A-20P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are mentioned in the parts list as dot and line.

IC1=dot

El Bee

[emanuelt]

Thanks for the help people, DFA installed and working finally.

Now to the IEBC, installed to to my car, hand controller working great, put in SK inputs just to see what it does, BOOSTing way too high, I have no control over boost at all, input make no difference, have to drive home slow so it will not over boost? HELP

Here are a couple of diagrams 1 wirering, 2 hoses. Pics have been revised so should be right now..

Edited August 19, 2005 by emanuelt