why so slow?

[siksII]

went to wsid last night for the first time to race

Here is my best 1/4mile time:

Air Temp : 29

60' 2.378

MPH 97.75

ET 14.685

i think it is to do with a couple of things:

1.crap 60' partly due to 255/40/17 tyres with very stiff sidewalls (running 38psi)

2.slow gearchange into 3rd (missed it on a previous run, did not want to risk it again)

3. it was boiling hot earlier(35 degrees) and the car was very hot, also have stock airbox with no snorkel so sucking hot air.

4. suspension not helping, i have coilovers and they dont let the car squat much.

car:

r33 gtst

fmic

3" full exhaust

exh adjust. cam gear

powerfc

10psi

17" rims

brass buttom clutch

what do you think?

i figure if i at least 2/10ths off the 60" it would drop the time to 14.2 which is still slowish i guess.

[benm]

1. Drop your tyres pressures to ~20psi.

2. Install 'pineapples' (~$110) for better squat.

3. Drive the car like you stole it (seriously!!).

I've done around 60+ passes and spent about $2k in mods (better tyres, shocks, ex cam gear, exhaust etc) and my very very very first run about 14mths ago (before that $2k was spent) was only like 0.05sec slower than what my PB is after 60+ passes and a much better drag strip.

If you can get your 60ft from 2.3xx to 2.0x sec then you would be saving about 0.5sec in top end.

Last night was quite hot but not hot enuff to make your car a full second slower (than what I think it's very capable of).

* What rpm are you launching at?

* Are you doing a burnout?

* Do you drive the silver gst-t with bodykit and no rear wing?

[siksII]

1. Drop your tyres pressures to ~20psi.

2. Install 'pineapples' (~$110) for better squat.

3. Drive the car like you stole it (seriously!!).

trust me i gave it hard! only in third gear i shifted to fourth early(6600) as the power dies off at about 6500.

ben, do you think dropping the pressures on low profile tyres like mine really helps? i tried dropping them to 23 the night before and launched a few times (on a private road) and there was still similar amounts of wheelspin as usual, i think the sidewalls are too stiff!

* What rpm are you launching at?

i tried between 2500(not quite enough) and 3500 (too much wheelspin)

the best time i did was with about 3 grand

* Are you doing a burnout?

no burnout, only a 2 second one to clean the tyres

* Do you drive the silver gst-t with bodykit and no rear wing?

no i drive a red series 2 stock bodykit, the silver one from last night as far as i know had a 3 litre bottom end and lots of mods.

[Kaido_RR]

that time is pretty slow, i have an r33 gts-t, with exhuast, air filter, bov, r34 gt-t cooler and i ran a 14.3 with shitty 235

[Fly_With_Sky]

well put it this way, it was your first time at the drags so it was all a learning experience for you.

Now your 60ft time isnt the best, so, like benm said if you can launch right and get it around 2sec then you should really be looking at 0.5-0.6sec faster after the qaurter. So that would be 14 flat. Then you really have to concentrate on getting the changes right and needing two grabs at a gear doesnt help.

Ask around here to ppl such as 2rismo and co for tips on tyres, launch rpms etc and then get a few more runs under the belt becuase with your mods you should be in the 13 second bracket. Good luck with it all.

[siksII]

thanks..

the 60' time is a main issue...maybe i could get better times if i put some 16's on and run low pressures...

with that mph i was hoping for a 14.2 with a good 60" but just couldnt get it to grip hard enough.

the shift from 2nd to third could have been faster 1-2 and 3-4 were fast..

still waiting to see what ben has to say about lower pressures on low profile tyres like i had fitted..

[Fly_With_Sky]

ok, well if it helps i was told to put the stock 16s on and drop them to about 20psi

at that pressure and with a smaller rolling diameter it should take off nicely

[riggaP]

The 60' time could be improved but I would be more worried about the low mph. For those mods you should be into the 100s and running sub 13.5.

I have run a 13.8@101 with a full zorst, pineapples, and bleeder @ 10psi. Had stock turbo, stock coola, stock ECU, and stock rims with 205s at the time too. Time to get that PFC retuned me thinks.

[Gizmo73]

:werd: RiggaP..

I was going to post the same thing....your mph is pretty low for someone with those mods..

As an indicator, when i went to WSID my mph was 101mph and i had the below mods..

full 3" exhaust - including cats back, hi-flow cat and dump pipe

FMIC

Boxed Pod Filter

i didnt have a power fc, extra boost (except for what the above gave me - about 8psi) or ex cam gear...

[Abo Bob]

Also I wouldn't call whatever you put on 17" rims low profile. I use 18's on the street but when I went to the drags I used 17's with cheapass tyres. Best times were run at 40psi and I did over 30 runs that day so no other real variables.

[siksII]

The 60' time could be improved but I would be more worried about the low mph. For those mods you should be into the 100s and running sub 13.5.

I have run a 13.8@101 with a full zorst, pineapples, and bleeder @ 10psi. Had stock turbo, stock coola, stock ECU, and stock rims with 205s at the time too. Time to get that PFC retuned me thinks.

hey, the car goes as it should, it feels quick driving around.. my only suspicion about tuning is about the adj cam gear, as i have heard more negative results from them than positive, it may not be set up right.

other than that the car was very hot all night due to the air temps being 29-35 so all the piping etc was boiling hot in the engine bay, my MPH started at 95 and went up to 97.75 as it cooled down a bit. i also need to sort out some sort of cold air induction as the snorkel wont fit on the stock airbox because of th ic piping.

also my MPH would be affected by a slowish shift into third.

[riggaP]

You must be shifting like a granny.

Seriously dude, there is something wrong with your setup. There are others on this forum who are running close to 12s with similar mods to you.

PS I lied when I said I ran a 13.8 with a full zorst coz I still had the complience cat in at the time too.

[siksII]

nah i shift fast from 1-2 and 3-4 only 2-3 was a bit slow, but trust me still pretty fast.. i think the 3rd gear synchro was having a bit of trouble keeping up which is why i couldnt get it in on previous runs..

i wish the runs at wsid were on in the day or on the weekend or something because i work on wednesday nights i had to take a night off to go, so basically i can never go unless i take nights off.... im not sure when i can go back to run a better time...

[benm]

I have stock 16's with 225/50/16's so i'm unsure about the 'low profile 17s'. I've used 12<->38psi and honestly found no difference at all but everyone you talk to says to drop the pressures right down (15-25psi).

You will basically need 100+ mph to break into the 13's.

Last wednesday wasn't the best night for doing fast times but atleast now you know how wsid works just a matter of getting back out there to practice some more.

[siksII]

yeah a friend of mine in a 300zxtt got 100mph and 14.1 otherwise he was running very similar times to me... his car is about the same weight as a gtst.

i tried dropping pressures to 23psi a few days before on the street and had a few goes, it didnt help so i guess maybe if i drop them very low like around 15.

oh well i wont be going back till who knows when anyway...maybe sometime soon there will be an event in the daytime.

[MrBlonde]

The weather conditions wouldn't help trap or ET. Maybe allow 2-3 MPH compared to a cold Winter night.

Regarding your tyres, street radials are shit for drag racing. With 17" or 18" wheels and tyres you've got bugger all sidewall as you said. They are never going to cut it for a good short time.

I would say that a 1.7x 60' time on street radials would put you in the elite racer category. With the power your car has I would say you'd be cheering if you got a 1.9X 60' time.

Best bet is to model the successful racers with similar setups to you. You want to get BF Goodrich Comp TA drag radials with a 50, 60 or 65 profile under your guards. If you want to go all out, then get slicks.

Regarding squat, you don't want it! With IRS rear suspension squat on launch will alter the camber radically and unload around 50% of your rear tyre contact patch. You don't want squat. What you want is zero negative camber on hard launch, keeping all that precious rubber contacting the ground.

I've always mantained that burnouts on street radials are a wank. The best short time I've ever done with street radials came after the ANDRA official at WSID abused me resulting in me getting the shits and doing a huge burnout. So bugger me, maybe I'm wrong! Try it both ways and reccord which one gives you better short times.

With the burnout you only want to turn the rears over until they smoke. No static rim scratchers.

Good luck and remember that every time you race you get better! You've already graduated to the few who actually do it rather than just type about it on the internet.

[MrBlonde]

Regarding tyre pressures I'll post up my experience.

With street radials 285/35 R18 I've tried all pressures 16psi to 40 psi and found that the OEM pressure works best (ie 36 psi for my tyres).

Lowering the tyre pressure in a 30/35/40 profile tyre is a waste of time IME.

Once you've got some drag radials with 50/60/65 profile you can benefit immensely from fidning the right tyre pressure. For my 275/50 R15 drag radials we found between 12-14 psi works best.

Again, try all the combos and record each time, then analyse and find what works best.

With all the above, don't forget that each race night has different weather conditions which means there is no one perfect setup; it changes night to night and even changes on the same night.

[siksII]

hey thanks heaps for your input, at least you agree on the tyre pressure with low profile issue, so now i more or less know it doesnt do anything to lower pressures on my 17s..

with 2-3mph more and say 2.1 60' i would assume a high 13, and that would be good enough for me. i am more inclined to go track racing than drag racing, so i might try on some decent 16' normal tyres but i wouldnt go as far as getting Comp TA radials...

i was more going to have a go, and prove my car is good for at least a 13 rather than try and beat everyone!

regarding squat, i have noticed a huge change in camber when the car squats (ie me pushing the back end down by sitting on the boot sill) so yes that would be bad i guess.

btw. the last time i went to wsid a few months back i saw your car run a 10 that was impressive!

[MrBlonde]

hey thanks heaps for your input,

No problem, drag racing is fun!

..

with 2-3mph more and say 2.1 60'

..

Your 2.3x 60' is shithouse, but you knew that. That's good in that it won't be hard for you to do better. And every 0.1 improvement in your short time is worth 0.15 - 0.25 in your ET.

On that basis if you can nail a 2.0x 60' time (very doable with your car) you could shave up to seven tenths off your ET. That would put your ET at 14.0X.

From there you will crack a 13 second pass with more experience.

btw. the last time i went to wsid a few months back i saw your car run a 10 that was impressive!

Hey thanks for the kind words. We really enjoyed that night, it was the result of 42 passes over 7 weeks to crack a ten. Click on the link in my signature to see a movie of that pass.

We are currently halfway through the next phase of development and should be back out at WSID in the April-May 2005 timeframe. See you there when the air is cold and dry!

[2rismo]

Holy farking christ, Kenny!

Adrian