HELP ****ed Radiator

[MFC05]

yeh.. i was driving alone today.... parked my car and i hear this some dripping under my bonnet, pop the hood to find out wats wrong the plastic radiator tank which is connected to the radiator is fully of brownish boiling water !!

Whats goin on ??

[shif_tea]

Radiator could be blocked and full of rust and crap. Had the same thing happen to my vl, water then boils up from radiator into reservoir. Didn't u notice it overheating or anything though??

Keep an eye on it, could wreck your engine/crack the head. Take it to a radiator place and get them to flush and clean. If its really bad they might need to pull out the radiator and push metal rods through it to clean out sludge. Might be something else possibly but sounds very similar to the problem i had.

[The Dan]

When you stop the car does it sound like it's bubbling. Look in the plastic overflow bottle and see if it is gurgling. If it does it for more than a couple of seconds then chances are you head could be blown. Easiest way to check it is take it to a mechanic and get them to do a pressure and dye test. You could also pull out the plugs and see if any look kinda rusty or really clean. Steam from the blown gasket will clean the end of the offending cylinder's plug.

[shif_tea]

Normally if you blow the head you'll notice oily sludge in the water, or in the oil. Hopefully this ain't the case (although in my vl's case it did happen, but only because it was blocked with the crap and so water wasn't flowing properly through the head, overheated it).

Check under the oil cap after the cars been running a while and see if theres sludge under it. If so your heads stuffed. I'm no mechanic but i ran the vl with a cracked head for about 12 months and the only times it overheated was when i let it drink too much of the water and the waterlevel dropped to low. Normally you would've noticed something before this time though.,

[Cubes]

Check your clutch fan and get the block & heater core powerflushed, meanwhile get the radiator cleaned by removing the end tanks (rodded).

If there is a lot of crap in the block and heater I would highly stress to grab an old stocking and shove it on the top radiator hose so that the crap gets caught there and doesn't block the radiator. (This recently happened to a VL we bought after a power flush)

.....

What I think is more than likely wrong with the car is you have sucked in a bit of air, created a hotspot in the head which has caused the car to run hot, boiled the coolant or in your case Muddy water, the boiling coolant then pushes water out the overflow bottle.

Bleed your heater and plenum. refill with coolant check for leaks and keep an eye on it.

[The Dan]

You wouldn't get sludge if it blew between a water jacket and the cylinder bore. And the bubbling into the overflow would be because the water is boiling over or compression is getting into the cooling system.

I still advise to get a pressure and dye test done, you will know the extent of any damage - if any at all before you go ahead and spend money on power flushes.

Normally if you blow the head you'll notice oily sludge in the water, or in the oil. Hopefully this ain't the case (although in my vl's case it did happen, but only because it was blocked with the crap and so water wasn't flowing properly through the head, overheated it).

Check under the oil cap after the cars been running a while and see if theres sludge under it. If so your heads stuffed. I'm no mechanic but i ran the vl with a cracked head for about 12 months and the only times it overheated was when i let it drink too much of the water and the waterlevel dropped to low. Normally you would've noticed something before this time though.,

[Cubes]

Yep.. Definitely do the second step before the first as in my post above.

Fill it up your self, bleed it and see if it still blows out.

If so then you have a problem.

I have great faith in the rb20det heads. They are tough nuts, as I said. Most probably just getting a little hot and boiling the water.

I had 2 years of problems, finally sorted..

Ended up being a dodgy clutch fan, I then replaced it with thermo's which still caused over heating.

Went back to a new genuine clutch fan and all was good.

Mine would constantly blow water out of the overflow when turning the car off.

Once I had an air lock due to flushing the heater core.

The temp rose so so quickly is wasn't funny, not only did it rise quickly it also had steam coming from the edges of my bonnet.

A airlock overheat in my case was much different to the usual overheat.

My coolant was also stuffed. Previous owner obviously had not changed coolants or they did so but mixed the coolants causing a brown slimy almost oily type muck in my radiator and overflow. It would constantly stick to my damn radiator cap.

[MFC05]

Thank for the help..... yer i this car only just arrived from Japan last week its getting complianced at the moment!!

3LIT3 FORS3 -When you stop the car does it sound like it's bubbling. Look in the plastic overflow bottle and see if it is gurgling. If it does it for more than a couple of seconds then chances are you head could be blown

What 3LIT3 FORS3 quoted above is extaclly wat is happening !!, i hope its not a blown head !!!!

[The Dan]

If there is a lot of crap in the block and heater I would highly stress to grab an old stocking and shove it on the top radiator hose so that the crap gets caught there and doesn't block the radiator.

I would not recommend this at all.

Let me get this straight....you are suggesting that he shoves a stocking into his cooling system. All the crap gets caught in it, assuming that the stocking doesn't get forced into the radiator first, and once it has collected all the crap it will then effectively work as a giant plug stopping all flow and any ability to cool the engine.

Cmon....AREN'T THERE ANY MODERATORS...HOW CAN YOU LET ADVISE LIKE THIS REMAIN HERE.

Constructive criticism.....before giving advice on these forums to potentially ignorant people, make sure you know a lot and think about the consequences. This poor bloke would probably take your advice and end up @#$ing something because of it.

[The Dan]

Most mechanics will do a pressure and dye test for nothing. If they won't then PM me and I will bring the equipment home to do it.....providing you are in Brissy.

If these test come up good THEN you start looking at bleeding the system. There is no point spending 2 hours trying to sort out a problem that can be diagnosed in 5 minutes.

[MFC05]

yeh nah cheers 3LIT3 FORS3 for tht.... im just gather every 1's thought see if eva happened to them..... but i will probably take to a workshop (ADD)

used to be Aspely drift & Drag now i think its Assain drift & Drag

any of u guys used them before ???

[Cubes]

3Lit3,

you are suggesting that he shoves a stocking into his cooling system

You jumped the gun dude.

I'm assuming you have never heard of a radiator sock?!?!

My post was incomplete. You don't simply shove a stocking in the system.

You cut the foot off so the size is so that there is enough to cover your hand.

Place the end in to the top water return of the radiator. Ensure there is plenty left so that you are able to fold it over the back around the snout.

Slide the top hose on carefully, you should be able to see some of the stocking around the edge of the hose.

Tighten up the hose clamp that clamps over the hose which clamps over the stocking which clamps on to the radiators water return snout.

Its hard to explain but hopefully one could understand that you don't simply shove it in to the cooling system.

You can purchase radiator socks or a complate filter that is placed in your radiators water return hose.

There is a lid that you remove and can pull the small mesh filter out to clean/view it.

My old man used to use them on his HQ Monaro and another friend on his 360 Charger.

If there is enough crap in the system to block an old stocking, radiator sock or filter then you have very serious problems which would have already blocked the radiator to the point where there would be no flow anyhow.

Not to mention all the small water galleys in the head and block.

It is unrealistic to suggest the radiator sock could be completely blocked where water would be unable to flow. lol You were not being serious more so just a pain in the arse

The next question will be .... But the stocking is nylon and it will melt..

No it won't and it doesn't.

Its up to the person installing the stocking or radiator sock to make sure it is fitted correctly, isn't ripped and has no way of being blown in to the radiator.

So to clear it up.

No, you don't simply shove a stocking in to the radiator.

[Cubes]

After a powerflush in an older car you generally get bits dislodging and in our case blocking the radiator.

The only way to prevent this is to run with a radiator sock or a filter of some sorts on the water return to the radiator for a few hundred kays.

Obviously checking it often.

A quick search returned..

http://www.users.onaustralia.com.au/DANART...Times%207-b.htm

Used a radiator sock.

http://www.babymall.com.au/tefba/

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories...es/sctefba.html

A filter.. but not see through.

http://www.dogcollarlabor.com/ECONOLINE/cooling.html

A home made filter jobby. Look at the crap found.

Its besides the point anyhow.

I doubt his block and system is full of crap.

It may be an airlock in the old RB20DET due to a possible leak from the heater core, water pump or maybe just lack of maintance.

Once you get a little bit of air in the system you begin to loose your heater (i.e as in the air is not warm lol) and soon find you year a bubbling noise that has the water blowing out of the overflow. It then cools down, sucks dry and sucks more air in.

Its a big vicious circle.

It won't be a cracked head or headgasket.

The RB20's simply don't blow heads and headgaskets.

Its is very very unusual.

A headgasket is possible if it is pinging like all buggery for a long period of time, if it is pinging bad enough to do this you will definitely hear it.

My problem is I assume others know a little about cars and will not attempt anything they don't feel is within their knowledge.

If you don't feel comfortable refilling/bleeding your system & checking for leaks your self then don't touch the car.

EDIT:

3Lit3,

I am a moderator.

If you have a problem with the post click the little report post button.

That is what it is there for.

[The Dan]

It won't be a cracked head or headgasket.

The RB20's simply don't blow heads and headgaskets.

Its is very very unusual.

A headgasket is possible if it is pinging like all buggery for a long period of time, if it is pinging bad enough to do this you will definitely hear it.

Maybe I shouldn't have been so rude. Sorry.

This is still a dodgy idea. You still risk blocking the system and overheating the engine. The fact is that type of engine is very unlikely to have the crap built up in it like you said and why go to all that trouble and risk. This guy has come here with a problem which we are trying to give solutions. In this situation it is better to identify the complaint, provide any testing procedures if possible, and try to diagnose the complaint with the analysis of the results.

The above statement is untrue. RB engines have the same headgasket as most other nissans of the same breed. Not to mention that I know of 4 people who have blown their gaskets. All rb20's and 25's. Also 2 sr20DET's and a ca18DET. To rule out a problem without performing tests is stupidity. You don't just say..."hey, It won't be a headgasket". You have to always keep that possibility in the equation. I never said that he DID have a blown head gasket. I said that there was a good chance and to perform those test procedures. Once those tests are done, which shouldn't take any longer than 5 minutes, you would be able to diagnose the problem.

I apologise once again, maybe the stocking works. I can only see problems as a result and still recommend not using them. If you have a blocked radiator, the chances are you won't stop all flow. With the stocking you can block all flow. Maybe you check it every day, that's fine...a lot of stuffing around when the flush should have gotten all that stuff out anyway. The HQ you are talking about would have had a problem with casting sand from the block and head. Ford Falcons have the same issue but worse. If you went and put a sock in one of those you would block it within one day. You can get handfuls of casting sand outta those.

I think it best to see the results of the tests before you make assumptionsas to what is possible in a world of Murphey's Law.

[Cubes]

I'm of the belief that unless you can get the tests done for nothing then rule out the possibilitys you can your self.

Out of curiosity.

These Rb20's and Rb25's that have done headgaskets.

What was the cause for doing the head gaskets?

Pinging, extreme overheating or bad prep when the head was off last?

I'm sure you know the RB's don't blow a head gasket unless there is a reason for it.

Reason I am skeptical about the head being cracked or a blown head gasket is I've seen a lot of Rb20's do exactly what MFC05 is claiming.

All have been overheating issues caused from either a bad clutch fan or air in the system. Generally which is related as it overheats blows coolant in to the overflow bottle due to the coolant boiling then when the motor cools it sucks the coolant back in to the motor. Eventually the overflow runs dry due to too much coolant blowing out. This is when it sucks air in and the overheating gets really bad and you literally watch the temp guage move towards the H within seconds.

When air is in the system I have found you can get major overheating if there is too much air in the heater, the plenum may be fine but the air in the heater is very very hard to get out without bleeding the actual heater core.

There is a little T piece with a bung up against the firewall on the top hose right behind the inlet cam cover in the R32's.

When air is in the heatercore the heater appears not to really get burning hot.

This usually only occurs when you flush the heater core seperately and pull its hoses off.

I have honestly never seen an RB20 blow a headgasket.

RB25's I have heard of due to pinging with too much boost on a hot day or pinging due to a dud fuel pump, but I have never seen one.

If he can get a pressure test done for nothing (which he can) or cheaply that would definitely be the first step.

If it checks out then bleed the complete system (heater core & plenum).

If it still gets hot check the clutch fan.

There are a few things to check with the clutch fan.

1. When the car is cold ensure it whooshes loudly (engaged) for around 30seconds or so.

2. Once at operating temp which is roughly half on the guage for the R32's, raise the rev's to 2000rpm. Hold it there and ever odd minute you should hear and see it engage and whoosh loudly.

3. Turn the motor off and the clutch fan should stop spinning quite quickly. If it spins freely then it is stuffed.

A lot of aftermarket clutch fans are duds, a little while back there was batches that were duds & didn't last long.

It really is worth the extra $50 or so to get a genuine.

Last but not least check the thermostat and clean the radiator.

While on the topic of thermostats. I don't like the aftermarket RB30/20/25/26 thermostats as they tend to open a little earlier and open much more wider than the genuine items.

The genuines opens only a small amount compared to the aftermarkets.

The problem I have seen occur from this aftermarket thermostat opening too much is temp guage fluctuations between cool and hot weather and major temp fluctuations and some times slight overheating when giving it a real bootfull on a hot day with the a/c on.

The aftermarket thermostat allows too much water to pass too quickly which reduces its time in the radaitor cooling down.

What are your views on this 3LIT3?

Casting sand it was.. EA's (that I know of) also had the problem.

With regards to flushes getting all the crap out I have found that they often do remove 95% of the crap but the last 5% doesn't totally exit the system until a couple hundred kays later.

This is where it unfortunately gets caught in the radaitor and blocks it.

BUT always a but, It really depends how old and neglected the cooling system is.

If its a 17yr old VL that has only had a few cooling system changes in its life and no doubt had mixed coolant then not all of the crap will dislodge from the system with a powerflush. It should.. but I have found it doesn't.

Some times with a cooling system that is obviously very scaly I would rather give it a standard flush.

Not a powerflush that uses high pressure air and water to dislodge the crap.

Mainly due to the crap that has been softened and comes loose during a couple hundred kays. It really depends how much time I have with the car.

Thats my experience with dirty old cooling systems anyhow.

The stocking is a little dodgy back yardish but it does work, if you have a little bit of experience with cars and know what you are doing, it is safe.

It only becomes unsafe when some one throws it in and doesn't check it as you say. But this will also happen with any of the filters you can buy on the market. They too will become blocked.

Leave the stocking with weight in it and I don't doubt it will break at some time, the edges scuffing on the top rad's inlet will wear away.

If it were to let go it would block a few cores but not enough to totally block the system causing a major overheat, UNLESS the crap where to block the radiator enough to cause a major overheat.

Which if is the case then it would have happened anyway.

It can't be sucked in to the motor as it would have to pass the radiators cores first. The stocking is able to flow water through it very very easy so it would make minimal difference if it were to block a few cores.

So just keep an eye on it and it will be fine and don't do anything you don't feel comfortable with.

Some times sending the car to a mechanic really is a useless expensive excercise UNLESS you are friends and know the bloke.

Mechanics have a bad habit of running through all the possibility's mean while charging you for the work even if it hasn't fixed the problem.

You then step on to the next possibility, get charged for that then it continues until the problem is fixed.

Being a mechanic your self you would understand where I am coming from.

It is trouble shooting and shouldn't be done for free but some times I feel they should first try another known working radaitor, thermostat or clutch fan before charging the person to first clean the radaitor & thermostat then find its a clutch fan that is causing the problem.

Damn my posts are too big.

[The Dan]

I would have to agree with everything you have said.

The 20's all blew from corrosion possibly caused by lack of cooling system servicing. At which point the ethylene glycol turns into an acid and eats away at the head (weakest metal). The 25's were a blown heater hose and a stuck thermostat.

I am of a firm belief that basic tests come for free.

Full diagnosis is charged but only with the authority of the owner of the vehicle.

No repairs are done without authority from the owner.

I know that hardly any mechanics are like this anymore but these days I think it is more necessary to help people wherever you can. So many people don't know anything about cars or how they work and many mechanics take advantage of this.

A few minutes here and there for everyone and everyone will give you a few minutes or more in return.

I must explain that I had just read the most rediculous thread before I came to this one and was most pi55ed about people writing dangerous advice. It was regarding the removal of the balancer nut. I'm sure you have probably already read it.

I should maybe not go off next time. Now that I know you are not an imbecile.

:argue:

It has been nice almost arguing.

[The Dan]

Which brings me to my next post in the main thread area.

[Cubes]

Discussions are always good.

[MFC05]

I just got my radioator flushed out and new stuff went in.......still ****ed brown as shit...... temp guague goes up wen i floor it and the water still overflows.. i got it done at Aspely drift & Drag ADD in kendron anyone heard of them before ???

wat u guys reckon ???

[The Dan]

Is it brown in the overflow bottle or in the actual radiator. Most people when they flush the system forget to clean the overflow out.

As for the temp guage rising when you accel. I didn't know this before.

Have you had the pressure and dye tests done yet?