Last Nights Ugly Drags

[igor]

I m planning on signing up to the Daily Telegraph website, getting all the articles that clearly target skylines and sending a printed letter quoting all the articles to the Daily Telegraph editor, Piers Ackerman (as much as a opinionated pain he is, he's got a good BS meter), Sydney Morning Herald editor and my local MP. Hopefully the cc list will get at least one of them off their asses.

Merli, i m with you man. I have grown up in Ukraine (read former USSR) and you are right, you don't want this kind of policing here. The traffic cops are the worst ones, you are guaranteed to get fined if the cop wants it. And there is no corruption watchdog that can help you either.

On the other hand hard line policing is waranted given how bad the crime is over there.

In the end it comes down to you never guess.... insurance. And also how much we don't take responsibilty for our actions. If the insurance wasn't such a big factor then we would see private and public car playgrounds appear. The kind that you can go in and do burnouts, have a drag run, hang out with your mates. Different from track days, which have to be planned weeks in advance and can't really do every day.

But, the public liability just had to be invented. It is such a pain, i really despise it. It is the reason why EVERYTHING is twice as expensive. I say ban public liability and tort litigation.

Ok, im done here.

[nedb]

And what about that 4 yr old in USA driving to the video store and hitting the parked car.

He learned to drive from video games.

4 yrs old and got fined for driving unlicensed.

But back on the topic ... Nothing will be resolved by force and threats. It’s exactly what people rebel from and if anything it can make the problem worse.

Higher fines, confiscation of cars, loss of licenses just won't work. People don’t think about it until it happens. And when it happens they still don’t learn from it as they don’t see themselves to be at fault because they don’t know better. So the grudge against the government and the rebellion kicks in again and when they get the chance they’ll do it again.

The driver training is the clear and the only answer for the new drivers and this should start through school, not just the 50 or so hours of the compulsory training before they get the license. As for the current drivers government has to look at the situation and try to manage it while working with people they are targeting, not working against them.

If government was to cooperate with management at the drag strips I’m sure they could come up with something that would attract racers from the street to the drag strip. This way the situation would be under control and manageable and it would make the streets safer and safe lives. And if saving lives is the goal here then I don’t think government would mind spending some money on this, or would they?

[2BNVS]

to me its just always gonna be a battle that will never end, they'll say this law is being imposed and that law blah blah but most the time nothing happens or like said they are enever enforced properley,

the police will always have an eye out for somethin that looks modified no matter what, pitty if u drive an old shitbox with hektik engine work and u can barely tell its worked,

some1 i know put a 13bt into a suzuki mighty boy, that looks stock as a rock, apart from it shakin a bit whenever that goes into town not 1 cop looks, thats a 13bt in like a 600kg car the thing hammers...

i just dont know where to begin with laws that should be proposed because like mentioned before the ones that will really work just wont happen so theres no point thinkin of them...

lets just hope it somehow gets better for us import drivers, even though its highly doubtful

ben...

[2rismo]

I think 2rismo's sig should be made into an official SAU sticker to show the mainstream attitude of forum members.

I'll call ANDRA and see if they'd mind. If not, I'll get 100 odd made.

Adrian

[two40]

SPHYNX[x']In my opinion, shit ass, and stupid movies like fast and furious and games like nfsu just make people want to street race more and gives them ideas. nfsu not so much though...

that's so wrong it's not funny. street drags have been around for over half a century.

good idea with the stickers mr rismo but i'm sorry to say that i dissagree with the statement. it's because of street drags that you have your 'drag racing'.

[Edge]

Here is my proposal.

Advanced driver training courses with a safety emphasis.

I'm suggesting a 3 month government sponsored course.

Without this nothing changes, when you get your licence you feel you acheived freedom and nobody ever said you need to be responsible to qualify.

What you need to experience is test facilities actually having the authority to fail you in your training course, during a once a week (ie. every Saturday for 3 months) professional driver training course. You are required to bring a friend with you in the back seat. Any slip up in responsible behaviour particularly showing off means you instantly fail and don't get to drive for 2 years. If you pass this course you gain the higher passenger and speed limit class of licence, and this stays with you for life!

(if your friends are good they won't egg you on but if they want you to fail either so they can be the priviledged driving you around or you to be a failure like them they'll egg you on) either way you have to resist the urge to show off, and you'll pick your passengers carefully.

Its needs to be in an atmosphere of responsible driving that you qualify for a licence.

And if you fail you don't get a licence and you have to wait two years till you are 16 before you have to take a 6 month course next time (this one is different and you pay out of your pocket for it as well). The thing is that if you have to take the 6 month course, you can qualify to carry passengers, but you still don't get the higher speed limit! You will have to wait another 5 years before you can take a licence upgrade test (the exact same original 3 months course) and this time along with the kids). A total of 7 years, thats an eternity to 14 year olds.

You'll never forget how responsible you had to be and that you earned your licence along with it the ability and priviledge of carrying your friends when your friends will respect you and beg you to take them with you cause they didn't get theirs. And you'll feel included as a member of society, Recognised for your responsible behaviour.

These drivers (members of society) will realise understand that a licence is only for those who drive responsibly.

The point is if you saw that there were real priviledges for being responsible that apply when you are young, that will be the aspiration of every teenager.

Any child either earns the full priviledges at 14 or at 21 and it is through the same test course.

The urge to show off with reckless driving must be shown to be what it really is. A way that hurts yourself and others.

plate system

L plate for graduates of 14 yo 3 month course - wear for one year

P plate for graduates of the 16yo 6 month course to be worn for the 5 years until they are able to take and pass the 21yo 3 month course over again. each subsequent fail will mean another 2 year wait before they can get higher speed limit.

the points system should still apply,

4 points for graduates of the 14 yo scheme for the year they are on L plate.

then 12 points in second year.

12 points for graduates of the 6 month course.

Loss of licence is the same as it is now, you have to wait before getting your licence back.

certain highways could have the middle lane designated higher speed, and only those who have the high speed limit classification can drive in these lanes.

[2rismo]

good idea with the stickers mr rismo but i'm sorry to say that i dissagree with the statement. it's because of street drags that you have your 'drag racing'.

If you disagree with the statement, you are saying that Street Racing IS Drag Racing. You haven't a clue either way if this is the case.

And Drag Racing has been around nearly 150 years.

Adrian

[Trust33]

Were you there, Lepperfish?

I think 2rismo's sig should be made into an official SAU sticker to show the mainstream attitude of forum members.

Indeedy.

[NXTIME]

No I wasnt there, Why would a SAU member be at some illegal runs?

I dont believe it was a freak accident..  :Bang:  

I mean whats so freakish about a retarded P plater speeding down a dark street  

at midnight colliding with parked cars and hitting innocent by standers?

:ufo:

Fair enough. And I was told by one eye witness tonight that it actually wasn't a freak accident and that the car was travelling at quite a high speed. I won't say anymore than that. Either way, the driver is probably going to have the book thrown at him.

I'll call ANDRA and see if they'd mind.  If not, I'll get 100 odd made.

Adrian

Excellent. It's time we showed the public that most Skyline drivers don't fit the picture that is painted of us by the media. Furthermore, by making the anti-street racing statement via the stickers, we can send out a positive message to the community as a whole and those who street race, that it isn't the right thing to do. Positive action and attitude change.

Another idea would be to have a "Street racing is not drag racing" Skyline cruise to further emphasis this to other drivers and the public. Such a public display (similar to what occurred at teh EVLR34 cruise) would greatly assist in spreading the anti-street racing notion to all and help offset the negative image that recent incidents have given of car enthusiasts as a whole.

[hippy]

this talk is really off topic ... anyways ... i wanna know why those people turned on the ambos and the police?? why??

secondly ... driver training aint going to change shit cause what happened was an act of stupidity and theres alot of stupid people around, there always have been and there always will be.

[2rismo]

Another idea would be to have a "Street racing is not drag racing" Skyline cruise to further emphasis this to other drivers and the public. Such a public display (similar to what occurred at teh EVLR34 cruise) would greatly assist in spreading the anti-street racing notion to all and help offset the negative image that recent incidents have given of car enthusiasts as a whole.

I love this idea.

[Menthu_Rae]

Here is my proposal.

Advanced driver training courses with a safety emphasis.  

I'm suggesting a 3 month government sponsored course.

Without this nothing changes, when you get your licence you feel you acheived freedom and nobody ever said you need to be responsible to qualify.

What you need to experience is test facilities actually having the authority to fail you in your training course, during a once a week (ie. every Saturday for 3 months) professional driver training course. You are required to bring a friend with you in the back seat. Any slip up in responsible behaviour particularly showing off means you instantly fail and don't get to drive for 2 years. If you pass this course you gain the higher passenger and speed limit class of licence, and this stays with you for life!  

(if your friends are good they won't egg you on but if they want you to fail either so they can be the priviledged driving you around or you to be a failure like them they'll egg you on) either way you have to resist the urge to show off, and you'll pick your passengers carefully.

Its needs to be in an atmosphere of responsible driving that you qualify for a licence.  

And if you fail you don't get a licence and you have to wait two years till you are 16 before you have to take a 6 month course next time (this one is different and you pay out of your pocket for it as well). The thing is that if you have to take the 6 month course, you can qualify to carry passengers, but you still don't get the higher speed limit!  You will have to wait another 5 years before you can take a licence upgrade test (the exact same original 3 months course) and this time along with the kids). A total of 7 years, thats an eternity to 14 year olds.  

You'll never forget how responsible you had to be and that you earned your licence along with it the ability and priviledge of carrying your friends when your friends will respect you and beg you to take them with you cause they didn't get theirs.  And you'll feel included as a member of society, Recognised for your responsible behaviour.

These drivers (members of society) will realise understand that a licence is only for those who drive responsibly.

The point is if you saw that there were real priviledges for being responsible that apply when you are young, that will be the aspiration of every teenager.

Any child either earns the full priviledges at 14 or at 21 and it is through the same test course.

The urge to show off with reckless driving must be shown to be what it really is. A way that hurts yourself and others.

plate system

L plate for graduates of 14 yo 3 month course - wear for one year

P plate for graduates of the 16yo 6 month course to be worn for the 5 years until they are able to take and pass the 21yo 3 month course over again. each subsequent fail will mean another 2 year wait before they can get higher speed limit.

the points system should still apply,  

4 points for graduates of the 14 yo scheme for the year they are on L plate.

then 12 points in second year.

12 points for graduates of the 6 month course.

Loss of licence is the same as it is now, you have to wait before getting your licence back.

certain highways could have the middle lane designated higher speed, and only those who have the high speed limit classification can drive in these lanes.

First of all, I'm 18 and on my Green Ps... and I dont drive a high-powered car, but that hasn't stopped me from making some big mistakes.

Edge, whilst your proposal is extremely intricate and well thought-out... I believe there is a huge problem with it.

Yes, P platers and young drivers often lack responsibility and do stupid things (hey, I've been there and I'm paying for it - going to court in April) - but one thing that I know for sure - is that no matter what rules you implement for future generations - there are absolute idiots out there on the road, RIGHT NOW, with *full licences* who have been driving for DECADES... not JUST driving for decades, driving IRRESPONSIBLY!

After my mistake, I now sit on the speed limit, going over by 5-10km/hr if only to get through some traffic, or to overtake someone who I feel is a risk...

The amount of full-licence holders who tail gate me, overtake me and then pull in front of my car giving me only 5m or so from their rear bumper (i try to maintain a 3 second gap ALL the time, even more in the wet)- it's insane.

People are idiots, people, of ALL AGES do *not* realise the dangers of driving, they dont realise that not leaving a proper gap might one day cause them, their passengers, and even other people around them - serious injury or death...

No amount of ad campaigns, no amount of driver training for young people - will change those views of the people who are already out there.

It's taken me a 30km/hr over speeding fine, and an accident in the wet which wrote off my car (NOT speed related, and I wasnt doing anything stupid, it was the circumstances) - to realise how many things are being done incorrectly by the drivers out there on the roads.

I really feel it's just luck, or maybe driver skill on some peoples part - that so many accidents are avoided. Some of the things I see every day, and I'm sure others see too - it just amazes me that there aren't more accidents, that people DON'T realise how stupid the things they're doing truly are...

It's really a lost cause IMO - we're all human - we're all faulty in some respect - so yes, there are those of us out there trying to do the right thing with driving and driving attitutes - but like anything, the small good minority means jack all in the scheme of things.

You can not, and will not stop people from doing stupid things - unless you remove the control completely (cars on rails with computer control maybe?)...

That said though, you can help to reduce the amount - and I do think that there should be MORE driver education (on crashes, how accidents occur, how little speed is needed to injur/kill yourself or others, how road conditions affect car handling, braking, etc etc etc) for people currently obtaining their licences, so that in the future - the roads may be safer with more responsible drivers.

[Binky1970]

I know what you mean about the acco. I wrote of another car when I hit it with my old Hilux, no speed or reckless driving involved. Wrong time, wrong place. But it takes away the "invincibility" factor when you see first had how much damage you are able to cause with a car.

[TokyoTaxi]

I don't know if this would help but I know it did for me !!

When I was in high school in California, they used to have "Driver's Education" and as part of the teaching they would talk about all the normal driving / legal stuff but would also show video's of crash testing different cars at different speeds etc. etc. They also showed video's containing actual California Hyway Patrol footage from the scene of accidents. One of the video's was called "Red Asphalt" and to this day I can vividly remember the damaged and sometimes mangled bodies of people that had accident's at speeds equal to 70 - 110 kph. These had a huge impact on me because it drives home the fact that cars can become coffins real fast and at surprisingly low speeds if you're unlucky.

I can't even begin to remember how many guys and girls bolted out the door and chucked their guts up during these vid's

[Merli]

No amount of ad campaigns, no amount of driver training for young people - will change those views of the people who are already out there.

No, but does that preclude trying to change the attitude of FUTURE drivers before the get on the road? Or should we just give up, throw our hands in the air and admit defeat? Or should we try and change the attitudes of young drivers so they don't develop into the tail-gating menaces you're talking about? No-one in this thread has tried to address changing old, seasoned drivers and trying to break them of their bad habits. The proposal of increased licencing scrutiny and driver education/training is aimed at the next generation of drivers. Not the current.

You can not, and will not stop people from doing stupid things - unless you remove the control completely (cars on rails with computer control maybe?)...

No, you cannot completely stop all stupid behaviour. But you can try and reduce it. You go ahead and continue to sit on your hands and claim that it's too hard, but I feel that by educating kids BEFORE they get their licences, we can make a difference in driver attitude in the future.

[two40]

wow. i think you guys are going to solve all the problems and bring world peace to all.

good luck with it.

[two40]

If you disagree with the statement, you are saying that Street Racing IS Drag Racing.  You haven't a clue either way if this is the case.

And Drag Racing has been around nearly 150 years.

Adrian

even before cars were invented.... i must try that gong water you're drinking.

[Menthu_Rae]

merli, mate, did you even see what i wrote at the very end of my original post?

That said though, you can help to reduce the amount - and I do think that there should be MORE driver education (on crashes, how accidents occur, how little speed is needed to injur/kill yourself or others, how road conditions affect car handling, braking, etc etc etc) for people currently obtaining their licences, so that in the future - the roads may be safer with more responsible drivers.

I was just saying that whilst all of these things/ideas will go on to help in the future - it wont stop the problems now - so maybe in that sense - we need to push that notion to the media/government - that yes, there is a problem - but that by doing something now - it will fix things in the future...

I don't think the media, or perhaps even the government to an extent - realises that bringing in all these ridiculous ideas they have, or even the sane ones - wont stop unnecessary accidents/injury/death immediately.

I guess that's all I was trying to say? :wassup:

[Merli]

merli, mate, did you even see what i wrote at the very end of my original post?

I was just saying that whilst all of these things/ideas will go on to help in the future - it wont stop the problems now - so maybe in that sense - we need to push that notion to the media/government - that yes, there is a problem - but that by doing something now - it will fix things in the future...

I don't think the media, or perhaps even the government to an extent - realises that bringing in all these ridiculous ideas they have, or even the sane ones - wont stop unnecessary accidents/injury/death immediately.

I guess that's all I was trying to say?  :wassup:

Right, okay... That's pretty much exactly what I've been saying as well.

Good-o.

[2rismo]

even before cars were invented.... i must try that gong water you're drinking.

Okay, so since the first historically documented side by side acceleration trials of the first Benz, so lets say, 117 years. Or shall we even just ASSUME that Nicolas Joseph Cugnot of France at some point after building the first car in 1769 built another one and tested them side by side???

Drag Racing has existed since the thirties in Australia and in America since the 50's. I suggest you read Grant Stephens articl in the Drag Section of this forum for the differences.

Either way, you're saying that drag racing and street racing are the same thing. What do they put in the Burek in Sydney?!?!?!?!?

Adrian