Power FC with no tuning

[SAMFISHER]

I have a Power FC on the way for a R3325t with a cat-back exhaust as the only modification.

I was going to plug it in, see how it goes and then spend the money getting a tune when I get a front mount & boost controller later on.

Anyone thinks this is a reasonable idea. I believe that the base tune is actually quite good for the R33 as it is.

Anyone done it this way before?

Thanks

[Guest two.06l]

I have a Power FC on the way for a R3325t with a cat-back exhaust as the only modification.

I was going to plug it in, see how it goes and then spend the money getting a tune when I get a front mount & boost controller later on.

Anyone thinks this is a reasonable idea. I believe that the base tune is actually quite good for the R33 as it is.

Anyone done it this way before?

Thanks

Great idea, we made 284rwkw out of a GTR with a base map and some injector correction values reduced to lean it out a bit.

[Guest two.06l]

Great idea, we made 284rwkw out of a GTR with a base map and some injector correction values reduced to lean it out a bit.

[Robo's]

Im using a modified base map and constantly watch the knock reading. The max im getting is in the mid 30's so im happy with that, once ive seen 40. Im very happy with the extra performance and particularly no flat spots. If you monitor knock you should be right. If your getting knock, try reducing the timing down 1 degree. Bit of trial and error at the moment so keep your eye on the knock readings.

[Memph]

what are acceptable knock readings?

I have a R32 GTSt, and i also have a power FC with commander but its not in the car yet as i was waiting till i get something in the car where i actually need to get it tuned. as i didnt want to tune it now then tune it again later when i mod the car. as i cant really afford it.

I put it in just for a squiz once and it was reading things up on the knock sensor. but i didnt know what the knock sensor should read and whats bad etc, so i took it back out

Anyone?

[Robo's]

Apparently the light on the dash comes on when knock reaches 60, so im presuming that is bad, i wouldnt go above that.

[R31Nismoid]

dont play with fire.

why cant you wait and plug the PFC in when you get a cooler and get it all done properly?

[Memph]

Is having any knock bad?

or is having a slight amount of knock normal?

About how much knock do you get on the stock ECU?

Sorry if they are "newbie" questions. but i honestly dont know

Thanks for the help

[Robo's]

The stock ECU doesnt show you any signal of knock. You may hear it under load and the standard ECU should retard timing when it sensors it.

[SAMFISHER]

Thanks for the input

dont play with fire.

why cant you wait and plug the PFC in when you get a cooler and get it all done properly?

Thats the thing, I could wait but if I can get the benefit of the Power FC without tuning it yet then why not.

PFC base maps are set up to run on stock engines so thats why I'm thinking about doing it that way.

Thanks two.06l & Robo's sounds like it worked well for you guy's.

Anyone used it on a stock 33 25T though?

[USRB25S13]

Keep in mind the PFC doesn't retard timing if knock is detected.

That said, My setup has not seen any dyno time yet but I have it setup to run 11:1-10.5:1 a/f under boost and my knock usally stays under 25. Last week it some how shot to 70. I never saw the check engine light but I wasn't looking either.

[Guest two.06l]

11:1-10.5:1 a/f

mega rich mixtures bud

[Robo's]

Keep in mind the PFC doesn't retard timing if knock is detected.

That said, My setup has not seen any dyno time yet but I have it setup to run 11:1-10.5:1 a/f under boost and my knock usally stays under 25. Last week it some how shot to 70. I never saw the check engine light but I wasn't looking either.

How you measuring A/F ratios without a dyno?

[R31Nismoid]

Thats the thing, I could wait but if I can get the benefit of the Power FC without tuning it yet then why not.  

PFC base maps are set up to run on stock engines so thats why I'm thinking about doing it that way.

i can see what you mean. But if something does go wrong then your up for a motor rebuild quite quickly... when it was very avoidable to begin with

guess i like to do things as safe as possible

[Sydneykid]

My 20 cents worth;

Plenty of cars are tuned without dynos

Ignition timing is easy, advance it till it pings, then knock it back 2 degrees

If you have a PFC you can read knock off the Commander, keep it below 40.

(the dash warning is adjustable via the Commander)

Fuel mixtures are pretty easy to read off the spark plugs, it's been done that way for many decades

If you want to be more precise, you can buy a pretty good A/F meter with a fast and wide lambda sensor for under $500. Spread that amongst 3 or 4 guys and you have cheap tuning for ever.

Most tuning time is used up setting the base parameters (though not much of that with a PFC). When you make further upgrades the required tuning changes are not very dramatic. This is the big advantage of the Power FC, it uses the AFM sensor as its main input. Most upgrades that you do result in changes (hopefully increases) in airflow, that the AFM sees. An example, I have changed intercoolers 3 times and the tune barely changed at all. Maybe 15 minutes of fine tuning on the dyno.

It is always better to develope a rapour with your tuner, so frequent small visits will get you a faster, nicer running, better tuned car than one only visit.

Everyday you drive around with a rich running Skyline costs you $'s in fuel. Not to mention less lambda sensor wear and freer flowing cat.

Bottom line, get it tuned now:cheers:

[Robo's]

SK,

Do you play with the timing curve in the low to mid range?

How do you know where it pings there with minimum load?

I have quite free access to dynos so i can play with the mixtures at different load points. Its the timing im a little new at. I know more means better until a point. (We once turned the dissy on a holden v8 from 10-14 degrees and gained 13rwkw) . Generally if you hear ping, retard it.

[USRB25S13]

mega rich mixtures bud

Just keeping it safe. I have a wideband O2 sensor in my car.

[BlueRB240]

My PFC is untuned and right out of the box. My A/F gets really rich on the topend. 9.8 was peak hold on my wideband display. running really rich but it runs smoother than the stock ecu.

Before it warms up the sensor

Still warming up but it displays everything you see. I haven't hooked up the EGT gauge or the mapsensor yet. You need a laptop to datalog the values you see + TPS and RPM.

[Sydneykid]

SK,

Do you play with the timing curve in the low to mid range?

Hell yes, that's where you feel the biggest improvement in response, not so much power. You can get quite a bit of earlier boost build by advancing the timing.

How do you know where it pings there with minimum load?

With the above in mind, I keep advancing till it pings or the boost starts to drop off. Whichever comes first. On the dyno, you simply watch for power drop off, but that usually corresponds with a boost drop or some pre-ignition anyway.

You can also see it on the AFM voltage, if you go too far (advanced) the airflow drops off.

Generally if you hear ping, retard it

You got it.

[SAMFISHER]

Thanks for the help everyone SK, BlueRB240

At this stage I will hook it up and see how it goes.

If knock rating getting over 40 then I'll get a tune for sure.

They are such a reasonable price these days it looks like it will become more common to get one early on in the modification process.