Double Clutching

[Sheriff Wan]

But in fast and the furious Vin Diesel says he shoulda been double clutching...during a drag race...in a 10 second car...but the drag takes a minute or more...

How could hollywood be wrong?

LOL Fast anf th Furious what do they know about driving!!! Does anyone else ever notice how thier foot is never ALL the way down. They always seem to find that extra 1nch or 2.

;0)

[eXc]

If you do not rev it while the the car is in neutral with the clutch out (NOT PUSHED IN) then there is no point the two things above go hand in hand, there is no point of one without the other. "

The point of heel-toe as far as i know is so you can get your car into a lower gear without a compression lock. That's why I do it. You certainly do not have to double clutch to do it.

On the other hand, in my dad's moris minor and dodgy subaru, i double clutch plus heel toe to get them into gear. So it depends on how you meant your statment to be taken...

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

If you do not rev it while the the car is in neutral with the clutch out (NOT PUSHED IN) then there is no point the two things above go hand in hand, there is no point of one without the other.  

wrong,

the point, is to match the engine revs with the gearbox revs - (double-clutch is to match gearbox input & output shaft speeds also within gearbox)

try driving at 4000rpm in 4th, then change to 3rd without heeltoe / doubledeclutching. Most likely your wheels will lock up - compression lock

if you go : clutch-in, shift to 3rd, rev to 6500rpm (or whatever) then release clutch - when gearbox & flywheel will be travelling at roughly the same speed, so you don't get comp lock.

If you do it without heel toe, the engine speed will have dropped to like 3000rpm or so, but when you put it in second, gearbox input shaft will speed up to 6,500rpm coz of 3rd gear (syncros make it do this without any major probs), so when you release clutch, the gearbox will slow down, and engine speeds up - causing comp lock.

You don't have to double-de-clutch to make it do the above.

[pnblight]

If you do not rev it while the the car is in neutral with the clutch out (NOT PUSHED IN) then there is no point the two things above go hand in hand, there is no point of one without the other.  

its plain and simple, just rev the car in neutral on downshifts to more rpm than the lower gear would need. its not rocket science

oh and exactly what is this funky  "normal" heel and toe you are doing at high speeds, how does that go? are u changing up or down, hehe..... this is gonna be good for a laugh.  please describe "normal heel-toe"

Heel toe has been around for ever

basically its only for down shifting and it just to aline the engine rpms to the new selected gear ie to stop engine braking or compression lockup(you do not need to double clutch )as it only alines engine to gearbox (just let the box do its thing )

for eg cruise along in 4 th and if you down shift to 3rd with no rpm change during the shift ,on releasing the clutch the car will engine brake due to the gearbox trying to speed up engine rpms to suit ground speed . this is wot heel toe stops and lets the brakes do the braking (not the engine)

[eXc]

LOL Fast anf th Furious what do they know about driving!!! Does anyone else ever notice how thier foot is never ALL the way down. They always seem to find that extra 1nch or 2.

;0)

Yeah man, that's how it works. Everyone knows to get good times, you leave just a bit of throttle for at the end

Fast And The Furious is like the drift bible of drags man, they know EVERYTHING

[(B1) MR_fanny]

this is gonna be good for a laugh.  please describe "normal heel-toe"

exactly what merlin and pblight said. i dont see anything there to laugh about though.

[Gts-t]

hahah by the time you double clutch your car around corners and on the staright, i would have left you by miles. what a waste

Keep dreaming mate, the process is barely slower once practiced and if u werent such a novice you would understand that it alows you to get a lower gear at a much greater speed without the compression bullshit, but hey what would i know about that shit

in my opinion u cant properly drive unless you can do it. But that said it is really neccesary for racing use only. its not REALLY needed to drive as slow as wrecked head must.

to think you would be gone is a joke, you wouldnt even be in the lower gear yet. And if you did decide to release that clutch (not doubling it that is) at the rpm im changing into the lower gear at then that would really be something to watch.

[Roy]

lol...this is funny.... you are all a bunch of light weights, I TRIPLE CLUTCH:thumbsup:

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

lol

u use the clutch? flat-shifting all the way! :headspin:

[Gts-t]

wrong,

the point, is to match the engine revs with the gearbox revs - (double-clutch is to match gearbox input & output shaft speeds also within gearbox)

try driving at 4000rpm in 4th, then change to 3rd without heeltoe / doubledeclutching.    Most likely your wheels will lock up - compression lock

if you go :  clutch-in, shift to 3rd, rev to 6500rpm (or whatever) then release clutch - when gearbox & flywheel will be travelling at roughly the same speed, so you don't get comp lock.

If you do it without heel toe, the engine speed will have dropped to like 3000rpm or so, but when you put it in second, gearbox input shaft will speed up to 6,500rpm coz of 3rd gear (syncros make it do this without any major probs), so when you release clutch, the gearbox will slow down, and engine speeds up - causing comp lock.

You don't have to double-de-clutch to make it do the above.

I wouldnt say wrong to me i have no problem with this process, what i do have is a problem explaing things to people who dont even seem to speak the same language. I dont need to try downshifitng without a double, ive been there done that mate. got over it when i was 18, had to slow down to much to get into the lower gear.... so unlike some straight want to be's i was shown the practice and never looked back. i did not read about it on a forum, or talk to some wanker that thought he could do it, or watch KT videos but was shown from a young age.

To think for one second i need any of you tips would be funnier than you lot calling your ablity to put a foot on two pedals something great.

Like i said all you have to do is rev it in netral with the clutch out (that is NOT pushed in) on downshifts. If the clutch is in then the gearbox and engine are not joined. you cannot raise gearbox speed if the motor is not physically connected to it. When the gearbox is in nuetral with the clutch out, all that shit inside is goings to go round and round with engine rpm if it is not in netral with the clutch out then the only thing that is gonne rev is the motor, not the gearbox. hence no matching and no benifit. something you wouldnt notice if your driving around the way i suspect.....

Last note, double cluctch/heel toe revving is done so people can change gears earlier and still be smooth and not tax/unbalance the car/box/clutch/tyres/diff etc. The whole part of having the foot on two pedals is just so braking can be done at the same time as revving in nuetral.

Doing something entirely embrassing like revving it with the clutch in (that is pushed in) on down shifts is very very typical of amatures/ricers/wanna be's and does nothing at all except waste your time.

Last fact, i can change down a gear at whatever rpm i like with nothing but total smoothness , can you? :Bang:

[wreckedhead]

Keep dreaming mate, the process is barely slower once practiced and if u werent such a novice you would understand that it alows you to get a lower gear at a much greater speed without the compression bullshit, but hey what would i know about that shit

in my opinion u cant properly drive unless you can do it. But that said it is really neccesary for racing use only. its not REALLY needed to drive as slow as wrecked head must.  

to think you would be gone is a joke, you wouldnt even be in the lower gear yet. And if you did decide to release that clutch (not doubling it that is) at the rpm im changing into the lower gear at then that would really be something to watch.

hey dude, no offence man, but seriously dont comment on peoples driving unless youve driven with them, so what you wrote above is a load of crock. some people might think double clutching is effective to get the revs up while hanging gears, some people dont think its effective at all, each to his own, i belive the more power you have the less need for double clutching, when i change gears i still keep my revs up anyways. but good luck ,and if your ever in sydney wit you car dont hesitate to send me a pm so we can see these driving skills of yours

[Gts-t]

Heel toe has been around for ever

basically its only for down shifting and it just to aline the engine rpms to the new selected gear ie to stop engine braking or compression lockup(you do not need to double clutch )as it only alines engine to gearbox (just let the box do its thing )

for eg cruise along in 4 th and if you down shift to 3rd with no rpm change during the shift ,on releasing the clutch the car will engine brake due to the gearbox trying to speed up engine rpms to suit ground speed . this is wot heel toe stops and lets the brakes do the braking (not the engine)

Peter isnt it, your a good bloke, but you have simply repeated a process i am very pracitced at and have descibed in my above posts.

What i wanted to hear about was the "normal" heel toe decibed in this post above by someone...

i don't see the point of double-de-clutching instead of just -->normal:cheers:

[Gts-t]

hey dude, no offence man, but seriously dont comment on peoples driving unless youve driven with them, so what you wrote above is a load of crock.  some people might think double clutching is effective to get the revs up while hanging gears, some people dont think its effective at all, each to his own, i belive the more power you have the less need for double clutching, when i change gears i still keep my revs up anyways. but good luck ,and if your ever in sydney wit you car dont hesitate to send me a pm so we can see these driving skills of yours

For sure man, i would love to show you, im not looking for a medal i dont think im the next KT or anything i just enjoy being able to change down at higher speeds and put my car through less pain. Something i thought all of you could enjoy too.

one last point i know this has been covered but theres no point for it on upshifts, and that fast and furios is a joke, i have the pic because it makes me laugh so hard. my statement, you never had you car refers to people not being able to change down properly ie double clutch.

im sorry it is something i have taken for granted you said what you needed to well, i should comment on others driving but to get the benifits or even notice them you must be going quite fast. AND braking and revving at the same time is a whole lot of fun.... :wassup:

[HKS-R33]

what is used in racing cars such as a v8 supercar or some sort of a touring car...

im seriously doubting they double clutch

if u select ur gears with the right timing there would be no compression lock

[Roy]

Double clutching is a risky practice. After the first slap for clutching at her jewelies im usually too shy to go for the double:(

Seriously, you have a seat, a steering wheel and 3 pedals, it aint rocket science:(

[SiVaK]

I would have thought that what 26gts is saying made the most sense to me...grrr this is annoying,can anyone like SK, Duncan or such that actually races skylines alot shed some light here please,like with what techniques they use etc.(not that i dont appreciate what others have posted cheers)

[(B1) MR_fanny]

no one was saying double de clutchin was wrong 26gts. you asked a question about heel toe and others explained but ur still riding it...no offence. thumbs up to you that you can do it properly but others heel toe just as well. as wrecked head said each to their own. that being said i think ill start practicing double de clutchin again to see what im missing, who knows i might actually be good at it:D:D

[eXc]

what is used in racing cars such as a v8 supercar or some sort of a touring car...

I think they use dog boxes or whatever they are called dont they? hence them not worrying too much about the clutch...like dirt bikes... ( i THINK)

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

i think you're missing my point.

Revving with clutch in, doesn't do anything to gearbox speed, this is obvious, as it's not conencted to engine with clutch in - that's not the point of heel-toe.

It changes the ENGINE speed - the point of heel-toe is to change the match the ENGINE with the GEARBOX input shaft, and let the syncros in the gearbox do the rest.

the point of double-clutching is to match the GEARBOX output shaft with the GEARBOX input shaft (which at the same time matches the gearbox & engine speeds)

You are saying, that heel-toe without double clutching does nothing. I am saying you're wrong.

As far as motorsport goes, in V8 supercars, they usually flat shift

In drift, you heel-toe, *without* double clutching (ie as i explained above) when decelerating.

Im not trying to start an argument, but explain *why* the heel-toe technique "has no benifit and is a waste of time"?

Looking at Drift Bible for example, Keiichi Tsuchiya always heel-toe's on down shifts, and doesn't double-de-clutch. I figuire, if that's how the experts drive, then that's how im gonna drive.

[CEF11E]

I used to have a cosworth with straight cut gears and single syncros not double like the rb20 boxes and i can confidently say that it was faster through the corner just heel toe.

only time i ever double clutched it was in the wet as it wouldnt lock up as easy.

there is no need to double clutch.

not in our cars.