Jim Lloyd - Possibly Bribed over 15 year rule?

[danozgriff]

Just saw this on the news.com.au website about Jim Lloyd (The minister responsible for axing the old 15 year rule arrangements)

LOCAL Government Minister Jim Lloyd will use a media blitz this morning to defend his reputation, denying any claims of wrongdoing over a federal grant.

Labor launched an attack on Mr Lloyd yesterday, accusing him in parliament of trying to defraud the Commonwealth.

The fraud allegation relates to advice from his office to a NSW Central Coast council to keep quiet about no longer needing all of a $1.5 million federal grant to dredge a silted-up creek after heavy rains flushed the creek open naturally.

The local Liberal MP and some Wyong Shire councillors had asked if they could use the money for other projects.

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"Any changes means less federal money, so the Wyong officials should keep their counsel on this if we want the total allocated by the PM for Tumbi Creek," Mr Lloyd's special adviser Graeme Hallett wrote them.

In an explanation to parliament last night, Mr Lloyd denied any wrongdoing.

"To date, no money has been paid. Funds cannot be used for purposes other than those approved and any funds that are not required will be retained by the Commonwealth," he said.

"I'm advised that contracts are yet to be signed and can assure the House that funds will only be provided for a proper purpose.

"The claim that there has been a conspiracy to defraud the Commonwealth of funds is ridiculous."

Sounds very shady. If this is true, it could be quite possible he could have been influenced ($$$) by some of the major car dealers (toyota?) into pushing for the termination of the current 15 year rule arrangements.

Well, either way, what goes around comes around - so I hope he gets his.

[slow13dude]

Of course he was bribed or coerced. The whole ending the 15 year rule thing is blatantly in favour of new car dealers in Australia.

If they really wanted to be *fair* and limit imports, they would set up the laws like this:

1. 15 year Import Approval per person (driver's licence/Tax file no.) per 10 years.

2. Unlimited IAs for SEVS imports.

[homer2288]

Oz is a fair country but not the system that is in place...ending the 15 yr rule is no difference to big corporate buying out the small companies. I thought the system supports small businesses but maybe not in this case, some incentives are far more lucrative. my 2c.

[ian]

yes it is different - if you don't like the service/product that you get from the small company after it has been merged with the large one, you can go and use another one instead! Here they are screwing us and we have no alternative!

[funkymonkey]

yes you do... SEVS... jeez you guys seem to think its the end of the world. What some people fail to understand is if the car you want to imports is a SEVS eligible car (ie the turbo skylines, s13s etc) then you can import it thru a RAWS.

It weeds out the rust heaps and the cars that aren't exactly performance or special in any way (like all the N/A silvias and MX5's that were comin thru). It'll cost more, but keep in mind that we are allowed to import cars for specialist use or collecting or restoring... NOT as an alternative to cars currently available in the australian market.

Attacking the minister is not gonna get you far, and yes big businesses can lobby the minister to pass an amendment, but the whole office of the minister is responsible for it. Which means there's not much that can be done, except voicing your concern thru the right channels (like your local govt. rep).

If you want to keep importing cars cheaply once the laws have been amended, then maybe you should get behind the work some of the RAWS put in to get compliance for newer, better cars.

[ian]

yes you do... SEVS... jeez you guys seem to think its the end of the world. What some people fail to understand is if the car you want to imports is a SEVS eligible car (ie the turbo skylines, s13s etc) then you can import it thru a RAWS.

Wrong - that just shows you don't understand the SEVS process (or lack of process)

It weeds out the rust heaps and the cars that aren't exactly performance or special in any way (like all the N/A silvias and MX5's that were comin thru). It'll cost more, but keep in mind that we are allowed to import cars for specialist use or collecting or restoring... NOT as an alternative to cars currently available in the australian market.

Wrong again. For example, a modified r32 GTR will not be allowed through. Nothing that a RAW can't charge enough to make the overheads worth while will come through. There will be quotas on every model. etc etc. And you just can't go out and start a RAW either, so don't think there will be competition from them!

Attacking the minister is not gonna get you far, and yes big businesses can lobby the minister to pass an amendment, but the whole office of the minister is responsible for it. Which means there's not much that can be done, except voicing your concern thru the right channels (like your local govt. rep).

Wrong again. The whole office isn't responsible for it, the Minister is. The right channels is the Minister! And 'not much can be done' is wrong and a cop out.

If you want to keep importing cars cheaply once the laws have been amended, then maybe you should get behind the work some of the RAWS put in to get compliance for newer, better cars.

Wrong yet again. You'd be much better 1) stopping the rules being changed and 2) getting the RAWS/SEVS process changed to something sensible!

[Guest]

Re: Jim Lloyd - Possibly Bribed over 15 year rule?

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkymonkey

yes you do... SEVS... jeez you guys seem to think its the end of the world. What some people fail to understand is if the car you want to imports is a SEVS eligible car (ie the turbo skylines, s13s etc) then you can import it thru a RAWS.

Wrong - that just shows you don't understand the SEVS process (or lack of process)

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkymonkey

It weeds out the rust heaps and the cars that aren't exactly performance or special in any way (like all the N/A silvias and MX5's that were comin thru). It'll cost more, but keep in mind that we are allowed to import cars for specialist use or collecting or restoring... NOT as an alternative to cars currently available in the australian market.

Wrong again. For example, a modified r32 GTR will not be allowed through. Nothing that a RAW can't charge enough to make the overheads worth while will come through. There will be quotas on every model. etc etc. And you just can't go out and start a RAW either, so don't think there will be competition from them!

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkymonkey

Attacking the minister is not gonna get you far, and yes big businesses can lobby the minister to pass an amendment, but the whole office of the minister is responsible for it. Which means there's not much that can be done, except voicing your concern thru the right channels (like your local govt. rep).

Wrong again. The whole office isn't responsible for it, the Minister is. The right channels is the Minister! And 'not much can be done' is wrong and a cop out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkymonkey

If you want to keep importing cars cheaply once the laws have been amended, then maybe you should get behind the work some of the RAWS put in to get compliance for newer, better cars.

Wrong yet again. You'd be much better 1) stopping the rules being changed and 2) getting the RAWS/SEVS process changed to something sensible!

__________________

www.r34skyline.com

You just dont get it do you, it has happened and we work with it, a daily driver isnt a car for Restoration or Club use, the odd one might be used once a month but the line has to been drawn some were and this is the line.

Why dont you set up a RAWS since you feel so strong, import damaged and thrashed cars, comply them for $2,000 and sell them for less than what they cost you.

How long have you been involved in the industry, how many 15 year old cars that are of a high standard have you brought in and if you had a 17 year old son would you want him driving one of these cars that are Spammed out and un safe.

Comply some of the 15 year old cars that have been sold then say their is nothing wrong with them, a mechanical sound car dosent have a hole the size of the battery in the battery box.

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

Wrong - that just shows you don't understand the SEVS process (or lack of process)  

Wrong again. For example, a modified r32 GTR will not be allowed through. Nothing that a RAW can't charge enough to make the overheads worth while will come through. There will be quotas on every model. etc etc. And you just can't go out and start a RAW either, so don't think there will be competition from them!

Wrong again. The whole office isn't responsible for it, the Minister is. The right channels is the Minister! And 'not much can be done' is wrong and a cop out.

Wrong yet again. You'd be much better 1) stopping the rules being changed and 2) getting the RAWS/SEVS process changed to something sensible!

Caution.

[ian]

You just dont get it do you, it has happened and we work with it

You're right - I don't get it. If I'm being screwed I want to do something about it, not lie back and take it. I just don't get people who do!

, a daily driver isnt a car for Restoration or Club use, the odd one might be used once a month but the line has to been drawn some were and this is the line.

Nope, this isn't where the line should be. It's not a force of nature or an act of God where you can say 'this is it'!

Why dont you set up a RAWS since you feel so strong, import damaged and thrashed cars, comply them for $2,000 and sell them for less than what they cost you.

I don't get the logic of that.. And you obviously don't understand the RAWS process if you think you can just go and set one up! Talk to someone who has done it..

How long have you been involved in the industry, how many 15 year old cars that are of a high standard have you brought in and if you had a 17 year old son would you want him driving one of these cars that are Spammed out and un safe.

I'm not in the industry, have driven many cars over 15 years old, have seen many high standard imports, have driven many skylines in Japan, and have already told my son that I'd much prefer him in a R32 skyline than many other cars with crap brakes and steering! You don't seem to understand that many 15 year old japanese cars are safer than many brand new cars in Aus!

Comply some of the 15 year old cars that have been sold then say their is nothing wrong with them, a mechanical sound car dosent have a hole the size of the battery in the battery box.

You're missing the point - if it passes the states roadworthy - it shouldn't matter if it is an import, or a locally sold car!

[Guest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRIFTT

Why dont you set up a RAWS since you feel so strong, import damaged and thrashed cars, comply them for $2,000 and sell them for less than what they cost you.

I don't get the logic of that.. And you obviously don't understand the RAWS process if you think you can just go and set one up!

I do on both and if you know imports, have an understanding of the rules, have trade knowledge, not a criminal or a shady car sales man, have financial backing so you are their if something goes wrong and a hard worker it is possible.

Sitting back saying it is hard and not personally involved is a bit of a soap box idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRIFTT

Comply some of the 15 year old cars that have been sold then say their is nothing wrong with them, a mechanical sound car doesn't have a hole the size of the battery in the battery box.

You're missing the point - if it passes the states roadworthy - it shouldn't matter if it is an import, or a locally sold car!

But they dont now that is the problem, how many company's have liability insurance for those side intrusion bars they fit according to ADR 29.

How many pass ADR 37 on emissions and other ADR's.

Their are bigger issues that the politicians care about and get worked up on as it affects a lot more people, like the amount of Homeless living on the streets and the funding to Public Education.

You see on the news all the time about people killing them self on the roads do you think they will pass a law letting more of the cars on the streets they dont like even if they are safer, it is a fact of life and if it was that imortant why was only so few submissions received.

[SteveL]

ian - perhaps you don't realise it but your arguing with people that are 'in the business' (certainly DRIFTT and I believe RBNT). It could be suggested by some that they have a vested interest in seeing the demise of the 15yo rule.....

Anyway, knock yourself out bombarding DOTARS/the minister in any way you can....I wish you luck (truly). That said, I'd have to say your chances are next to zero of getting the changes reversed/modified. No politician - let alone a Minister - is going to, in effect, admit he/she was wrong by retracting an announcement like that unless there's huge political capital (ie votes) in it. Since we've just had an election i think the chance of that are negligible.

[i'd have to say that the title of this thread and some of the posts are sailing pretty close to the wind in terms of libel...suggesting that a Minister has been bribed is a pretty serious accusation]

[ian]

ian - perhaps you don't realise it but your arguing with people that are 'in the business' (certainly DRIFTT and I believe RBNT).   It could be suggested by some that they have a vested interest in seeing the demise of the 15yo rule.....

Thanks, I'd sort of got that idea. And I've spoken to plenty of business in the last few days who are extremely happy that someone is giving it a bit of a go..

Anyway, knock yourself out bombarding DOTARS/the minister in any way you can....I wish you luck (truly).    That said, I'd have to say your chances are next to zero of getting the changes reversed/modified.   No politician - let alone a Minister - is going to, in effect, admit he/she was wrong by retracting an announcement like that unless there's huge political capital (ie votes) in it.  Since we've just had an election i think the chance of that are negligible.

Thanks again - and I almost 100% agree with you. The 'almost' is that there is a slight difference between 'negligible' and ''impossible''... :-) And not trying something is worse than trying and failing! :-)

[i'd have to say that the title of this thread and some of the posts are sailing pretty close to the wind in terms of libel...suggesting that a Minister has been bribed is a pretty serious accusation]

You'll note I did not start this thread and have made no such comment.

[BoyWhoCriedWolf]

A lot of people will like the new rules, a lot of other wont. It will limit some importers, and will open up business for others. I dont have an issue either way. My main objective is to supply quality product to the end user at a market competitive rate. The government is making life harder by the year by direct influence of the major local (and local jap) manufacturers. There are some fantastic 88 model vehicles out there, the R31 for example. You can still find good vehicles, please sorrect me if I am wrong. R32 comp will be ready soon (if not already?), so the ppl crying about "missing out" on their 32 GTR - dont. Ian you would have to agree that the quality of vehicles coming in will improve as they need to go through the RAWS system. If you dont like the way it is going, bad luck mate - its happened. You cant change it so the only option is the one we have taken - work with it.

I appreciate you are upset, its great that you have shared it with us, please take some care with your comments in the future. Oh by the way, the workers in the minister department have a great deal of influence on descision making. My father answers parlimentary questions for the minister in his department, without the input of ministers staff, most of them would be screwed.

Kind regards,

Ken

Nigel - S comp ready yet?? Need tt auto for stock, out at the moment. Container on way.

[Guest]

With the rule change we lost a lot of work, last bill for one dealer alone was $32,000 worth of 15 year compliance on 12 cars as they were not up to scratch for them to sell, so yes we lost a lot of money but it happens and you move on.

Nigel - S comp ready yet?? Need tt auto for stock, out at the moment. Container on way.

Soarer fine done all so far except 3 litre, Supra and Delica coming soon along with the JZX90 I just bought as a driver.

[danozgriff]

[i'd have to say that the title of this thread and some of the posts are sailing pretty close to the wind in terms of libel...suggesting that a Minister has been bribed is a pretty serious accusation]

Yer I started the thread. Politicians have to put up with opinions and accusations that can often wouldn't be considered fair and reasonable.

In any case, considering his current issues and the nature of the 15 year rule changes, IMO it is very reasonable make such accusations, of the possibility that he could have been swayed into making certain decisions over the 15 year rule.

I stand by my first post.

But just so you can get some sleep at night I will change the wording to make it more palatable for you. And remember everyone, we must never publically express our opinions and scrutinise those in charge.. we don't want to end up living in a democracy now do we..

[slow13dude]

Yer I started the thread. Politicians have to put up with opinions and accusations that can often wouldn't be considered fair and reasonable.

In any case, considering his current issues and the nature of the 15 year rule changes, IMO it is very reasonable make such accusations, of the possibility that he could have been swayed into making certain decisions over the 15 year rule.

I stand by my first post.

But just so you can get some sleep at night I will change the wording to make it more palatable for you. And remember everyone, we must never publically express our opinions and scrutinise those in charge.. we don't want to end up living in a democracy now do we..

Yeah it's not Nazi Germany. People can pretty much say what they want unless it's through the media.

[craz0]

yes you do... SEVS... jeez you guys seem to think its the end of the world. What some people fail to understand is if the car you want to imports is a SEVS eligible car (ie the turbo skylines, s13s etc) then you can import it thru a RAWS.

It weeds out the rust heaps and the cars that aren't exactly performance or special in any way (like all the N/A silvias and MX5's that were comin thru). It'll cost more, but keep in mind that we are allowed to import cars for specialist use or collecting or restoring... NOT as an alternative to cars currently available in the australian market.

Attacking the minister is not gonna get you far, and yes big businesses can lobby the minister to pass an amendment, but the whole office of the minister is responsible for it. Which means there's not much that can be done, except voicing your concern thru the right channels (like your local govt. rep).

If you want to keep importing cars cheaply once the laws have been amended, then maybe you should get behind the work some of the RAWS put in to get compliance for newer, better cars.

funkymonkey does that mean it's still posiable for me to import a JC Cosmo?

[SteveL]

Yer I started the thread. Politicians have to put up with opinions and accusations that can often wouldn't be considered fair and reasonable.

No they don't...you obviously haven't got much of a clue about Australia's libel laws. 'Free speech' on the internet is a myth.

It's not my problem.....and I sleep fine, thanks anyway.

[SteveL]

People can pretty much say what they want unless it's through the media.

LOL....yeah, keep believing that.

[regan]

Oz is a fair country but not the system that is in place...ending the 15 yr rule is no difference to big corporate buying out the small companies. I thought the system supports small businesses but maybe not in this case, some incentives are far more lucrative.  my 2c.

How many users of this forum are disadvantaged as they are now un-able to import a-

MX-5 ?

Nissan Patrols?

Commercial vehicles?

Toyota Surfs?

Toyota Celsior?

ect...ect

32 skylines will shortly be avaliable through a RAW as will Zeds!!!! 33,s have allways been avaliable and have never qualified as 15 year old imports.

The SEV,s list has also made vehicles avaliable, never imported here previously such as the V-35 and the Stagea with many new models to follow...

You all have the right to be "dark" with the way the decision was implemented, and i would agree with the conspiracy theorists as to who had what input. But I fail to see how the new "Regs" can STOP anybody importing a 1989-current Skyline..... After all is this not called SKYLINES AUSTRALIA........ The MX-5 club may be complaining!!!!!