GTR conversion to LPG

[psybic]

psybic, please tell me how you know that gas will always be cheap. As I said before, diesel was cheap once.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't. Nothing is certain. So I choose to watch a trend. For the last 5 years, the price difference between gas and petrol has gotten larger by quite alot.

My point wasn't so much about a huge number of kms, more about the study suggest 3 years when you saved say 40c per litre. So if you now save 80c per litre, it would mean 1.5 years.

I really really liked driving my GTR (bless its sole) and if I knew that a tank was going to cost half as much with gas, I would have liked it more. You can tell me that its not the right car for me cause I don't mind losing 30kws. Then I could tell you to stop being a poof and aim for 400rwkws in your car, when you say you can't afford it, or even, you don't want to, I could then say, well you should shouldn't drive a skyline.

Whats wrong with people wanting cheap running costs and wanting something different to the fastest GTR in the known universe?

[Col-GTSX]

When i was doing my aprentiship i was told to my suprise that gas can actually produce more power then petrol.... My teacher drive a 351 V8 hot rod running gas.... He always stated that gas is the better fuel... But it took me ages to get my head around what he was suggesting....

Soon gas will become a very common item on factory cars....

Ford ba falcon produces 184kw at the flywheel on 95 premium....

Ford ba falcon produced 184kw at the flywheel on gas......

Ford also go on to state that the gas motor will last longer in km's as there is less stress on the whole setup. However servicing cost are slightlly higher.... Take the price on fuel today (30/9/2005) Unleaded average in Brisbane $1.22.... Average on gas $0.43....

So servicing costs just got blown out the window cause you save 60% on your fuel costs... Also note ford say you got about 550km from a tank of fuel.... The gas version gets 650km per tank..... So once again gas wins.....

Thats why most taxi's use gas. You will also notice all the new ba falcon cabs are all gas.... Have not seen a petrol one yet in Brisbane....

[Sydneykid]

The number one point LPG has going for it now, is the difference between the price of it and petrol. It is getting bigger, do I have to start a worm graph to prove it? How long have you guys been driving, longer than me I bet and you can't seem to notice the price gap getting bigger all the time? Its not hard to see that the savings increase as the price difference increases.

From this morning's Age..........

The VACC said there was.... "a tendency for LPG prices to follow petrol prices".

LPG prices are based on the Saudi contract price........

LPG is still free of excise, but that will change in 2011, when the Federal Government begins introducing a 12.5 cents a litre excise...

From the Federal Gov't Science, Technology, Environment and Resources Group...

"World prices of LPG in general move in line with crude oil prices"

From the ALPGA.......

"LPG Spot prices around the world have increased in a gradual manner since May 2003 due to the growing global demand. However, Spot prices increased dramatically during August as a result of very strong demand from China and the USA."

There are quite few more, but I think you get the drift. LPG prices are not going to continue at the current discounted level compared to petrol. So what small real world advantage there is will be gone and you will be stuck with the lousy performance, poor resale value, limited range and inconvenience for no tangible benefit.

cheers

[Beer Baron]

and a huge pressurised tank of gas in your car.. plus a cloud of roten egg smelling exhaust following you around.

[thommo]

plus the sacrilidge of owning an "lpg" GTR. eww....

[browny]

Col-GTSX

Figures from Ford Austs web site:

Facon XT

Barra 182 engine (4.0L DOHC VCT I6)

182kW @ 5000 RPM

380Nm @ 3250 RPM

68L tank

11.5 L/100km

504 L boot

E-Gas Engine (4.0L DOHC VCT Egas I6)

156kW @ 4750 RPM

372Nm @ 3000 RPM

93L tank

15.3 L/100km

379 L boot

Maybe i'm missing something, but the Egas engine appears to produce 14% less power, use 33% more fuel and you lose 25% of boot space.

Taxis only use gas because they do mega km.

[Col-GTSX]

Dont know why those figues are on the web site....

I got the official saervice manual right here....

States an average consumption of 9.8 litres per 100km

as the petrol version is 13.2 round town

States highest recorded was

7.7 per 100 on gas

10.7 per 100 on unleaded....

Thats the ford official service manual on the BA

[Col-GTSX]

Checked it out with the service manager

The gas engine does produce less power... It was originally surposed to make the same power but design changes reduced its output....

So the web site is true... Sorry

[Col-GTSX]

As for the fuel consumption.... Who can ever tell unless you get one and drive it for a couple of weeks.....

[browny]

The figures I pinched from the web site are from one of the ADR drive cycle tests, so as a reasonably controlled comparison, that'll do for me.

[Col-GTSX]

Yeah....

Im happy with that....

I just dont notice the difference in power inbetween the lpg and the petrol.....

Ive drive both almost daily and dont notice the difference....

[Col-GTSX]

Just dosent make sence.....

Id still buy the Lpg if i were to buy a falcon.... Will make a huge difference in resale value....

[browny]

Hey I agree that LPG is good value for a commuter hack.

I don't agree that it's a good idea to take a good performance car and spend a bunch of money on it to make it a worse performance car, just to save a few bucks on running costs.

[Col-GTSX]

Yeah back to topic....

I would not like to see a GTR run gas (heart)

however

I would like to see a GTR run gas (head)

Im devided inbetween history/centimantle value and future tech/world firsts

[thedriver]

Seems this is a bit of a rollercoaster.

I do over 25,000km per year, so the economics of it are in my favour.

But that's not why I want to do it...

SK - You have some valid points, but some of your arguments are flawed.

There are now available 3rd Gen LPG injectors that are far more advanced than a simple and bulky mixer.

There are even injectors available that do not require remapping of ECU.

Who cares about depreciation when you own the car of your drems... and infact, gas powered cars are now being more and more sought after BECAUSE of the rising price in petrol.

If you are frequently running your car so close to the empty wallet end of the gauge, you run the risk of drawing larger contaminants through the fuel line.

An excise is being introduced for all Low, Mid and High energy fuels that currently do not incur any excise. The 12.5c excise for LPG is being introduced at 2.5c per year from July 2011 - 2015 and is capped at 12.5c. The full 12.5c excise will not come into effect immediately come 2011. Even at 12.5c, it is still less than 1/3 the excise imposed on petrol.

NickR33 - Fuel prices will never stabilise!!! I'm sorry, that's a rediculous statement. I remember 20 years ago when fuel was about 15c/l and it has continued to rise ever since!!! Where do you think it will go from here???

China and India/Pakistan will only add pressure to the dwindling pot and the requriements for refined oil will increase. Australians are buying more SUVs and 4WDs than ever before... only now are the sales of these vehicles in the US starting to slow.

thommo - the real sacrilidge is if you're the one inhaling the fumes of the gas powered gtr / stagea... cant keep up??? well suck on this rotten egg

Anyway, all said and done, I'm going to give it a shot... hoefully before the year is out. When it is done, I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes.

In the meantime, I'll have to have a chat to some of those Vl lads and see what i can find out.

[psybic]

thommo - the real sacrilidge is if you're the one inhaling the fumes of the gas powered gtr / stagea...        cant keep up??? well suck on this rotten egg 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hell yeah. Would be awesome to smoke a few petrol powered cars and I think a RB26 is a good base to do that.

Good luck with the conversion if you go ahead. Its an excellent idea and good on the first few people to try it, because there will ofcourse be many teething problems...

[thommo]

thommo - the real sacrilidge is if you're the one inhaling the fumes of the gas powered gtr / stagea...        cant keep up??? well suck on this rotten egg 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you're right, it would be embarassing being smoked by a stinking underperforming GTR.

not as embarassing as having to explain to someone why you took a perfectly good GTR, spent a decent amount of money on a new fuel system, to obtain an end result being a car that has lower levels of performance, almost impossible resale value for the purpose of saving money on fuel ???

maybe spend that couple of grand on a cheap runaround?

you may want this to be "individual" or "different". fair enough, it's really not anyone elses business and i wish you all the best.

but in my opinion LPG GTR = sacrilidge.

[Beer Baron]

the day you see any tangible economic benefit from this 'brilliant' idea i will buy you a beer mate... I hope you are not thirsty.

[browny]

What sort of depreciation does 25,000 km p.a. result in?

[_IrIsH_]

LPG is a bandaid solution.

as pointed out previsouly as everybody doesnt want to touch oil or disel due to its

price rise they look for alternatives, ie lpg

hence demand goes up and so does price.