Police Chases- What do you reckon?

[Kel]

Now I’m sure we’re all pretty likely to have strong opinions on this, so let’s play nice kids!

What’s your take on police chases?

The incident where the 2 blokes in the stolen car got killed last Friday night at Macquarie Fields after a 'high speed police chase' seems to have stirred up the debate again.

The riots which followed have taken some of the attention away from the role of the police in the chase, but at first the media gave a lot of play to the “cops are killers, police chases are bad” rants.

I just find it disappointing they’re not talking about the fact that these guys were in a stolen car, nor are they looking at placing the blame with the ‘hero’ driver who put the car into a tree, killing his “mates” before he took off.

To me, it seems that they’ve missed the point. Or, should we all just be saying “Sure, go right ahead and steal my car without fear of being caught. Better yet, why don’t you use it to do a ram-raid, or an armed robbery? Hey, I know! Since you probably don’t have a licence, why don’t you just hoon around showing off, and see if you can take out a member of my family, or a friend in the process”.

So I guess you know how I feel- what does everyone else reckon?

[Blitz]

If the kids hadnt broken the law by stealing a car, this incident wouldnt have happened. They chose to try and evade police, and in doing so lost control of their car which they didnt have the ability or experience to control, resulting in tragedy.

[fatz]

i just want to see the police with the sand bag bullets hammering bogans!!!!!!!

show me

[silver gts-t]

well i think the kids put themselves in this situation

it was there own choice, if their parents were more responsible also it could have been avoided.

this isnt them police's fault

they were doing there job, are we suppose to let criminal get away? even if the police backed off do you think they would of cruised around the street doing the speed limit?

my opinion is if there isnt anyone around then chase them

if there is by standers to back off.

then the local want to show australia how civilised they are by letting there kids go up against the police and riot. i blame PARENTS!!!

if i did that i would cop the beating of my life from my old man!!

[Liz]

yeah i agree with silv on this one...chase em if no one around...back off if not.

the police have been forced to do this coz of the lack of disipline that these kids received growing up (I mean don't receive).

I know that if these kids were in my car I'd want the police to chase the f*ck out of them...catch them...and bash the sh!t out of their little bogan heads.

sand bag bullets...where can I buy?

[Merli]

You know, I was of the exact same mindset as the rest of you on this issue until Monday night.

It's easy coming from a decent education, living in a safe neighbourhood and easy-going community to look at disgust at the actions of these teenagers. They randomly steal and torch cars, break house windows, steal, break and enter into houses, roam the streets at night for the sole purpose of seeing what trouble they can cause.

But on Monday I happened to watch an A Current Affair report on this situation. Ignoring the reporting (which I thought was quite balanced actually) and without questioning their journalistic integrity, several facts could be gleaned from watching the report.

The police are not innocent. Partly from a snowballing effect (kids are bad, police get tougher, kids gets worse, police get tougher, kids get even more worse, police get tougher again and so on) and partly because police out in those suburbs are jaded from the years of dealing with criminals like these.

There was an honest interview with several of the residents of Macquarie Fields, and they all testified to police harrassment. It included general harrassment tactics used by bored police such as shadowing people on the street in their police cars waiting for them to do something wrong and then persecuting them, and things like that. Also, driving around at 4am in the morning and blasting out "Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do" song out of their police cruisers at full volume waking everyone up. I can easily see how this kind of behaviour would just be adding fuel to the volatile temperament of these teenagers causing an escalation of crime in retaliation.

The Police are NOT innocent in this.

The second point I learned lately was that this was inevitable. It was just a matter of time. The government builds housing commission estates and throws all of these poor, bored and abused families together in the one place and forgets about them. The kids don't goto school, the parents don't care. So what do they do? They're bored out of their minds with nothing to do all day. Nothing constructive anyway. The police get posted to these communities with the opinion that they're criminals and low-lifes before they even get there. So their treatment and dealings with these kids are rough and abusive before they even get a chance to prove otherwise.

It's pretty sick actually. It was just a matter of time.

[eXc]

Police should have a LOT more power then what they do now. If they could do 'real' crime prevention they wouldnt be hassling BS things like BOV's and exhausts.

The problem isn't the police are lazy, the problem is there is no point them fighting crime. The murderers get off, the man slaughter get convicted. Stealing a car etc etc when you are under 18?16? nothing happens to you anyways, you get scrwed up with bank loans and stuff like that, but u dont get punished as such. My bro is an example. He straightened out now and its hard for him to do things the right way now cause he wont be given a chance. But he didn't get any real punishment for the crimes he did. Oh he did get punished (gaol term) for something he DIDN'T do...the good old 'girls never lie' deal + his previous record.

Policing is a friggen joke. Capitol punishment needs to be in. Like, the police dont (cant) stop crime with the current rules. The only thing stopping crime is a persons own respect for hismelf and others. Many people don't have that nowadays.

If there was things like 10 years jail for stealing a car. not many ppl would take the risk. but fact is even if you are an adult stealing a car wont land u in much trouble. As a child nothing will happen to you.

If you are found 100% no doubt guilty on murder, then....hmm actually I don't think you should be killed ( I used to) but you should be punished severly, not get let off after 3 months

[Ryan D]

The police are there to try and protect the citizens, if they are breaking the law the police are doing there job by trying to stop them, however ITS ONLY A CAR, let them go, as stated by the media, the guy was known to police, and showed up at the police station the next day to report for bail reasons.

The police should chase them for a bit, if they dont pull up, forget it. Its a materialistic thing, which can be replaced (yes i understand some people cant afford insurance) however life cant be replaced, the person may be a criminal, but im sure everyone has a relative not exactly on the straight and narrow, and im sure you'd be angry too if a police chase led to their death.

A large percentage of cops these days have a big ego problem, and are always looking for that oppertunity to get the pat on the back from his sarge. If it doesnt carry some sort of recognition or reward.. the cops wont waste their time.

[CerealKiller]

Police were just doing their job. There's no one else to blame but the driver - how he can live with the guilt of killing two of his mates and proceed in the riot is beyond me.

A little off topic...I wonder what the reaction would've been like if it was a Skyline that crashed?

[eXc]

shadowing people on the street in their police cars waiting for them to do something wrong and then persecuting them, and things like that.  

So don't do the wrong things? DUH (not a personal attack no you)

Also, driving around at 4am in the morning and blasting out "Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do" song out of their police cruisers at full volume waking everyone up. I can easily see how this kind of behaviour would just be adding fuel to the volatile temperament of these teenagers causing an escalation of crime in retaliation.  

Wasn't aware of that. So if that's true, yeah you're right they are stirring them, and those police should be punished.

The Police are NOT innocent in this.

I find the whole 'oh i had such a hard life' BS reason. I have mates that have done it tough. They did petty stuff like stealing food and drinks, it was wrong, but that was how they knew to live. Stealing a car is a differnt story, making police chase you endangering everyones like is just wrong. There is a world of difference between people from a bad neighbourhood/upcringing or whatever and common sense and courtisy.

I know quite a few families that have come to australia, from africa, with only their watches to pawn (african law required you could only take what you could carry, so when you left the house and property either became the govt. or you sold it and gave them the money.) One family came with 3 kids, they have had 3 more since, they still have nothing, they are hugley in debt, they have no financial future at all. And you know what? None of them has ever done any crime (ok...i am guessing they prolly have sped...run a red light..littered....but u know what i mean) If you can come to a country with about $300 and a family and survive 23 years without any crime, these people have no reason to claim they needed to steal the car.

I know that it is cliche about the one bad apple.... and it's true that it happens. What is not true, is that is what is to blame. Everyone makes there own choices. I garuntee you will find people in these 'hard' neighbourhoods that dont do crime. That is proof that it is personal choice. Same that when 2 ppl are brought up the same, they can be totally different people (take me and my brother for example..we had a good life, we grew up on $25,000 income into the house, but we always had food. a home. a tv. a car. we were even lucky enough to have a motorbike ...granted it was a $500 one...)

Merli, this was not a personal attack on you, so please don't take it that way.

I just get annoyed with the sob stories when I have seen many, many people make a lot of themselves from one of the bad backgrounds. I understand people have it hard. I don't understand the need for crime outside of the neccisity to live. If I had no home and no-one to trust, chances are I would revert to stealing for food aswell. Actually, i'd just go to a youth centre or something. But I know they exist...others may not.

[Merli]

That's all true, and I agree...

But my point was NOT to lay on a sob story, it was to point out that it's not entirely their fault for turning out the way they have. The police and government have influenced their choices as much as they have themselves.

When you have to deal with harrassment everyday, whether it be from the police, a co-worker, or your spouse, you very quickly turn hostile against them. You lash out at the co-worker with a sexual harrasment case. You lash out at your spouse by filing for divorce... Or in this case, they lash out by wrecking havoc on the streets and retailiating physically towards the police. What else can they do? Setup a meeting with the police commissioner and arbitrate a common resolution? Lets be realistic here.

I do think that a major contributing factor for this entire outburst stemmed from the government's decision to build housing commission estates where all these criminally-weighted families are lumped together. Mob mentality raises it's head, and when the only people you associate with are burning cars, and roaming the streets with no goal in life, you'll quickly fall in line.

I realise that there are probably families living there that have resisted this type of life even though they are facing just as bleak a future as the rest of them. That's a factor of the strength of parental guidance, which the vast majority of these families lack. But you have to agree what when 90% of the people surrounding your life have turned to a life of aimless destruction and crime, chances are that you'll follow suit.

[Tigger]

I completely agree with eXc.

Not everyone whos had it rough turns to car theft. And even if the cause is poverty or some other general social disadvantage, why car theft? As far as i know, these kids are not members of some sophisticated car rebirthing circle. They stole these cars for a joyride, not to put food on the table. Others who are in the same or even worser situations manage to stop themselves from stealing cars. How is this possible? Is it in the genes or something? Are they genetically superior to these retards who couldnt help but jimmy their way into somebody else's car and accidentally hot wire it?

Thats the way i see it. If 2 people are brought up in the same environment and one turns to crime while the other doesnt, the only possible explanation is their genes. One is a genetic defect, the other is not. Its like people being born with particular qualities... one person may have a voice that makes them an excellent singer, another may have a shithouse voice but have the brains to be successful academically. Their genes determine this, and by the same reasoning, if a person is more prone to crime than another, its in their genes whether it be a weakness of conscience or moral reasoning. Simple as that.

Oh my... now i've opened up a big can or worms...

Let the flaming begin...

[Merli]

^

[silver gts-t]

^

:werd:

[CS_180]

im sorry to say merli but ..............IT IS entirely thier fault

i deal with these people every day.......and i know they way they think.

they hate the world and they choose to be that way.

i lived in housing commision when i was younger and i turned out all right.

it is alledged that the poilce play the music loud at nite while driving around . However funnily enough these allegations are being made by the people that are causing all the trouble at the moment

the accident was in NO WAY the fault of the police, that blame lies soley on the coward that was driving the car and then ran away from the scene of the accident and his two mates that he killed.!!!

[eXc]

Thats the way i see it. If 2 people are brought up in the same environment and one turns to crime while the other doesnt, the only possible explanation is their genes. One is a genetic defect, the other is not.

I would just say it comes down more to choice and personality than genes. But yeah, say for example child 1 and 2 are brought up the same, dad is a plumber, uncles a plumber, hell lets say all the male relos are plumbers. Does that mean that both children will become plumbers? No. They still will have the choice. Chances are they will...IF they like it....if they don't like it...guess what? They won't do it, cause they have seen it, and won't wanna be a part of it. Same with crime, just cause your family are criminals, you still should have the mental ability to work out what is right or wrong. If you choose the wrong thing, then you should blame yourself.

If you were forced to do it however, I would say that is a different case (i.e. mum and dad are crims and know the kid wont get in truble so they teach him from when he can talk that stealing is ok...in that case, it isn't the childs fault. If however it happened when he is 12, he should have the ability to know right from wrong.

[Lepperfish]

im sorry to say merli but ..............IT IS  entirely thier fault  

i deal with these people every day.......and i know they way they think.

they hate the world and they choose to be that way.  

i lived in housing commision when i was younger and i turned out all right.

it is alledged that the poilce play the music loud at nite while driving around . However funnily enough these allegations are being made by the people that are causing all the trouble at the moment  

the accident was in NO WAY the fault of the police, that blame lies soley on the coward that was driving the car and then ran away from the scene of the accident and his two mates that he killed.!!!

Agreed.. :Bang:

[cul202]

There is also the group metality that 'we can get away with it now, so why not?'.

Going back to my old UWS Nepean days....

A group of about 10 teenagers got on the train with me at Kingswood Stn headining toward the city. They seemed rather aggressive, but this was quite normal after dark behaviour on many western Sydney stn's, so I ended up in the same carrage as them.

Aside from intimidating othe passengers, they were boasting about the cars they stole, people they'd fu(ed over, etc. The main thing is they all agreed that when they turned 18, it was all going to stop. One of them even said 'I'll probably do 2 more (cars) before next year 'cause I'll be 18 then'

The lack of power from the Police' point of view was seemingly adding to the controlled behaviour of those under 18...

.

[Babylon]

I dont give a shit about the kids or the police

im just burning that how the hell is australia going to win a world cup host

if we cant control 200 kids whats going to happen when Germany play England

these cops need riot training

[rukus]

apparently the chase went on for less than a minute so u cant do much then.

anyways, those retards knew what they were getting into when they *tried* to evade the cops. they deserve it.

kill all the rioters plz. ta.