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dad is a plumber, uncles a plumber, hell lets say all the male relos are plumbers. Does that mean that both children will become plumbers? No. They still will have the choice.

Everyone has choices. But some aren't as clear as others.

What if those kids had nothing to do all day? What if their entire community was filled with plumbers? What if everywhere they turned they saw plumbers and they didn't goto school to learn any other trade? Do you REALLY think that they have many choices other than being a plumber?

Whatever. I'm not going to defend these teenage criminals anymore. I have no idea what they're going through, as my life has probably been the EXACT opposite of what these guys faced. All I know is that through living the opposite life, that things aren't always as they seem, and that you are more than likely the product of your surroundings, whether they be good or bad. If success breeds success, then the opposite must be true.

I'm not sympathising with them, I'm not condoning what they're doing. From my point of view, I can just see WHY.

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man i came from a war torn country to live in one of Sydney’s worse areas

tell you what Maqurie fields looks like heaven on earth compared to the middle east

but how ever i made a choice to get a education and a good job

i made choice not to steal cars or sell drugs

im sick of people trying to analise every bloody incident and talk about the bigger picture when there isnt one their.

those who live by the sword die by the sword.

Everyone has choices. But some aren't as clear as others.

I can absolutely see your point Merli - the kids involved in this probably had a pretty crap upbringing and not much choice in terms of living a different life.

And while I can't comment on the police's behaviour generally towards this group, I'm sure it's not all that innocent.

My point though is about police chases and specifically I'm just getting more and more p*ssed off that media is giving a greater voice to the "police chases are bad/ cops are killers" stories of the families and friends of those killed fleeing the police.

Comments like these put criminals above the law- they imply police shouldn't be able to do their job - i.e. apprehend suspected criminals or people committing crimes.

They also mean that we, the 'public' whose cars get stolen and who run the risk of being injured or killed by a driver who couldn't care less about behaving legally, have virtually no rights.

They had this mother on 60 Minutes a while back, whose son stole a car and was seen driving dangerously, well above the speed limit, before the police started a chase. From memory, he had no licence, just thought a joyride would be fun. He hit a tree and died. The mother, all teary eyed and emotional, said she didn't realise car theft was punishable in Australia with a death sentance. I wonder if she thought the alternative, perhaps her son continuing down the road on his merry way, plowing into a Tarago carrying a family of 6, was a better punishment?

you speed you run the risk of killing youself or some other innocent person just going to work or coming home from work. The fact that this dipshit of a driver killed 2 of his mates before running from the scene, and yet the cops are the ones being called the killers :confused: i do hope they get the driver and put him up for murder or at the least man slaughter.

Everyone has choices. But some aren't as clear as others.

Agreed.

What if those kids had nothing to do all day? What if their entire community was filled with plumbers? What if everywhere they turned they saw plumbers and they didn't goto school to learn any other trade? Do you REALLY think that they have many choices other than being a plumber?

I'm not sympathising with them, I'm not condoning what they're doing. From my point of view, I can just see WHY.

No disrespect, but mate what's with this tree hugging crap? We all have problems. I've been supporting myself since I was 15. I never stole, I never broke the law, I never hurt noone. If I needed money - I worked, nothing special but little by little, I built my way up. Of course there are times when it seems the whole world is out to get you, it's a part of life. Yes - environment and upbringing does play a part in a person's character, but for FFS, YOU ultimately decide who YOU will be.

These people do not deserve a chance if they act like this. They are biting the hand that feeds them. The government is ENDURING their laziness and indifference to life. They are giving them dole, they are giving them cheap housing, and ultimately, the big picture is that they are trying to give them a leg up in life. And then they have the gall to turn around and complain???

We need to have a form of semi-compulsory army drafting in Australia. Doesn't need to be everyone, but if you've been long-term unemployed or act like these "people" then why would anyone object to such a proposal? On a tangent - to be honest even if it was for everyone I wouldnt mind. Good life experience.

And I also watched that Current Affair thing last night. Funny, it left me even more disgusted rather than empathetic towards these people. Man those reporters are a bunch of pussies. I like how they conveniently avoided all the hard-hitting questions like, "So if your son didn't steal that car, do you think he would still be alive today?" & "Could you please clarify how people in this neighbourhood can afford cigarettes, tats, drugs, booze, have food to eat, have a place to sleep at night, and yet somehow they do not have the foundations to become contributors to society?" It isn't like they live in a ****ing third-world country where there really isn't any opportunity. Make the most of what you got, u know?

Then people would complain about the drafting.

Personally myself i wouldnt complain, i would drop everything right now to go to NSW to do basic trainning and start a career in the army. Just the fact im underweight is holding me back.

I get youth allowance every fornight and trust me mate its not the best. I get enough just to get by every 2 weeks. Only help i recieve is cheap rent from my mum, im not proud that i get these payments and have tried my hardest to get a job but its not easy.

Reporters in my opinion dont give a shit about anyone but themselves, If they did care about a real story then your right, they would be asking unbiased questions, or the hard questions that brings out the truth, and not make themselves look good.

man i came from a war torn country to live in one of Sydney’s worse areas

tell you what Maqurie fields looks like heaven on earth compared to the middle east

Exactl. The people i know that came from africa were the same sorta thing, if your white over there, it's pretty much normal to have people come in and bash/steal your things. The common beleif is that s3x with a white girl cures aids (which apparently was actually endorsed by the govt) so any black person will rape the white girls to kill them off with them thinking they are helping themselves.

Things like that...australia is a great country. People have no idea how free we really are. The only problem is freedom allows the people to reduce the police to security gaurds. Oh boo hoo mr police man hit me cause i was caught stealing a car and i took a swing at him... u deserved it moron.

Sorry, but i have very little sympathy for those people. I do have some, but the majority is down to personal choice. They chose it, now they should be punished...but they wont be...

Most people outside of Macquarie Fields reckon they got it coming. You steal a car and evade police and you hit a tree, it's your fault.

However one would be stupid to ignore environment.

I think the psychologists would call it 'nature vs. nurture'.

I understand that these people grow up in an a society that does not give them a chance and that they are oppressed to some degree.

But that is a contributing factor to this behaviour, not a root cause.

You'd be very shortsighted to not see that this area is not going to produce our best and brightness let alone allow these kids to have a reasonable future.

Most people look at Macquarie Fields and immediately they think about the kind of people who live there. It's not attractive and if you wanna see some Sydney ghettos, there you are.

T.

I just find it disappointing they’re not talking about the fact that these guys were in a stolen car, nor are they looking at placing the blame with the ‘hero’ driver who put the car into a tree, killing his “mates” before he took off.

To me, it seems that they’ve missed the point. Or, should we all just be saying “Sure, go right ahead and steal my car without fear of being caught. Better yet, why don’t you use it to do a ram-raid, or an armed robbery? Hey, I know! Since you probably don’t have a licence, why don’t you just hoon around showing off, and see if you can take out a member of my family, or a friend in the process”.

So I guess you know how I feel- what does everyone else reckon?

i feel the same as you on this Kel

As for the riots, the cops should get a fire truck full of capsicum spary and let loose on all the idiots braking the law by throwing molotov ****tails and bricks and whatever else they can find at the police. To hell with the civil liberties in this case.

Also bloody john brogden is pissing me off with some of his comments (even though in fed elections i like liberals as i think Costello knows what he is doing when it comes to the economy) because i believe he wouldnt have a bloody clue what to do if he were premier. :)

Now I’m sure we’re all pretty likely to have strong opinions on this, so let’s play nice kids!

What’s your take on police chases?

The incident where the 2 blokes in the stolen car got killed last Friday night at Macquarie Fields after a 'high speed police chase' seems to have stirred up the debate again.

The riots which followed have taken some of the attention away from the role of the police in the chase, but at first the media gave a lot of play to the “cops are killers, police chases are bad” rants.

I just find it disappointing they’re not talking about the fact that these guys were in a stolen car, nor are they looking at placing the blame with the ‘hero’ driver who put the car into a tree, killing his “mates” before he took off.

To me, it seems that they’ve missed the point. Or, should we all just be saying “Sure, go right ahead and steal my car without fear of being caught. Better yet, why don’t you use it to do a ram-raid, or an armed robbery? Hey, I know! Since you probably don’t have a licence, why don’t you just hoon around showing off, and see if you can take out a member of my family, or a friend in the process”.

So I guess you know how I feel- what does everyone else reckon?

my opinion is they shouldn't have even been in the bloody car to begin with (with it being stolen and all).

But it also depends on the seriousness/severity of the situation. If it's a serial killer they are chasing, who is completely mentally unstable and will kill again at the drop of a hat, then sure, why not. But some kids joyriding, then maybe not. It's a tough question.

But anyway, like i said, on that particular incident, why in gods name were they stealing a car in the first place? And now everyone makes the cops look bad? Why? when the kids were clearly in the wrong

Interesting...

What happened in MF's is a clear indication of society these days...No one wants to take any responsibility for the wrongs they do...Police are paid & trained to protect our country, & granted, they are not always innocent, this particular situation was an open & shut case in their regards...

These 'adults' (using the term loosely) stole a car & kept driving when getting busted was the inevitable - obviously old enough & ugly enough to understand the concept of right & wrong...If the police had not chased them what could have happened??? They could have killed some innocent bystander/s or caused destruction in some other form...

My heart goes out to anyone that loses someone they love & to the loss of life, but seriously - when are we going to take responsibility & just admit when we are wrong???

Wow - this is a little intense - I hope my point does not offend!!!

I just hate how Jesse Kelly is portrayed by media. According to Telegraph and Current affairs he is such a victim and going through such emotionally distressing times.

THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR STEALING A CAR, FLEEING FROM THE COPS AND DRIVING LIKE AN IDIOT, YOU STUPID SCUMBAG.

Don't people understand these things? Our society is going nowhere. Drives me up the wall, along with pool photo bans, cops getting sued for damages, extreme political correctness and other conservative do-gooder buill$hit.

Igor's pretty much nailed it - for the most part, it's the whole "politically correct" and conservativeness that is bringing this world unstuck. Maybe the cops shouldn't have given chase. But if they didn't , would the idiot driver have sped or done something equally stupid anyway? Would he still have crashed and killed two of his passengers? Would it have been someone else, if not them? There's too many questions which will remain unanswered there. It comes back to the "butterfly effect" - change one thing here and see how much/little it affects everything around it.

I guess we, as the general public, will never know EXACTLY what happened in the situation that sparked the chase, the accident and the subsequent riots. I honestly haven't been keeping track of the whole situation apart from the very few snippets of news that I might happen to hear in passing. Also, news that the police have been taunting people from the area (if it's true, and let's not forget that this is probably not the only area in which this happens), isn't doing the police any favours.

My opinion, based on what little I know, is that if there WAS a lot of people/homes/traffic around, then the police shouldn't have given chase.

But the loser who's crashed the car and killed those two passengers (who could have made the choice not to get in the car in the first place, by the way) should just bite the bullet and turn himself in - it's only going to get worse for him the longer he holds out.

My 2 cents,

Nick T.

But the loser who's crashed the car and killed those two passengers (who could have made the choice not to get in the car in the first place, by the way) should just bite the bullet and turn himself in - it's only going to get worse for him the longer he holds out.

in the passengers defence, they may have been in for a joy ride, but not running from the cops...at which point the driver wouldnt let them out...so...i dunno, hard to say what level of punishment they should have got.. But the driver deserves everything that is coming to him, but he wont get charged with manslaughter or neg driving cause the police chased him and invoked it (that's how the courts will play it)

It's stupid.

Why aren't there people rioting on behalf of the 'good' people instead of defending the guilty. We should start a riot! ;D

I just hate how Jesse James is portrayed by media. According to Telegraph and Current affairs he is such a victim and going through such emotionally distressing times.

THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR STEALING A CAR, FLEEING FROM THE COPS AND DRIVING LIKE AN IDIOT, YOU STUPID SCUMBAG.

Don't people understand these things? Our society is going nowhere. Drives me up the wall, along with pool photo bans, cops getting sued for damages, extreme political correctness and other conservative do-gooder buill$hit.

YOU sir, should get a bloody award! (im not being sarcastic either)

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