any one know much about the gtr gear bag?

[mark morris]

hello all,

I just broke my poor r33 gtr gear box :goddam: . I was just going from 3rd to 4th (accelerating hard) and it just was'nt there, so I went back to third and it also was'nt their (just free wheeling like in nutral) so I stoped. I worked out that I could use 1st, 2nd and 5th to limp it home on the way home I could only get 5th some of the time the rest of the time it free wheeled like 3rd and 4th!! (By the way, there was no noises, vibrations ect. coming from the box at any time.) Now i'm thinking it the linkages or selectors, but not to sure about gtr boxes, most of the work ive done g'boxes is trucks ie, roadrangers 18, spicers 21, ect.. I havent investigated yet, too hot to touch. just wondering if you can get to selectors with out removing the box ect.. as i havent a car hoist, i might just drop the oil anyway to make sure there is no gear food on the plug. :Paranoid:

any advice would be great!

kind regards, mark

[ferni]

Sounds like a selector has gone, interesting its more common for 3rd gear to go bang (like so: http://gtr.ferni.net/photos/07%20-%20Gearb...ox%20go%20BANG/ )

Not sure about fixing them tho sorry, there are a few guys on here that would know. I can tell you a brand new one from Nissan is around 3.3k

[SteveL]

I just broke my poor r33 gtr gear box :goddam: . I was just going from 3rd to 4th  (accelerating hard) and it just was'nt there, so I went back to third and it also was'nt their (just free wheeling like in nutral) so I stoped.  I worked out that I could use 1st, 2nd and 5th to limp it home on the way home I could only get 5th some of the time the rest of the time it free wheeled like 3rd and 4th!! (By the way, there was no noises, vibrations ect. coming from the box at any time.) Now i'm thinking it the linkages or selectors, but not to sure about gtr boxes, most of the work ive done g'boxes is trucks ie, roadrangers 18, spicers 21, ect.. I havent investigated yet, too hot to touch. just wondering if you can get to selectors with out removing the box ect.. as i havent a car hoist, i might just drop the oil anyway to make sure there is no gear food on  the plug

To get to the selectors, etc requires removing and stripping the gearbox.

The fact that your having trouble getting 5th suggests to me that you might be lucky and it's 'just' a broken 3/4 shift fork that's the problem. 5/reverse gears are operated by a sub-link system, one end of which is supported by a boss on the 3/4 shift fork. A broken or damaged 3/4 shift fork would lead to the main sub-link rod wandering around and selection problems.

Dropping the gearbox oil will tell the story....

[mark morris]

Ok,

I droped the oil and found nothing on the plug! Upon further inspection(poking around inside the drain hole, I found that there is half of a complete shif fork in the bottem of the box! (sounds like you were right on the money "SteveL" SHEEEEET! So I have started to pull it out.

Im doing it on jack stands, its a big sucker and think im gonna have to make up a cradle at work to hook on the trolly jack, rather than man handeling it!

When I get it out, I dont think ill have a go at striping it myself (no speacial tools, manual ect...) what do you guys think is the best way to go about it just find a local transmition reconditioner and get the fork and what ever else is broken replaced(or complete over haul, ie. dose the main shaft, c/shaft ect have to be removed destroying bearings ect..)

Or, just buy a second hand box or new box?

"ferni" is that 3.3k for a complete box if so is their any one that could give me the correct part no. for a r33 box?

or possibly r34 6spd hmmm. would it fit? could I afford it? dose the r34 have the same diff ratios? I hope the answer to the last 3 questions is NO!!

thanks in advance for your advice.

[mark morris]

Ha! just found a screw in the inside wall of one of my brand new 275/35/x 18s.

Just not my day man!

[SteveL]

I droped the oil and found nothing on the plug! Upon further inspection(poking around inside the drain hole, I found that there is half of a complete shif fork in the bottem of the box! (sounds like you were right on the money "SteveL" SHEEEEET! So I have started to pull it out.

If there's no steel parts on the drain plug magnet there's a good chance the rest of the gb is OK.

Im doing it on jack stands, its a big sucker and think im gonna have to make up a cradle at work to hook on the trolly jack, rather than man handeling it!

Yeh, they're a heavy, awkward mongrel...

When I get it out, I dont think ill have a go at striping it myself (no speacial tools, manual ect...) what do you guys think is the best way to go about it just find a local transmition reconditioner and get the fork and what ever else is broken replaced(or complete over haul, ie. dose the main shaft, c/shaft ect have to be removed destroying bearings ect..)

Once you get the gb out, it's just a matter of dropping the bell-housing to get to the shift forks - no special tools required to replace those. If it were me I'd be looking to just replace the broken fork and be done with it, unless there's other obvious damage to gears, bearings, etc. - especially if the geabox was working OK up 'til the time the fork broke. 3/4 shift fork is around the $120 mark. A set of bearings is about $250, then there's gaskets, seals and sealants.

Or, just buy a second hand box or new box?

"ferni" is that 3.3k for a complete box if so is their any one that could give me the correct part no. for a r33 box?.

Secondhand gearbox will be around $1K. The new gearbox ferni mentions is complete less the 4WD transfer case and shifter mechanism. The advantage of just getting another gb is that your back on the road quicker. Of course with a S/H gb you may be just buying more trouble....

[mark morris]

Ok, I have got the thing out, finally damn it was hard to get the bell housing past the fire wall, "I think it might have been the crappy non adjustable cradle I made for my trollie jack" think i will make a different one for putting it back in. "SteveL" do you have a manual for one of these with torque settings bearing adjustments ect.. or know where I might get one?

"Quote(SteveL)"

"Once you get the gb out, it's just a matter of dropping the bell-housing to get to the shift forks - no special tools required to replace those. If it were me I'd be looking to just replace the broken fork and be done with it, unless there's other obvious damage to gears, bearings, etc. - especially if the geabox was working OK up 'til the time the fork broke. 3/4 shift fork is around the $120 mark. A set of bearings is about $250, then there's gaskets, seals and sealants."

By just dropping the bell housing wont I have to re-set bearing preloads ect. um.. will i be able to inspect all gears ect. its just that i found a bit of furr on one of the magnets, would it be best to stand it on its end before removing the bell housing so counter shaft dose not come out of mesh with main shaft? sorry for all of the dumb questions, just dont know what to expect, ive only done twin and tripple counter shaft, non sincro boxes before!. (If you know anything to look out for or to mark before removing please tell me!) anyway im gonna attack it after work this arvo.

[SteveL]

....do you have a manual for one of these with torque settings bearing adjustments ect.. or know where I might get one?

I use the factory workshop manual....which I actually BOUGHT and it wasn't cheap. I believe you can (ahem) download it, but I don't know where from, but someone on here will.

By just dropping the bell housing wont I have to re-set bearing preloads ect. um.. will i be able to inspect all gears ect.  its just that i found a bit of furr on one of the magnets, would it be best to stand it on its end before removing the bell housing so counter shaft dose not come out of mesh with main shaft? sorry for all of the dumb questions, just dont know what to expect, ive only done twin and tripple counter shaft, non sincro boxes before!. (If you know anything to look out for or to mark before removing please tell me!) anyway im gonna attack it after work this arvo.

Strongly suggest you get hold of the WS manual before going any further, but, no, nothing will come adrift when you separate the bell housing - the shafts will still be held in place in the centre plate. It's sort of like a cassette gearbox arrangement. You will be able to immediately get to and replace the broken shift fork. Inspection of the gears will be possible and you should check gear end float (simple feeler gauge job), but inspection of the sychro clerances can only be done properly with the gears separated. However, if the gearbox was shifting normally up until the time the shift fork broke, I'd suggest it's likely the synchros are fine.

If you don't disturb the gears and shafts (ie just replace the fork) then there should be no change in any of the clearances, etc (which are set by controlled thickness snap rings). Again, if the gb was shifting fine and making no strange noises there should be no need to do anything further.

The only real question is over the bearings. A 'little bit of furr' sounds normal (there's always some fine debris from wear), so it seems likely they'd be fine....but that is a judgement you'll have to make for your self. If you decide to replace the bearings, you'll have to go to the trouble of checking all the clearances, etc, which is all covered in the WS manual.

[mark morris]

All right I have it striped, and see what you mean about cassette g/box. That sandwedge plate just supports everthing "Awsome" and jees that reverse/5 linkage set up looks over complicated, but can now see why I had trouble getting 5th.

It dosent look to bad inside, and yep the 3/4 shift fork is broken in two as suspected, all bearings are fine the small amount of debris on plug was from the 4th gear clutching teeth, as I spose the collar was pushed on crocked after the fork lost one side of it self, it has just slightly chiped the leading edges of the teeth but as they are so small (smallest clutching teeth in the whole box) and I have the thing apart, Im thinking of changing forth gear (just wondering if it can be removed with out striping the main shaft, and if it is one piece with the imput shaft). and if it is removed dose it have timed when re-installed

the second gear has a small chip on the out side edge of one tooth which I will just clean up with a burr bit.

on the 3/4 sinchro one of the clips is broken. its one of the three little clips like on all the sinchros (3 per sinchro that is) where they are visable if you have the collar centralised you can see two tags poking out uderneth the collar on each side, well just one of the clips only has 3tags insted 4(2 either side). It dosentg look like it affects operation in any way but would like to change it any way.

what I really need help with is part numbers and where I could get:

*w/s manual

*3/4 shift fork

*4th gear/imput shaft?

*little tin clip for sinchro

*input shaft seal housing gasket

the other gaskets and input seal I will make or get from C.B.C.

thanks for all the help!

regards, Mark

[ferni]

3.3k was for full box no transfer case, they had them in stock in Melbourne, had it the next day. Dont have a part number anymore, but ask for an R33 GTR gearbox and they can look it up, dont think the R34 6 speed fits

[SteveL]

*w/s manual

*3/4 shift fork

*4th gear/imput shaft?

*little tin clip for sinchro

*input shaft seal housing gasket

Mark, good news is that the shift fork and gasket aren't too expensive from Nissan, plus the seals can be obtained from CBC, etc. The bad news is BAD tho....if I understand your description of the 'tin clip' correctly, they are NLA from Nissan. You can't buy them for love nor money. The same is true for the input shaft. The reason for this is simply that Nissan made many 'running' production changes for GTR gearboxes over the years. These were improvements which totally changed the design of many components, inc 3/4 gears and associated parts (synchros, etc). The improvements are incompatible with the earlier parts.....and Nissan also discontinued those parts completely.

How do I know this ??. Well I've been down this path, and I've chased those clips all the way back to Nissan in Japan. The story is the same everywhere....NLA. Your welcome to confirm for yourself tho, and I can give you the PN's if you want.

What would I advise you to do ?? Depends on your finances.....if the gb you have was shifting fine before the fork broke, then chuck it back together with a new fork and put it back in the car. Take it easy on 3/4/3 gear changes and save for a new late model R33 gearbox (a new gearbox will have all the production improvements already incorporated). Alternatively of you have the $$ now you could invest in a new gb straight away.

[mark morris]

damn!, would it be cheeper for me to buy the updated 3rd gear, 4th gear, 3/4 sinchro assy., 3/4 fork, complete bearing kit and w/s manual. Probably as dear and more hassel yea. dont spose you know of some one with a second hand broken g/b or 4th gear that they want to sell? im not to woried about the clip, i dont think it will go any where.

also, in your manual dose it say you can remove the 4th gear with out dis-assembling the main shaft?

regards, mark

[SteveL]

damn!, would it be cheeper for me to buy the updated 3rd gear, 4th gear, 3/4 sinchro assy., 3/4 fork, complete bearing kit and w/s manual. Probably as dear and more hassel yea. dont spose you know of some one with a second hand broken g/b or 4th gear that they want to sell? im not to woried about the clip, i dont think it will go any where.

Are you sitting down ??......I was quoted $1900 for all the upgrade parts, and that's trade !! Bearings add $250, seals, gaskets, etc probably another $50. So you can see where this is heading.

As I said, it might be best to just spend the minimum on this gb and save for a new one.....esp if the gb was shifting normally up to the failure.

also, in your manual dose it say you can remove the 4th gear with out dis-assembling the main shaft?

I don't believe so. The mating gear on the countershaft is not separable and it interferes with the coupling ring mating teeth on the input shaft/gear.

[mark morris]

damn! you rite ya have to remove the counter shaft, I think im just gonna replace the fork (like one wise person told me from the start) and give it hell, if it breaks before I have enough money, ill just have to get a larger limit on the old credit card and buy an up dated box, im gonna order the fork on monday if anyone has a part no. handy I would be keen to get that off ya, just that every time I mention a r33gtr to a nissan dealer I just get a funny look and they have no Idea how to sorse part numbers for em!

regards, Mark.

[SteveL]

damn! you rite ya have to remove the counter shaft, I think im just gonna replace the fork (like one wise person told me from the start) and give it hell, if it breaks before I have enough money, ill just have to get a larger limit on the old credit card and buy an up dated box, im gonna order the fork on monday if anyone has a part no. handy I would be keen to get that off ya, just that every time I mention a r33gtr to a nissan dealer I just get a funny look and they have no Idea how to sorse part numbers for em!.

I can get you the PN on Tuesday (Monday is Labour day in Melbourne). Just make sure your happy with the condition of the rest of the 'box - you don't want to go to all the trouble of putting it back together to find that there's something not right.

If you have the VIN number for you car any dealer should be able to look up the PN in FAST regardless of the car being an 'import'. I have'nt had any problems with dealers over here in that regard.

[mark morris]

Thanks, ill let ya know how I go on Monday, when I order it.

[mark morris]

ordered parts today, none in the contry ex japan 14 days to a month, no complete gear boxes in aus. either.

[mark morris]

got my parts finally! and that little clip thingy, the part no is 32609-70L20, gonna slpap it together over the week end. thanks for all your help with this one guys, espesially "steveL" mate your a LEGEND!

[Guest two.06l]

got my parts finally! and that little clip thingy, the part no is 32609-70L20, gonna slpap it together over the week end. thanks for all your help with this one guys, espesially "steveL" mate your a LEGEND!

have a complete gearbox here with no 3rd gear...bit late for you though.