Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hi Guys;

I see a lot of posts regarding the inaccuracy of standard gauges. While not wishing to challenge the observations or experience of others, I'm just curious to know how this popular belief has been formed.

I've spoken to a number of instrument repairers who say that factory gauges are made to a tolerance of 2-3%, which is quite good, and that factory gauges are very reliable. However they also stated that senders are known for wearing out, particularly pressure senders.

I can understand some drivers may wish to have fine rather than coarse readings ie 20/40/60/80/100 rather than just 70 and 90 (and the standard gauges are certainly coarse) but that's more a function of precision than accuracy.

I'm about to have my oil/boost and water senders and gauges tested but it's a stuff around. And I suspect that the gauges will all come back within tolerance. Nevertheless if there is enough evidence to prove that the standard units are useless I won't hesitate to change them.

Just interested to hear what people have done re testing etc.

Cheers

Hi Guys;

I see a lot of posts regarding the inaccuracy of standard gauges. While not wishing to challenge the observations or experience of others, I'm just curious to know how this popular belief has been formed.

generally people come to this well known conclusion via the installation of aftermarket gauges.

with either

1) give a far more accurate reading

2) far more responsive reading

which for someone who wants to know vital information... its quite important.

EG, pressure gauge (oil)

Its takes nearly 10seconds to react sometimes in most cars.

Get an aftermarket one and see how fast it moves :rant:

justinfox on here had an issue with his 32GTR oil temp gauge...

i have a temperamental oil pressure gauge and warning light (happened at the track) so have replaced the 3 gauges in the centre with oil temp, oil press and water temp with warnings.

Hi R31;

I'm not sure how the installation of a'mket gauges could, of itself, lead anyone to the conclusion that they are more accurate. More responsive sure, but where's the proof they are more accurate? Has anyone tested the accuracy of standard gauges? Like GTR 32 said 2-3% is pretty good from an analogue gauge.

Re the oil pressure gauge taking 10 seconds to react, that's likely to be due to a dodgy sender I'd say.

Getting the gauge and sender checked is a lot cheaper than most a'mket gauges.

Ronin;

I can understand why a temperamental gauge would drive you nuts for sure, but in my case I'm wondering, like GTR 32, why not just fix the standard gauge as it's a cheap process.

Regards

Hi R31;

I'm not sure how the installation of a'mket gauges could, of itself, lead anyone to the conclusion that they are more accurate. More responsive sure, but where's the proof they are more accurate? Has anyone tested the accuracy of standard gauges? Like GTR 32 said 2-3% is pretty good from an analogue gauge.

Over time though its not 2-3% anymore.

Responsive gauges are a good thing to have.

Re the oil pressure gauge taking 10 seconds to react, that's likely to be due to a dodgy sender I'd say.

And no, its not the sender unit. They are all slow, in many models of skyline. I dont think ive seen on fast one...

Maybe its the location of the sensor possibly. Slow is slow though.

Getting the gauge and sender checked is a lot cheaper than most a'mket gauges.  

i count time as $$$, when i can have a boost gauge lines in within a few mins, then just gotta mount it.

Its not that hard a choice for me personally, especially when there are autobhan sales and all that sorta thing where stock is 20-30% cheaper at least.

Not that i have a GTR, but where the stock gauges are... isnt the "best" spot. thats another reason i guess

GTR 32 - I installed aftermarket gauges whilst still retaining the oem ones, here's some observations I've made:

Std water temp gauge => aftermarket gauge can move 30 degrees (in 2 degree increments) without the oem one moving at all (only time my stock one went to hot was "after" I split a radiator hose - this is also common with Subarus).

Std oil pressure gauge => accurate up to about 4.5 bar (agrees with aftermarket one) but won't read any higher pressure, unlike the aftermarket one.

Oil temp gauge => no oem fitted, so can't comment.

My aftermarket gauges are electric Omori ones & have very quick response times (particularly oil pressure where you get rapid changes).

  • 16 years later...

Time to resurrect this thread! 

I was asking myself this very question. My beef with aftermarket gauges is primarily how they look. Where possible, I've done my best to keep my Skyline looking stock.

That being said, I do wish the gauges (especially the oil pressure gauge) were a little bit more trustworthy. I've added a new sender of course, but there is always that nagging doubt in my mind.

So, I thought of an interesting solution! Why not add an audible alarm that buzzes super loud if you loose oil pressure? Here is a product I found that might fit the bill. Apparently, this is a common thing in marine applications. Not sure if it would be that great for a track car with an open exhaust and a brain bucket on the drivers head, but then again, if my car was a track car, I wouldn't be worrying about how the gauges look. 

Here's a link to the buzzer kit:

https://www.myinboardmarine.com/products/alarm-for-engine-with-audible-warning-kit?variant=31226510901353&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic

Why not have a good ECU that cuts RPM, power, boost, etc. when a certain parameters are breached?

A gauge/audible alert won't save your motor, cutting RPM, boost, power, etc. will :)

I mean, yeah, that too! I'm about to embark upon a major upgrade for my GTR which will include a Haltech standalone, so it will have that going for it as well. But I think I very well may add this buzzer as a way to let me know what's going on!

This buzzer would be a very good option for someone who is not ready (or not able) to plunk down the money for good engine management!

 

If you REALLY want the ultimate solution of OEM looking with top quality hardware, save your pennies for a Motec C1212 with Display Creator. Pinnacle of performance. Program it to look exactly like the OEM gauge cluster. 

 

Only going to set you back ~$8000 + mounting/wiring/programming. But baller is baller!

  • Like 2

I suspect the actual issue in many cases is not the sensor (range notwithstanding) but the actual gauge circuitry itself seems to have a significant delay. That was the case with the MR2 Turbos, if you changed out the gauge driver for something that sampled quickly it was possible to have response on par with aftermarket gauges. I suspect the same is true of the gauges in these cars.

The R34 has a much faster reacting oil pressure display. Other Skyline owners hated me when I was like "what, the OEM oil pressure works perfectly?"

When I re-shelled my car, I noticed my oil pressure display was slow. I re-bought the OEM nissan sensor and it was fast again. Me thinks in this case it was the sender being updated in some revision, at least in this one, specific case!

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

I suspect the actual issue in many cases is not the sensor (range notwithstanding) but the actual gauge circuitry itself seems to have a significant delay.

The stock analogue gauges on most cars have built-in damping and the GTR is no different.    The stock gauges are designed to provide an 'at a glance' indication of the health of the engine, not absolute accuracy to a high degree.    If you want 'accuracy' get a digital readout - maybe a HUD - with calibrated sensors.     

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Thanks, I removed the fuse and the relay from the car and made my own circuit with them to test them with a test bulb.  I will look for the wiring diagram and go from there.
    • Jdm DC2R is also nice for a FF car compared to the regular hatches of the time.
    • Now that the break-in period for both clutch and transmission is nearly over I'd like to give some tips before I forget about everything that happened, also for anyone searching up how to do this job in the future: You will need at least 6 ton jack stands at full extension. I would go as far as to say maybe consider 12 ton jack stands because the height of the transmission + the Harbor Freight hydraulic platform-style transmission jack was enough that it was an absolute PITA getting the transmission out from under the car and back in. The top edge of the bellhousing wants to contact the subframe and oil pan and if you're doing this on the floor forget about trying to lift this transmission off the ground and onto a transmission jack from under the car. Also do not try to use a scissor jack transmission lift. You have to rotate the damn thing in-place on the transmission jack which is hard enough with an adjustable platform and a transmission cradle that will mostly keep the transmission from rolling off the jack but on a scissor lift with a tiny non-adjustable platform? Forget it. Use penetrating oil on the driveshaft bolts. I highly recommend getting a thin 6 point combination (box end + open end) wrench for both the rear driveshaft and front driveshaft and a wrench extension. These bolts are on tight with very little space to work with and those two things together made a massive difference. Even a high torque impact wrench is just the wrong tool for the job here and didn't do what I needed it to do. If your starter bolts aren't seized in place for whatever reason you can in fact snake in a 3/8 inch ratchet + 6 point standard chrome socket up in there and "just" remove the bolts for the starter. Or at least I could. It is entirely by feel, you can barely fit it in, you can barely turn the stupid ratchet, but it is possible. Pull the front pipe/downpipe before you attempt to remove the transmission. In theory you don't have to, in practice just do it.  When pulling the transmission on the way out you don't have to undo all the bolts holding the rear driveshaft to the chassis like the center support bearing and the rear tunnel reinforcement bar but putting the transmission back in I highly recommend doing this because it will let you raise the transmission without constantly dealing with the driveshaft interfering in one way or another. I undid the bottom of the engine mount but I honestly don't know that it helped anything. If you do this make sure you put a towel on the back of the valve cover to keep the engine from smashing all the pipes on the firewall. Once the transmission has been pulled back far enough to clear the dowels you need to twist it in place clockwise if you're sitting behind the transmission. This will rotate the starter down towards the ground. The starter bump seems like it might clear if you twist the transmission the other way but it definitely won't. I have scraped the shit out of my transmission tunnel trying so learn from my mistake. You will need a center punch and an appropriate size drill bit and screw to pull the rear main seal. Then use vice grips and preferably a slide hammer attachment for those vice grips to yank the seal out. Do not let the drill or screw contact any part of the crank and clean the engine carefully after removing the seal to avoid getting metal fragments into the engine. I used a Slide Hammer and Bearing Puller Set, 5 Piece from Harbor Freight to pull the old pilot bearing. The "wet paper towel" trick sucked and just got dirty clutch water everywhere. Buy the tool or borrow it from a friend and save yourself the pain. It comes right out. Mine was very worn compared to the new one and it was starting to show cracks. Soak it in engine oil for a day in case yours has lost all of the oil to the plastic bag it comes in. You may be tempted to get the Nismo aftermarket pilot bearing but local mechanics have told me that they fail prematurely and if they do fail they do far more damage than a failed OEM pilot bushing. I mentioned this before but the Super Coppermix Twin clutch friction disks are in fact directional. The subtle coning of the fingers in both cases should be facing towards the center of the hub. So the coning on the rearmost disk closest to the pressure plate should go towards the engine, and the one closest to the flywheel should be flipped the other way. Otherwise when you torque down the pressure plate it will be warped and if you attempt to drive it like this it will make a very nasty grinding noise. Also, there is in fact an orientation to the washers for the pressure plate if you don't want to damage the anodizing. Rounded side of the washer faces the pressure plate. The flat side faces the bolt head. Pulling the transmission from the transfer case you need to be extremely careful with the shift cover plate. This part is discontinued. Try your best to avoid damaging the mating surfaces or breaking the pry points. I used a dead blow rubber hammer after removing the bolts to smack it sideways to slide it off the RTV the previous mechanic applied. I recommend using gasket dressing on the OEM paper gasket to try and keep the ATF from leaking out of that surface which seems to be a perpetual problem. Undoing the shifter rod end is an absolute PITA. Get a set of roll pin punches. Those are mandatory for this. Also I strongly, strongly recommend getting a palm nailer that will fit your roll pin punch. Also, put a clean (emphasis on clean) towel wrapped around the back end of the roll pin to keep it from shooting into the transfer case so you can spend a good hour or two with a magnet on a stick getting it out. Do not damage the shifter rod end either because those are discontinued as well. Do not use aftermarket flywheel bolts. Or if you do, make sure they are exactly the same dimensions as OEM before you go to install them. I have seen people mention that they got the wrong bolts and it meant having to do the job again. High torque impact wrench makes removal easy. I used some combination of a pry bar and flathead screwdriver to keep the flywheel from turning but consider just buying a proper flywheel lock instead. Just buy the OS Giken clutch alignment tool from RHDJapan. I hated the plastic alignment tool and you will never be confident this thing will work as intended. Don't forget to install the Nismo provided clutch fork boot. Otherwise it will make unearthly noises when you press the clutch pedal as it says on the little installation sheet in Japanese. Also, on both initial disassembly and assembly you must follow torque sequence for the pressure plate bolts. For some reason the Nismo directions tell you to put in the smaller 3 bolts last. I would not do this. Fully insert and thread those bolts to the end first, then tighten the other larger pressure plate bolts according to torque sequence. Then at the end you can also torque these 3 smaller bolts. Doing it the other way can cause these bolts to bind and the whole thing won't fit as it should. Hope this helps someone out there.
×
×
  • Create New...