RB25/30 in R32

[mr_rbman]

hey guys after reading a bit of Cubes's write up and some of the 94 pages on this topic I have decided that i definitiely want to do this conversion before i waste too much money on the RB20. Just got a couple of questions that i couldn't seem to find the answers for.

1.) Whats involved with putting this combo into the 32 like changing the engine mounts/sump etc? and how hard that is to do cause obviously it wont be as easy as putting it into an R31/VL/R33!

2.) What is the full approximate costs of doing this from start to finish? With using these items:

-I intend on using the S2 RB30 N/A bottom end with N/A Pistons, just getting that stuff reconditioned etc.

-The RB25 DE head. (non VVT) (in good condition)

-keeping my gearbox til it dies (which i'm guessing won't be long)

-Hi-Flow RB25 Turbo

-RB25 ECU and loom

(i plan to sell my RB20 so would prefer not to use things off that motor!)

So as you can see i don't intend on going too crazy especially with having the light R32 for it to go into, i just plan to build it up slowly on an engine stand. I'd be more than happy with 250 RWKW's cause i know the torque will be so awesome!

Just after an RB25/30 combo on a reasonable budget!

so if you think i'm going about something the wrong way or want to put me in a better direction please do so! I'm especially looking for comments from cubes and sydneykid on this discussion and anyone else who have done this especially in an R32!

cheers in advance!!!

[Bl4cK32]

1. redrilling and welding of engine mounts, use rb20det sump. Not hard, just need to look things through.

2. RB30e short motor - $100 ish, and for a freshen up say $900ish. Rb25de head $750ish, dont know cost of rb25 turbo, ecu, loom.

Dont forget hidden costs, ie upgraded fuel system. Apparently the std injectors max out in 3rd and 4th when hitting boost.....being rb25 injectors = more cost + fuel pump + afm + all fluids + gasket kit.

U need the rb20det oil pump (or buy a newbie - $500ish)

rb20det harmonic balancer,

rb20det engine number (so you need to keep the old block)

rb20 cam covers / coil pack cover (for that std look)

[TTT]

don't try to sell the motor until you've got all the bits you need from it.

-Top half of plenum

-air box

-intake pipe

-injectors

-knock sensors

-spark plugs

-coil packs

-sump

-oil pump

-harmonic balancer

-cam covers and coil pack cover (as mentioned for the stock look)

-afm

-turbo

-exhaust manifold

-intercooler pipework

-radiator fan

put all of those to the RB25de head and RB30E bottom end.

Use the stock ECU, clamp wastegate open, and run the car in like this.

all of this in parts will cost you

$100 - rb30

$750 - rb25de head

$?? - new idler pulley

$?? - new timing belt

$?? - refresh bottom end

all of this will get the car running and allow you to run the engine in properly while you save some money for other goodies like

-500hp turbo

-Power FC

-Z32 or Q45 afm

-GTR injectors and ignitor

one of the guys did the exact thing I said above and I think he was making 130rwkw with the wastegate flap held open (still made 6psi) during run in time but he said the torque was unbelievable.

What I have written above is pretty much my plan.

it's just that mine will go in a r32 sedan and it will be done so in 2006.

what's left of your RB20 can then be sold to the guys in the "rb20 with over 260kw" thread as I'm sure they will need a few spares..

*cough* ROY *cough*

hahahahaha

by the way I'm still waiting for that call to come clean out your garage Roy...

[mr_rbman]

well i was hoping to keep the RB20 whole so it would be easier to sell and try to just buy everything else!

[sky30]

If you were to sell the RB20 complete, then buy every thing you need, you would probably be up for more cash than you get for a RB20. id keep it, maybee sell the head when your done.

I Did the conversion into a R32 fairly cheap buy using a complete stock $100 n/a bottom(not rebuilt) and just buying a RB25 n/a Head$700 . I used stock head gasket, stock injectors with a $200 regulator, and a $300 hi-flow RB20 turbo(which i already had) It made 240 RWKW at around 16-17psi, with massive torque, boost came on hard at 2000rpm. A great upgade over the RB20 for alittle under $1500.

The only real modification needed to fit the engine in the R32 was a Slight lowerng of the engine mounts (only 20 minutes work) The rest of the converion is pretty much bolt up, bolt in.

Ive since upgraded the turbo to a GT35/40 on the stock manifold, now making 270 RWKW at 17psi with lots more boost to come.

[mr_rbman]

If you were to sell the RB20 complete, then buy every thing you need, you would probably be up for more cash than you get for a RB20. id keep it, maybee sell the head when your done.  

 

I Did the conversion into a R32 fairly cheap buy using a complete stock $100  n/a bottom(not rebuilt) and just buying a RB25 n/a Head$700 . I used stock head gasket, stock injectors with a $200 regulator, and a $300 hi-flow RB20 turbo(which i already had)  It made 240 RWKW at around 16-17psi, with massive torque, boost came on hard at 2000rpm. A great upgade over the RB20 for alittle under $1500.  

 

The only real modification needed to fit the engine in the R32 was a Slight lowerng of the engine mounts (only 20 minutes work) The rest of the converion is pretty much bolt up, bolt in.

 

Ive since upgraded the turbo to a GT35/40 on the stock manifold, now making 270 RWKW at 17psi with lots more boost to come.

thats awesome, this is the stuff i want to hear! After reading a bit more of the 94 pages in this forum on this topic i have decided to keep the RB20 and use the bits off that, as you said it will work out cheaper that way in the long run. Its also good to see another person in Adelaide has done this. I believe that Cubes (Joel) gets his car tuned by boostworx! Do you also use them or if not who do u use?

Hope to hear more from you and i hope u don't mind me asking you more questions on this in the future!

[sky30]

Shaun at boost Worx is a top bloke, ive had my car tunned there once. I do alot of the tunning myself on my mates dyno. I also did all the mechanical work myself, so you save lots there aswell.

I dont mind helping out, as i know myself how hard it is to get info on the conversion, when i did it a couple of years ago there wasnt much info around at all, now theres a fair bit of talk about the RB30 DET.

[predator]

Ive since upgraded the turbo to a GT35/40 on the stock manifold, now making 270 RWKW at 17psi with lots more boost to come.

On stock internals? not even rebuilt? they're pretty damn impressive figures.

I would have thought something around 200rwkw would be fine (an RB30E turboed will do similar), but over that I thought it might be a time bomb. But considering you can't really "lose" much blowing a stock n/a bottom end, then you may as well!

[Sydneykid]

I would have thought something around 200rwkw would be fine (an RB30E turboed will do similar), but over that I thought it might be a time bomb.

Stock RB30E bottom end freshend up (standard Commondoor parts) with RB25DE top end, built 5 years ago, made 475 bhp on the engine dyno at 1.1 bar, still going strong. The secret is tuning and regularly servicing. Most of all, don't try for just a little more boost, or a few more rpm, or 20 more hp, did I mention tuning?

[mr_rbman]

OK, here's my shopping list. Please take into account that I will be using as much stuff as I can off my RB20 and this will be going into an R32. Also take into account that this is being done on a budget so will mainly only be doing things that have to be done (for now) without taking shortcuts.

1. Series 2 Rb30e bottom end (honing and O-Ringing etc.)

Rb30e pistons (ceramic coated)

Rb30e Crank (find one in good condition so hopefully will only need to be linished)

Rb30e rods

2. Rb25de twin cam head (non VVT)

3. Rb25 turbo computer, sensors, coils, loom etc. With Apexi Power FC (easier and cheaper to get hold of Rb25 Power FC)

4. Timing/Cam belt - Dayco, Part number = 94407

5. Extra Pulley? -

6. Rb20 Gearbox, upgrade to Rb25 when funds become available

7. Turbo - will use stanard Rb20 and while running in motor will save for a Garret BB Gt30/35 with a .81 A/R housing.

8. 'Extreme' Heavy duty clutch (still want driveability)

9. Manifolds/Plenum/Exhaust Manifold - all Rb20/Rb25 (not sure which ones can and can't use.

10. rb20/30 Sump

11. RX7 13b/12a injectors (also a sard/malpassi fuel regulator)

12. Head Gasket - new Rb30e???

13. oil/water pump - Rb20

14. Bearings? (Which ones will need replacing?) use new genuine Nissan?

15. Q45 (90mm) AFM

Please fell free to let me know if i've missed anything or put down something which i don't need or should be using another brand etc?

Once again thanks to everyone so far especially Cubes (joel) as i have used his D.I.Y guide to get a lot of these things from!

[Sydneykid]

OK, here's my shopping list. Please take into account that I will be using as much stuff as I can off my RB20 and this will be going into an R32. Also take into account that this is being done on a budget so will mainly only be doing things that have to be done  (for now) without taking shortcuts.

1. Series 2 Rb30e bottom end (honing and O-Ringing etc.)

   Rb30e pistons (ceramic coated)

   Rb30e Crank (find one in good condition so hopefully will only need to be linished)

   Rb30e rods

2. Rb25de twin cam head (non VVT)

3. Rb25 turbo computer, sensors, coils, loom etc. With Apexi Power FC (easier and cheaper to get hold of Rb25 Power FC)

4. Timing/Cam belt - Dayco, Part number = 94407

5. Extra Pulley? -  

6. Rb20 Gearbox, upgrade to Rb25 when funds become available

7. Turbo - will use stanard Rb20 and while running in motor will save for a Garret BB Gt30/35 with a .81 A/R housing.

8. 'Extreme' Heavy duty clutch (still want driveability)

9. Manifolds/Plenum/Exhaust Manifold - all Rb20/Rb25 (not sure which ones can and can't use.

10. rb20/30 Sump

11. RX7 13b/12a injectors (also a sard/malpassi fuel regulator)

12. Head Gasket - new Rb30e???

13. oil/water pump - Rb20

14. Bearings? (Which ones will need replacing?) use new genuine Nissan?

15. Q45 (90mm) AFM

Please fell free to let me know if i've missed anything or put down something which i don't need or should be using another brand etc?

Once again thanks to everyone so far especially Cubes (joel) as i have used his D.I.Y guide to get a lot of these things from!

Some suggestions follow;

#2. Finding an R32 RB25DE may not be that easy, the R33 RB25DE's have VVT.

#3. You will need an R33 GTST wiring harness to go with the R33 GTST Power FC.

Back to #2, since you are using the R33 GTST Powewr FC and the R33 GTST wiring harness you can just as easily run the VVT. Especially if you can't find an R32 RB25DE cylinder head.

#7. Why bother, stick the right turbo on, keep the boost down. Fill up with non synthetic oil (Castrol GTX works well), run engine for 20 minutes (not at idle), then change the oil filter. Check A/F ratios, not necessarily on the dyno. Drive the car to Bathurst and back to run the new engine in. Nice variable conditions, long hills and after 500 k's its as run in as it's gunna get. That's around 1.3 million crankshaft revolutions. Drain oil, change oil filter, fill up with the good oil (Castrol Synthetic Formula R 0W60 in my case), then tune it on the dyno.

#12. RB30 Headgasket is OK.

#13 A new RB30 water pump is a good investment.

#14 Replace all bearings, seals, welsh plugs and gaskets.

Hope that is of some help:cheers:

[Bl4cK32]

I would also recommend if this is on a budget, dont forget the hidden estras with the build, which can quickly blowout costs....from your list above lets say :

1. rebuilt rb30e bottom end rebuilt with std pistons etc - $1000 (including purchase)

2. rb25de head $750

3. An Rb20det AP Power FC can be gotton for cheap second hand...Cubes got his with HC for $1100 ish....wiring up a rb25 loom adds say $600 on the price of the purchase of the loom + rb25det computer etc.....

4. timing belt - $30

5. extra pulley (tensioner rb30e bearing) - $80

6. Rb20det gearbox - u got one...see how long it lasts...ud be suprised

7.rb20 turbo...$0 (Garrett GT35r will cost $1850 odd + manifold + ext. wastegate)

8. Extreme clutch - i had one with the rb20, now the os twin i got i run in mine feels better on the street than the extreme....

9. Rb25de lower half of inlet, rb20det upper half (with throttle body), rb20 exhaust manifold.

10. rb20det sump

11. rx7 injectors (dont need a regulator if you upgrade the fuel pump instead....have you yet?) say....$500 + $350 for pump

12. Head gasket - cheaper to buy a VRS kit for the rb25de head - $cant remember...lol...

13. oil pump - rb20det, water pump - rb30e ($80)

14. Bearings - take your pick ....ACL, King, etc......dunno cost

15. Q45 afm - $300

Thats roughly just over $4000 (not including everything above)

If you are not doing the work yourself, add installation labour, tuning....you will be close to $10,000 before you "finish" (read bigger turbo) with it.....

Any hassles come up (mine for instance wouldnt idle straight away, needed a bigger fuel pump + injectors, and needed a tune)

It can be a budget motor, but only if you do most of the work yourself. Dont let me put you off, but think seriously of doing this before spending.....

[sky30]

With my stock RB20 injectors and a rising rate reg, i made 240rwkw, at only about 70% duty cycle. You could hold off on the RX7 injectors for a while and save cash there.

The biggest cost saver id say is using the RB30E bottom end in total stock form (not Rebuilt), and just bolt the head straight on. Theese motors are incredible, every stock motor i have seen pulled down still has all the hone marks clearly visable, even with 250, 000+ kms on the clock. The motor i used in my conversion had 287,000kms on the car i got it out of, has lasted me 18+ months with over 3 time stock power.

If theres nothing wrong with a motor, why waste money rebuilding it to the same stock specs???

[TTT]

wait wait wait..

You used rb20det 270cc injectors, in an RB30det conversion with a regulator and made 240rwkw on only 70% duty cycle?

I find that REAAAAALLLYYYY hard to believe.

how much extra rail pressure were you/are you using?

I'm not calling you a liar, I am just wondering if maybe you are mistaken and that they are NOT rb20 injectors.. or perhaps they were hi flowed in japan..

[Wazz]

i'll grab the rb20 head if you want to sell it.. would like to chop it up and work out best way to port a rb20 head

[Abo Bob]

What are you guys calling redline?

Do you go there often?

Has anyone done this with a NEO?

[Guest Sinon]

I'm doing the same conversion into my 32. I've got the bottom end all ready to go. The biggest problem Ive had so far is finding a rb25 n/a head without (vvt) I try'd out the 33 head but their is way to much work in modifying the water/oil gailrys on the head.(oil activates the vvt set up). Not to mention the wireing involved. Still trying to figger it out.

1. Anyone know where I can get a 32 rb25 from?

2.The Dayco Timing belt is $90 from autobarn.

I can get them for $60 if anyone's interested.

( 0403541636 )

[Bl4cK32]

I rarely rev mine over 5000 rpm....so thats where i call redline Most times i "rev it out" is say 4500 - 5000

[sky30]

GTST:-

Yes, stock 270cc injectors with a regulator running 42 psi at idle ( i think around 75-80psi at full boost). The car also had a bosch pump fitted, which is also going to help.

What makes that so hard to beleive, i also had a vl with the stock 270cc injectors and a rising rate reg running similar power. The rising rate regulator make a big difference, before fitted my car ran lean at 200 rwkw, with the reg fitted 240rwkw with more to go.

I know of a garage thats seen 260kw at the wheels with the stock rb20 injectors, but that is Maxed out. A lot of people seem to underestimate what stock injectors can flow when used with a regulator, you can save alot of money by keeping them till you must upgrde.

[mr_rbman]

Some suggestions follow;

#2. Finding an R32 RB25DE may not be that easy, the R33 RB25DE's have VVT.

#3. You will need an R33 GTST wiring harness to go with the R33 GTST Power FC.

Back to #2, since you are using the R33 GTST Powewr FC and the R33 GTST wiring harness you can just as easily run the VVT.  Especially if you can't find an R32 RB25DE cylinder head.  

#7. Why bother, stick the right turbo on, keep the boost down.  Fill up with non synthetic oil (Castrol GTX works well), run engine for 20 minutes (not at idle), then change the oil filter.  Check A/F ratios, not necessarily on the dyno.  Drive the car to Bathurst and back to run the new engine in.  Nice variable conditions, long hills and after 500 k's its as run in as it's gunna get.  That's around 1.3 million crankshaft revolutions.   Drain oil, change oil filter, fill up with the good oil (Castrol Synthetic Formula R 0W60 in my case), then tune it on the dyno.

#12. RB30 Headgasket is OK.

#13 A new RB30 water pump is a good investment.

#14 Replace all bearings, seals, welsh plugs and gaskets.

Hope that is of some help:cheers:

very helpful, as always sydneykid, one more question for now, putting this in an R32 u need to drop the motor round 15mm, just wondering doesn't this cause the gearbox to no longer line up? and exhaust etc?