Back to the drawing board!

[Hicks]

Ha ha ha.

Well it makes quite a difference what brand it is. I bought one from cypher that made quite a noticable change in performance.

But I used wynns at the drags and felt f#ck all.

[puckish]

Slightly off the topic has anyone tried the WA made octane booster. Quiet a few mags reckon it's the ducks guts so to speak.

I can just see me at the local BP in Armadale trying to buy a 44 gallon drum of Toulene... maybe i should send my blackfella neighbour down.. he'll do anything for a good laugh..

[macka]

Originally posted by adam 32

something macka gave me in a coke bottle

hahah I laughed for 5 mins.....

Its Nulon +7

Good shit!

Adam your running no Timing.

U wanted a safe engine not one that goes fast! So thats how they tuned it.

Getting the picture yet?

[rev210]

The 'in the bottle' octane boosters do very little to bring up octane (they are usually little tiny bottles). By comparison a high octane additive like toluene does make a noticable difference at less cost.

[adam 32]

yeh ive got retarded timing because i need to give my wallet time to recover from the recent ventures.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Rev210,

I agree toluene is one of the best octance boosters, especially for the price, about $48 for 20L, enought to treat 100L of fuel. In a comparison that I saw the Nulon rated higher than the toluene though, +2.7RON as opposed to +2.5RON. Many of the expensive octane boosters did f#@k all, +0.7RON, so it is worth finding one that works. The Nulon treats 60L and cost around $25, so it's not bad bang for your buck, plus less hassel in getting it than the toluene.

If anyone is interested I am planning on getting some VP Motorsport fuel, I have a friend who bought 400L of the $7.50/L stuff, but because of the bulk buy he only paid $5.50 a litre, not cheap I will admit but it makes a big difference to the way you can tune your car, much more timing!

Adam 32,

Macka probably pissed in the Coke bottle, thats why it did f#@k all.

See'ya:burnout:

[rev210]

Originally posted by GTS-t VSPEC

Rev210,

I agree toluene is one of the best octance boosters, especially for the price, about $48 for 20L, enought to treat 100L of fuel. In a comparison that I saw the Nulon rated higher than the toluene though, +2.7RON as opposed to +2.5RON. Many of the expensive octane boosters did f#@k all, +0.7RON, so it is worth finding one that works. The Nulon treats 60L and cost around $25, so it's not bad bang for your buck, plus less hassel in getting it than the toluene.

Nulon's octane booster is quite ordinary. Look at the volume for price. This is where toluene is a little different to 'bottle' octane boosters, it is more of a 'fuel base'. Nulon and products like it are not added in quantities upto 20+% nor can they be without serious harmful effects to the engine and an actual drop in performance.

In the reviews I've seen comparing different octane boosters ,including nulon's, wynns race formula was a suprise performer. Nulon in the same review scored quite average. This was a horsepower based test.

Nulon incidentally will never raise the octane level above 100 RON with BP ultimate 98 (infact most cannot) with 1L in 60L (<2%). Reviews that contend that it does are suspect (read advertising money) as this requires the additive to contain not less than 396 RON. Don't even get me started on the MON. Ask most serious racers what they think of this stuff compared to 'REAL' 101 racing fuel. Granted the formula in a these additves reduces volitility but, not through adding an octane base.

Toluene adding is just like the racing fuel, only better (no EPA restrictions apply to producing your fuel).

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Rev210,

In the review that I have seen it showed that Nulon was the top performer, just better than Toluene, that is not to say that the reviews you have are incorrect, but measuring based on horsepower is not very accurate.

Everyone will find an octane booster that they like and that gives them a performance edge, doesn't make them right but it is their decision. Volume for price, at ~$20 for 500ml it treats 60 litres, compared to 20L of Tuluene (~$48) treating 100L. Just becuase it's in a smaller bottle doesn't make it less effective.

I am considering using VP Motorsport fuel, but at $5.50/L it makes it kind of restrictive. I will try different octane boosters including toluene and come to my own decision, not sure if I'm just wasting my money or not but if it gives me an edge then I'll try it.

See'ya:burnout:

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Rev210,

I've just re-read the Octance Booster Review article. It was performed on a knock engine($200,000), which is the only true way to calculate RON. It showed Nulon and Toluene up top. This does not mean that they will provide any horsepower benefits by themselves. The higher octane rating will allow for more advancement, therefore allowing for more power.

Some octance boosters improve the octance rating by stuff-all, but contain nitromethane, which will add horsepower.

See'ya :burnout:

[rev210]

Originally posted by GTS-t VSPEC

Rev210,

I've just re-read the Octance Booster Review article. It was performed on a knock engine($200,000), which is the only true way to calculate RON. It showed Nulon and Toluene up top. This does not mean that they will provide any horsepower benefits by themselves. The higher octane rating will allow for more advancement, therefore allowing for more power.

Some octance boosters improve the octance rating by stuff-all, but contain nitromethane, which will add horsepower.

See'ya :burnout:

Knock engines are not how RON is calculated at the places the stuff is made, more likely to be a HPLC or something. You might notice on a 'knock engine' diesel rates higher also, it requires great cylinder pressures to actually combust.

Like I said before RON ought to equate to the 'octane' composition and poential energy as it suggests not its volitility as the 'knock motor' measures, though this can relate to the reduced volitility additional octane produces.

I've used the nulon stuff, wynns and a few others. The difference is nothing to write home about, any gain is usually through modest timing advance. 500ml in 60L ? This would mean the RON of nulon is over 792 RON ! Who are we kidding?

Toluene you WILL notice.

500ml of SFA Vs a few litres of real power.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Rev210,

I work at Murdoch University teaching Engineering, we have an Engineering Chemistry faculty here so I spoke to them about it. The have performed work for a number of the big petroleum companies, i.e.Mobil and BP, and although you can measure the number of grams of octane in the fuel on a HPLC, this does not give you its RON. All the companies have there own knock engines on which they perform this test.

I think we need to distinguish between improving the RON and improving the horsepower. The higher the RON the less likely the car is to ping at high boost, and therefore allowing for more timing and potentially this can give you more power. Whereas other boosters and toluene can give you both improved RON and improved horsepower, from the nitromethane, just by adding it to your fuel.

I would agree that in general you will feel f#@k-all difference between having octane booster or not, but it will protect your engine from pinging. It is only through the advancement of your timing that you will get any improvement.

See'ya:burnout:

[Dr_Drift]

GTS-t VSpec - So you mean that toluene contains nitro-methane? And the differenc in power gains between them all with no adjustments is actually the amount of nitro not the RON??

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Dr_Drift,

Yeah that's right, octane by itself does stuff-all in terms of horsepower, hence why most people get jacked off with it, only useful if you can't get PULP and you need to bring the octane up. Some of the boosters contain nitromethane which produces more energy when burnt, therfore a bit more horsepower.

If you use octane booster on PULP for daily driving then I think your wasting your money, but if racing then it will provide an extra level of protection.

See'ya:burnout:

[Dr_Drift]

Has anyone tested "NF Formula"??

I used to put that in every tank of my 180 cause we'd advanced the timing with a fueltronics chip in it.... Used to run like shit without it... I'm assuming it was sensing detonation and resorting back to the low octane map. (You did all know that all nissans run dual maps and kick down to the 'safety' map when detonation is detected??)

Ran a 13.5 at kwinana at 106mph before I moved to melbourne... It was on a 30+ degree evening and I had NF Formula Pro Strength and 6 lt of toluene to help..... I guess it did....

Not bad for stock turb and cooler hey??

Doc.

PS: NF Formula was the ONLY additive that made it run sweet... EVERYTHING ELSE was shit

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Dr_Drift,

I've heard that the NF stuff is good too, and running a 13.6 is pretty impressive. So I take it the knock sensors detects the detonation and therefore runs a different map with reduced timing?

See'ya:burnout:

[rev210]

Originally posted by GTS-t VSPEC

Rev210,

I work at Murdoch University teaching Engineering, we have an Engineering Chemistry faculty here so I spoke to them about it. The have performed work for a number of the big petroleum companies, i.e.Mobil and BP, and although you can measure the number of grams of octane in the fuel on a HPLC, this does not give you its RON. All the companies have there own knock engines on which they perform this test.

Interesting stuff!

All the same I wonder how the knock motor calculates RON/MON, it can't be just to do with pre-ignition can it? I mean that would make diesel super octane rated, when it isn't?

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Rev210,

Apparently this is how they do it, don't know about the diesel, it tends to run at much higher compression's and the fuel is run like a controlled detonation. I'm not sure whether you can compare diesel and petrol, as although they are both petroleum derivatives that does not suggest that they have the same detonation characteristics. Therefore although diesel does not contain large amount of octane it is relatively immune from the affects of detonation.

I have this excerpt from a magazine, which I know you think are propaganda for advertiser's and quite often your right, but here it is.

As the name suggest, a knock engine is designed to test the detonation or anti-knock rating of fuels and fuel additives. It's a slow revving engine capable of running most fossil fuels through an adjustable compression ratio. As the comp ratio increases, it accurately measures the intensity of the knock and determines the fules octane rating

Hope that clears up any questions.

See'ya

:burnout:

[rev210]

Originally posted by GTS-t VSPEC

Rev210,

Apparently this is how they do it, don't know about the diesel, it tends to run at much higher compression's and the fuel is run like a controlled detonation. I'm not sure whether you can compare diesel and petrol, as although they are both petroleum derivatives that does not suggest that they have the same detonation characteristics. Therefore although diesel does not contain large amount of octane it is relatively immune from the affects of detonation.  

The same engines test diesel and other fuels too don't they? I'm puzzled still.

Remember the formula 1 example: 104 RON fuel was the restriction so they added 7% n-heptane ( a relatively inert fuel ). 104 RON (basically all toluene normally rated 122RON/114MON).

Now if you can find a race fuel or additive with only 104 RON that can handle running an engine at 75psi of boost (5 Bar) your doing better than all the formula 1 teams ever could. BTW they were only restricted to 104RON not forced to use toluene.

Maybe its the MON thats more important is that measured the same way?

[GTS-t VSPEC]

rev210,

I must admit I'm on the limit or past the limit of my knowledge, so its guessing from here on out.

Don't know it they test diesel's the same way, I didn't think they had an octane rating? The problem of detonation with diesel is not as big an issue as the design of the engines are such that they can cope with it, from what I've read.

I know that VP Motorsport 103 fuel has an octane rating of 107, and therefore stupidly high boost could be run in theory. The Formula 1 guys are automotive gods, and us mere mortals will never understand how they do what they do.

Sorry that I've got no answers, you hardly hear anyone mention MON, but it could be more important.

See'ya

:burnout:

[rev210]

Originally posted by GTS-t VSPEC

rev210,

I must admit I'm on the limit or past the limit of my knowledge, so its guessing from here on out.  

I know that VP Motorsport 103 fuel has an octane rating of 107, and therefore stupidly high boost could be run in theory. The Formula 1 guys are automotive gods, and us mere mortals will never understand how they do what they do.

Sorry that I've got no answers, you hardly hear anyone mention MON, but it could be more important.

See'ya

:burnout:

VP 103 has its limits and they aren't that high. Race fuels like C16 allow high boost but once again not that high. RM/2 is a more respected figure in race fuel terminology (mean RON+MON).