building a track car

[BRASCO modifications]

hey guys im kind of new to the skyline scene im a silvia boy i currently have a s14 but im wanting to build a track car over the next couple of years im looking at a r32 gts4 i think it is i want a 4wd but i dont want to get a wrx so i thought this would be a great car to do up

i only wanted an uncomplied one as i wont be driving it on the road just for circuit my question is are these gts4 reliable?

what engine do they come with?

do they handle well?

what sort of power can i get from one?

do they have over heating problems?

what turbo do they come with and what can i push out of it?

with about 20g to spend on it but some of that will be going towards suspension set up as well

so im looking at fuel pump cooler autronic ecu 780cc injectors oil cooler big radiator 3" exhaust and maybe some other bits and pieces what do you think please help me on as many questions as you can thanks guys your the breast

[Roy]

If it has to be 4WD, hence you dont want to consider an R32 GTST, id say do yourself a favour and speak to someone like Ichiban in Sydney that are regularly importing cars liek EVO4s for race/rally.

Much better starting point then a GTS4, in my opinion.

If RWD is ok, then i have a whole swag of ideas and thoughts:)

[BRASCO modifications]

i was considering that so i can do the odd drift event but you cant really have them both if you want to handel then you cant have a drift car and if you want to drift you cant have a circuit car unless you have some change over parts handy but im not really interested in that didnt really want anything to expensive like an evo cause i can pick up a uncomplied gts4 for about 5-7g if i can get some power from it it will be a good circuit car im looking for around 230-280rwkw at least thats plenty to fly around phillip island just need to set up the suspension and some decent brakes

[Guerilla]

1989 – 1993 Nissan Skyline R32 GTS-t/GTS-4

Engine RB20DET

Type Inline 6 DOHC, F/I

Capacity 1998cc

Kw 160Kw

Torque 263 Nm

Gears 4 Spd Auto, 5 Spd Man

Brakes Vented discs

Length 4530mm

Width 1695mm

Height 1320mm

[BRASCO modifications]

1989 – 1993 Nissan Skyline R32 GTS-t/GTS-4

Engine RB20DET

Type Inline 6 DOHC, F/I

Capacity 1998cc

Kw 160Kw

Torque 263 Nm

Gears 4 Spd Auto, 5 Spd Man

Brakes Vented discs

Length 4530mm

Width 1695mm

Height 1320mm

thanks man do you recon it would be possible to do a rb25det conversion but keep the 4wd just want a few extra cubes

[predator]

I think if you're going that far, you might want to consider importing a later model GTR and not getting it complied..

Why wouldn't you want a WRX? For $20k you could get a hot stinker of a done up WRX from japan.. even if you wrote it into a wall, you'd be able to sell most of the parts and stay clear. or an early EVO I or II like Roy is suggesting.

As for GTS4 personally I think you are better with the R32 GTS-T as there are more options, less stuffing without the 4wd, less complex system to break.. and the 100kg or so weight difference, which you will feel.

[Roy]

Seriously, if you want a circuit car, and you want to be quick, then you dont need 4wd:)

About the fastest car SAU-Vic have around Phillip Island is a very nice and well modded R34 GTR V-Spec. Funny thing is though as your car wont be a daily driver, then weight loss and grip do wonders.

Would you believe a little Series III RX-7 is 2 second off these cars using a much smaller control tyre, still road legal tyres and only has an NA ported 13B, driven by a girl (ok she is a good steerer but shames us fellas:))

My point is if you want a quick track car, the last thing you want is weight, and 4wd weighs a bit. And the cost associated with 3 diffs rather then one. If you want to do the occassional drifting, then a good track car will drift just fine. At worst a bit of a more radical wheel alignment, but nothing more then that.

I still say try Ichiban in Sydney, the best option for a track car in my eyes (Sorry Nissan) is a Series 6 RX7, ($9,900) or if it must be 4WD an EVO IV ($12,900)

Another thing is if your building a track car, are you going to race it in any particular class, or are you just wanting a fast creation to thrash around in Open days and Sprints?

[BRASCO modifications]

Seriously, if you want a circuit car, and you want to be quick, then you dont need 4wd:)

About the fastest car SAU-Vic have around Phillip Island is a very nice and well modded R34 GTR V-Spec. Funny thing is though as your car wont be a daily driver, then weight loss and grip do wonders.  

Would you believe a little Series III RX-7 is 2 second off these cars using a much smaller control tyre, still road legal tyres and only has an NA ported 13B, driven by a girl (ok she is a good steerer but shames us fellas:))

My point is if you want a quick track car, the last thing you want is weight, and 4wd weighs a bit. And the cost associated with 3 diffs rather then one.  If you want to do the occassional drifting, then a good track car will drift just fine. At worst a bit of a more radical wheel alignment, but nothing more then that.

I still say try Ichiban in Sydney, the best option for a track car in my eyes (Sorry Nissan) is a Series 6 RX7, ($9,900) or if it must be 4WD an EVO IV ($12,900)

Another thing is if your building a track car, are you going to race it in any particular class, or are you just wanting a fast creation to thrash around in Open days and Sprints?

mmm wouldnt mind a rx but i dont want the hassel of the rotary or though i love em they are a pain in the arse apparently anyway ive alwaysed loved the evos maybe that is a good option i just wanted something alittle sleeker though cause the wrx and evo sits fairly high

but the main issue i had was handeling thats why i thought 4wd but i guess you can build a rwd to handel prwettty damn good to may be a r32 gtst then cant afford a gtr or though i would love one

the car will mostly be used for openm days until i get alittle more involved and i will most likely compete in some races thanks for the halp anyway guys

[Silver-Arrowz]

If I were in your shoes, I'd consider something that's RWD. It's easier to setup, front wheels steer, rear wheel powers. Easier to find a good balance.

Sure the GTS4 has more grip, but I doubt the extra weight is worth it.

[BRASCO modifications]

If I were in your shoes, I'd consider something that's RWD. It's easier to setup, front wheels steer, rear wheel powers. Easier to find a good balance.

Sure the GTS4 has more grip, but I doubt the extra weight is worth it.

yeah i think i might go the rwd now but what do you think is good car to start with is the r32 gtst a good car to race or should i go something else im pretty keen on the r32's ive always wanted a skyline but i think that the r33's are just a little comon now and i cant afford a r34 or any gtr's and i dont relly think the silvia range are the best for circuit there good for drift but not to stick i know they do handle good but not what im after

[Roy]

Depending on how far you want to go, id say S13s are fine. You will be upgrading the engine, the brakes, the gearbox etc on both so may as well start with the lightest car possible.

That said the GTST has wishbone suspension, similar weight when gutted, and suspect it has wider track etc so chassis wise its a good starting point. And the 32s are cheap as chips.

That said a guuted RX7 has all the same attributes but can get mroe power cheaply and reliably out of the 13B. The std 4 pot brakes would be up the job, gearbox is good to go. And you would be able to get it down to 1050 kgs by removing all the fluff from it.

Either wa, throw a cage in it, spend money on good rubber and suspension, and do the cooling /breathing mods on the 13B.

Im full of ideas, my problem is i cant make up my mind:(

[BRASCO modifications]

Depending on how far you want to go, id say S13s are fine. You will be upgrading the engine, the brakes, the gearbox etc on both so may as well start with the lightest car possible.

That said the GTST has wishbone suspension, similar weight when gutted, and suspect it has wider track etc so chassis wise its a good starting point.  And the 32s are cheap as chips.  

That said a guuted RX7 has all the same attributes but can get mroe power cheaply and reliably out of the 13B. The std 4 pot brakes would be up the job, gearbox is good to go. And you would be able to get it down to 1050 kgs by removing all the fluff from it.  

Either wa, throw a cage in it, spend money on good rubber and suspension, and do the cooling /breathing mods on the 13B.  

Im full of ideas, my problem is i cant make up my mind:(

ha ha ha thanks mate ill have to look into the rotaries a bit more i was told they need to be pulled down reguly cause they arnt that reliable but i will look at a older rx if the roary pull through for me

[BRASCO modifications]

does anybody know any good rotary site or mazda or rx7 sites to get some more info on these cars

[Duncan]

r32 GTST is a great place to start

yours is no slouch Roy, and its not like you've had to spend a fortune on it.

Sydneykid is also building a quick one now.

The best things about the 32 GTST are:

nice and light

many parts in common with other skylines

can fit rb 30/26/25 later on

proper wishbone suspension

did I say nice and light?

Oh and not one of those nasty rotary engines, (right Neil?)

[machg]

If you haven't done any track work, trust me, weight is you biggest enemy. I have done a little entry level track work, and I agree with others that say that a R32 GTST is the way to go. I know of a couple of lightly modded GTSTs (e.g. external engine mods and suspension) that are faster around Symmonds Plains than a standard GTR.

machg

[Snowman]

I'd go the GTST before the GTS4.

PERSONALLY - I'd try and find a track only R32 GTR however. You should be able to get one for under 20K. I still say at somewhere like the Island a lightly sorted GTR will out-perform at decently sorted GTS variety. Roy keeps telling me otherwise but I'm still waiting for the results. Mildly modded GTR's with good rubber are pumping out low 1.50's or better at the Island. Scotsman has run a 1.51 in a R33 GTR with stock ECU, Suspection, Turbs etc and Aaron ran a 1.50 with just a Power FC but still stock suspension etc in an R34 GTR. I think from what we've seen you'd need to spend a few $$$ on a GTS to get down to those times compared to what you can get a pretty basic track only GTR from Japan for.

[gtr jason]

I think the gtr is the go as well they need very little mods to go quick 400hp with out a problem

[pentae]

I'd definately go buy an s13 and drop an rb26 in it..

Even a standard sr20det s13 with exhaust, fmic, upgraded turbo, boost, suspension, computer.. will absolutely haul ass and be a hoot to take to the track.

Because this is a skyline site, you could go the r32 gts-t with rb20det and the same mods.. your going to get better times with the same mods and less money spent in the s13 though. Just make sure you get a whiteline kit so it takes the corners more like a race car and less like a drift car.

Your going to need some pretty wide tread on it as well..

Do you have a budget in mind? Maintenance? Rebuilding an rb26 will cost more than an sr20/rb20

[Duncan]

yeah personally I'd stay away from a gtr unless you fully understand what it could cost you to run

great cars, I have a race one myself, but they can be very expensive.....

[Roy]

Roy keeps telling me otherwise but I'm still waiting for the results. Mildly modded GTR's with good rubber are pumping out low 1.50's or better at the Island. Scotsman has run a 1.51 in a R33 GTR with stock ECU, Suspection, Turbs etc and Aaron ran a 1.50 with just a Power FC but still stock suspension etc in an R34 GTR.

LOL...well im selling my car so the torch will be passed to the next owner to see what the car can do. I have to decide whether i should do Sandown or PI as its last track day.

I ramble, and people dont believe me when i say what times i think my car can do. Thats cool, i have thought out loud too often and havent personally backed up my thinking so its natural i suppose.

My last PI day i did a 1:58 under yellows with low boost and 215rwkws. So i know given no yellow flag i would have done a 1:56, I suspect i would have done a 1:55.

LOL...people will say these are excuses, but im sick of picking the car up from mechanics after work has been done. Driving for 2 hours to the track and farking my car up because something wasnt right:(

So im taking baby steps and making sure everything is ok. That 1:58 lap at PI was the 2nd session which was under yellows, and when i pitted and checked tyre pressures it only had 16psi in the rear right. No wonder the car was handling so badly. And as i pitted on the 2nd lap of the 1st session because of my AVCR blew the ECU fuse...after rolling/pushing/tow back into the pits i didnt check the tyre pressures. And returning to the pits at the end of the 2nd session i was low on coolant as the hose had come loose from the radiator return...sigh...

So was gunshy for the rest of the day as i was checking i didnt have a leak in my right rear tyre; turned out it was the dodgy servo pump that messed up the pressure. Making sure that the radiator hose connection was sound. And was nursing a spongy brake pedal:(

Thankfully it ran the rest of the day trouble free with the exception of the brake pedal...so i think im about there as far as fixing the car. Just need to get the oil analysed to see if the engines bottom end is happy at that power rating.

Excuses, meh its im hoping the last of the little probs from all the work that was done last years dramas

Im leaning towards Sandown as my next day. As i have satisfied myself that my car with 235rwkws and me with more laps (i have only done about 20laps, many of those out laps on cold tyres, as i have only completed two full sessions) can do a 1:53. LOL...if i get thru the first two sessions at Sandwon without probs, ill give it high boost and 235rwkws, 7,800rpm rev limit and see if i can get near the 1:25-27 sec i think i can get.

Ramblings of a crazy man...probably.

But i still think as a rule with a 25-30K budget you can get a better track car using a GTST then GTR. Better by just as fast, better durability and less running costs. Cars like deorbits R32 GTR are the exception, if you can get a GTR like that, then go for it:)

But considering an R34 GTR for a moment, even with std V-Spec suspension its going to be a good thing, much better then a car with 4yr old Bilsteins valved for sporting/street driving like my car. Also its a 65K car that only 5 years old. Hardly a fair comparison to the sort of car im talking about.

Scotsmans car is a great example of what a 35-40K GTR buys you. It susp was tired and the Teins appear to have made a big difference. It will be interesting to hear his thoughts as he has driven my car and could offer comment on whether my meds need to be upped.

And my car is so far from what i would call a 'track orientated car'. Its a daily driver that i enjoy track work with. My suspension is far more street then track. With the street geometry settings i now run it doesnt even wear the front tyres properly, but it seems to be a good compromise of wear on both street and track.

A Series 6/8 RX-7 driven by a good driver does 1:45s around PI. Thats with aftermarket ECU, exhaust, improved intercooler, but with std turbos, minimal weight reduction but with GOOD SUSP and semi slicks (it may have been slicks, happy to be corrected)

Now look at an R33 GTR like Franks which does the same time, it has far more mods, and has in the realm of +100kws more then the RX7. That seems to make up for the 250-350 extra kgs that GTRs must carry. What would the same RX7 do with more hp and mods that arent restricted by the class regs it races under. Hell an NA 13B Series III RX7 with 16" semis, about 750-800kgs and good susp does 1:49s around PI.

Given enough time, and patience and knowledge you only have to look at the RacePace GTR. Im not even going there, as the GTR is a better starting point to build the ultimate track car. We are talking about a guy that wants to buy a 10k car and spend up to 20k modding it. Perhaps Duncan can comment on whether 20K is going to be enough to get his GTR doing the numbers?

end ramblings...for now...can you tell im having trouble sleeping:(