confused: r32 front end camber

[predator]

I am having some problems with the front end in my R32.

The first is that its suffering from some major front camber issues, which is fairly visible, and the tyres on the inside are very worn (to the canvas on one side ). As far as I can tell, its still got the stock shocks and springs, wich makes it a little strange, as it should still be stock ride height. It still has the stock 16" rims.

The wheel to guard measurement on each side i've measured to be 38mm. Could it be possible that the springs are getting old, starting to sag, and dropping the standard height?

The front end does experience some guard scrub on high speed cornering on banked corners (don't ask), which tends to indicate to me floaty/worn springs??

I was leaning towards it's almost time to replace the factory springs for some Whitelines, so if it is most likely to be that, hopefully that fixes the problem.

One upper control arm was replaced about a month ago for a brand new one. The other is fairly worn, but bushes aren't completely rotted on that side yet.

The second thing I'm noticing (which I think is related?) is that the steering shakes pretty violently at anything above 90km/hr, making for a pretty uncomfortable drive. I'd say its fairly related to the above. I have swapped the rims/tyres with replacement tyres (also nearly bald ammitedly, but more even wear) just recently to eliminate that, and same problem. So it doesn't seeem to be tyre/balance related?

The problem seems to have got worse recently, but I am not exactly sure.

[cul202]

My R32 suffered the wanders on wavey surfaced roads when I got it. Later I noticed heavy on the inside edge of the front tyres. I figured this was caused by running way to much toe out causing the tyres to constatly fight each other.

Took it to a wheel alignment place & had the toe put back to zero & presto, problem solved. I dont think yours would be a camber problem with std control arms & ride height. Get a wheel alignment & check it out.

Mine has now developed a bit of a shake under braking from 90+km/h. I'm not sure whats causing it. I'll have to get the discs looked at...

.

[predator]

It's quite possible, as I did have to disconnect a tie-rod to put on a new rack boot. I thought I had marked it down properly, but it is quite possible its out. The car does drive straight and true whilst the hands are off the wheel, it just shudders.

It just seems a little like camber, as I think I can spot the wheels sitting outwards more at the bottom when I look at the car on level ground.

The other item I was thinking about could be castor rods.. as the bushes in there don't look too healthy either. But from what I understand this would have more of an effect on turning rather than straight line?

[Genesis®]

gordon, the castor rods do influence the car's driving straight or pulling left/right. I had the same problem with the black GTS (pulling left) and with the GTR (poor front camber).

for the GTS, i got urethane bushes from UAS to replace the stock ones (leaking) and then went for a wheel alignment. The car was driving straight after.

As for the GTR, i got the whiteline camber bush kit for the fronts. I think it allows setting for +/- 1 degree than the stock ones. New tyres went 2 weeks ago and i set the front camber at -1.25. Apparently from most advice i heard, the best camber settings for front is -1.5 and rear at -1.0.

another thing to remember though is that if you mess around with the castor, your camber will change and vice versa.

smell the chicken yet?

[Sydneykid]

I am having some problems with the front end in my R32.

The first is that its suffering from some major front camber issues, which is fairly visible, and the tyres on the inside are very worn (to the canvas on one side ). As far as I can tell, its still got the stock shocks and springs, wich makes it a little strange, as it should still be stock ride height. It still has the stock 16" rims.  

The wheel to guard measurement on each side i've measured to be 38mm. Could it be possible that the springs are getting old, starting to sag, and dropping the standard height?  

The front end does experience some guard scrub on high speed cornering on banked corners (don't ask), which tends to indicate to me floaty/worn springs??

I was leaning towards it's almost time to replace the factory springs for some Whitelines, so if it is most likely to be that, hopefully that fixes the problem.

One upper control arm was replaced about a month ago for a brand new one. The other is fairly worn, but bushes aren't completely rotted on that side yet.  

The second thing I'm noticing (which I think is related?) is that the steering shakes pretty violently at anything above 90km/hr, making for a pretty uncomfortable drive. I'd say its fairly related to the above. I have swapped the rims/tyres with replacement tyres (also nearly bald ammitedly, but more even wear) just recently to eliminate that, and same problem. So it doesn't seeem to be tyre/balance related?  

The problem seems to have got worse recently, but I am not exactly sure.

Hi Gordon, enough guess work, time for some real data. Take it along and get the 4 wheel alignment checked (not just the front). Don't get them to adjust anything, yet. Then post the results up here and we can tell you whats wrong instantly.

[predator]

yeah, true - it does need to be checked out.

I'll take it to a suspension place in a couple of weeks and get some proper measurements done.

I'll post the results when I get them.

[predator]

ok, well I *finally* got it done. It needed a whole bunch of new bushes and things replacing.. rack end, rear balljoints, steering rack mount bush, gearbox mount bush.. and castor rod bushes both sides. Was an expensive exercise but it needed to be done.

Anyhow, its much better to drive... and at the end I have an alignment sheet with all the settings.

I didn't have much of a chance to discuss all the items in the alignment sheet with them unfortunately, but I've attached it for some thoughts from people (sorry about quality, had to camera it). I've got a few questions there...

* left and right front camber are slightly different - how bad is this? I am thinking this may be due to LHS having replaced upper control arm+bushes about 2 months ago.

* Castor LHS & RHS still different (front), even after new poly bushes were installed . How much could this be a problem?

* As suspected, rear camber was all nice and fairly even as i was having no rear wear issues.. but now why would LHS & RHS be out like that?

Unfortunately the test was undertaken with burnout rims on the front and stuffed tyres (long story). How much will this throw everything out?? I have since replaced the front tyres with new ones.

If somebody could give me some explanations and pointers on areas in which I should head next, that would be greatly appreciated... Unfortunately won't be rushing for a couple of months due to money I just spent, but would be nice to know what I should be saving for

I have picked up some 2nd hand Bilsteins and looking to install these with the stock springs for a while (I suspect rear shocks rooted - clunks).. want to see how this setup changes things before considering other options.

[Duncan]

well this is my comments.

Firstly most road alignments have more camber on the left, this is deliberate to take into account the camber on most roads (slope left to drain water). This helps them to drive straight.

What happens next is the alignment shop sets the toe to be the same #mm out as the camber. Eg if you have 2o camber they give you 2mm toe out. This is to improve the wear of the tyre, camber lifts part of the tyre off the ground, so they add toe to try and drag more of the tyre across the surface and spread the wear around. This is not great for handling.

The toe at the rear is out, personally I would be asking for 0 toe or even 1-2mm toe in. This will make the rear of the car much more stable and less prone to oversteer (unless you want to provoke it of course)

Front toe out is perfect for turn in to corners so that looks good.

And by the way your pre alignment settings were appalling, especially the toe! Everyone please get regular wheel alignments done, especially if you hit something! More than anything farked up toe like that will mess up the cars handling

Re the crap tyres when it was aligned, it will make absolutely no difference.....unless they were not round in the first place. Don't worry too much unless you can see they are stuffed

[predator]

Thanks for the pointers duncan, quite useful.

Yeah, the front was shocking - hence the massive shaking at anything over 100km/hr. It was getting almost undriveable. I guess that is one of the things about getting an old car car direct from japan, you are almost guaranteed not much has been serviced too well, esp. in the suspension stakes.

But the car is handling much better and I can push it around a lot more. The next step will be upping the power, where the handling, or lack of will be more noticeable and I can decide what to do next. Next track day is a couple of months away, but that will be another good chance to test it all out properly.