Brake and coilover setup (discussion)

[Adam_RSX]

Why do you need coilovers and why do you need 4 pot brakes?

[Ghostrider]

4 spots will always stop better than 1!

I had a ride in an MR with 175Kw at the treads on the weekend and it had VT front brakes. 337 X 28 with a single spot caliper and I thought braking from about 200 kliks was reasonable, I didn't think it was anything to get carried away with.

If going down the Z32 track ..... 280 X 30, I would think the conversion would be fairly easy, as the stock DR's are 274 X 22 and on the struts, the caliper mounts are both the same at 100mm.

As for coilovers, adaption is your only choice as far as I know. There has been a lot of discussion on these forum pages regarding adaption of S13's, but I have a full set of JIC's and to my knowledge, the only purpose built R30 coilovers in the country. Pedders will convert your standard struts/shocks for about $1700 pair, yet if your handy, or know someone that is, the kits can be bought for about $400.00, then all you need is a machine shop to turn off the front spring seat.

The front bar is in the moulding stage, when they are available, or able to be moulded, I will let everyone know, but transport for me is a problem, as it doesn't quite fit across the back seat.

Cheers

[Adam_RSX]

If you can lock the brakes then they have enough bite, but generally with 4 pots you can have a thicker rotor so it can soak up more heat.

I havent had any problems with my standard brakes though and my car gets thrashed in the hills a lot

[Ghostrider]

Adam,

I have argued this exact point many times on these forum pages, and especially today when you can get 750 degree EBC Red Stuff front pads (DP 3538) the bigger front brakes becomes lesser of an issue, but in certain conditions (race) 4 spots would be a destinct advantage.

The Adelaide hills are one thing, but trying to pull up from over 200kph on the straights of some race tracks is an entirely different matter and 4 spots, I would think could come in handy.

And if you read my previous post you would see that Z32 rotors are an extra 8mm thicker as well as 6mm bigger in diameter.

I have a BNR32 GTR front upgrade in the pipeline, that's 296 x 32 rotors with 4 spot calipers and I firmly believe that these fronts will be far superior to the VT conversion mentioned earlier, despite the fact that the GTR pads are smaller. VT 184 x 64 & R32 GTR 120 x 70. The single pot VT caliper cannot apply the same pressure, or distribution as the 4 pot GTR.

[Adam_RSX]

And DR30RULES is how likely to be pulling up from 200 repeatedly?

No doubt the GTR brakes will be better, but if your current brakes will lock up the wheels the GTR ones won't make it stop faster, you'll just get more stops in before they overheat.

My car will be doing sprints at Mallala but as long as the brakes will last 5 laps I won't be upgrading them

[DR JOSH]

I know for a fact my standard DR brakes wouldn't have been able to do a continuse 5 laps of damn hard driving round mallala. I love my 4 pots and 300mm rotors and wouldnt go back to standard for any reason, except a defect.

[DR30RULES]

Hi Ghostrider, How difficult/expensive is it to convert to S13 coil-overs (I have found a set of Tien's HR height adjustable to suit for $990)

RE the front bar I am sure I can orginize shiping to Melbourne.

Do you know the approx size of the bar?

Can you recommend any other suspension mods for DR30.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers

[Ghostrider]

And DR30RULES is how likely to be pulling up from 200 repeatedly?

No doubt the GTR brakes will be better, but if your current brakes will lock up the wheels the GTR ones won't make it stop faster, you'll just get more stops in before they overheat.

My car will be doing sprints at Mallala but as long as the brakes will last 5 laps I won't be upgrading them

Adam,

Your terribly wrong with what you say. I bet my HR with GTR brakes, will stop from 200kph in a shorter distance than your stock DR will every time on ever lap.

And this being the case I would be able to brake later than you in every corner which would make a huge difference in each lap time.

John's (UAS) Z32 has about 15 inch rotors with Porsche 6 spot callipers up front and I'm positive he wouldn't have upgraded from stock 280's if it were not significantly better.

[Ghostrider]

Hi Ghostrider, How difficult/expensive is it to convert to S13 coil-overs (I have found a set of Tien's HR height adjustable to suit for $990)

RE the front bar I am sure I can orginize shiping to Melbourne.

Do you know the approx size of the bar?

Can you recommend any other suspension mods for DR30.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers

@ $990.00, buy them, as you won't do the conversion for less.

As for suspension tuning goes, rule of thumb is, control the sway with bars and tune the springs and before you can do this with something other than GUESSTAMATION, you have to know what & how your car weighs.

[gslrallysport]

Adam, your correct in what your saying about, from cold, more pots WONT stop you faster if you can already undo your tyres... for all those who reckon their bigger brakes stop cars quicker, its more likely that you hadn't changed your brake fluid in the five years previous...

On a strip, wow to go, a detom with standard brakes on slicks will outbrake ANY skyline here running road tyres... on a track, lap after lap, it'll change, but for those who believe "more pots stop you faster", then you've really got no idea...

[Ghostrider]

Adam, your correct in what your saying about, from cold, more pots WONT stop you faster if you can already undo your tyres... for all those who reckon their bigger brakes stop cars quicker, its more likely that you hadn't changed your brake fluid in the five years previous...

On a strip, wow to go, a detom with standard brakes on slicks will outbrake ANY skyline here running road tyres... on a track, lap after lap, it'll change, but for those who believe "more pots stop you faster", then you've really got no idea...

Very interesting!

Maybe you should tell Nissan that their 4 pot system on their Skyline & Fairlady range is a load of crap and they shouldn't waste their money. Maybe Porsche would also be interested in your theory regarding their 6 spot system on GT's & Carrera's, also Harrop and many others might like your ideas.

[gslrallysport]

WOW! Alot of marketting jargon.. but not a real load of proof....

Wot adam is debating is whether bigger brakes stop a car quicker FROM COLD!!! So by saying that "more spots will stop you quicker", you've pretty well admitted that your ordinary brakes can't lock the tyres... which by all standards.. a Kia Pregio pick up van can...

In a one off stop the weak link isn't overheated brakes, its underperforming tyres... its after a few stop that bigger brakes will start to perform better... you've clearly got no idea of some basic concepts (like whether or not standard brakes can lock tyres), so i don't really think its worth adam's or mine time debating a rather pointless subject...

Initial brake performance is determined by two things... 1. Weight distribution vs brake bias, and 2. The tyres!

Repeated brake performance come down to the ability to disperse heat, ie, bigger brakes, bigger rotors, higher grade fluid...

You go off and get some nice fancy 8 pot N1 spec callipers, but when i can beat you in a buzzbox running racing slicks, don't wet your pants...

BTW, when you find a car, with standard brakes, that can't lock the wheels, let me know... its some pretty basic concepts, if your cruising down the highway at 100k's+, and you want to stop ASAP, wots the weak link, tyres or brakes???

[Ghostrider]

Your last paragraph/question is absurd ....... have you not found ABS yet and control goes out the door in brake lock up. An experienced driver doesn't lock up his brakes.

And if I may quote "If you can lock the brakes then they have enough bite but generally with 4 pots you can have a thicker rotor so it can soak up more heat.

I haven't had any problems with my standard brakes and my car gets thrashed in the hills a lot".

Before I bother to answer anything you say, please explain where anything has been said or implied to COLD STOPPING in his exact words???????

[hrd-hr30]

you're missing the point about bigger brakes. The larger diametre discs give increased leverage, and better stopping power. This is simple physics.

Also that line of thought about "if you can lock your brakes already, bigger brakes won't help you stop any quicker" is BS. The larger the brake, the more progression exists close to the point of locking the wheels, so you have a larger window to operate in when threshold braking. And its easier to do it repeatedly.

multiple spot calipers also provide better clamping force, and apply that pressure more evenly over the pad surface. They are also less prone to pad 'knock-off'.

BTW, when you find a car, with standard brakes, that can't lock the wheels, let me know...

I reckon you're standard charade wouldn't have a hope of locking up the fronts in a straight line once the slicks were up to temp. It's easy to think cars like charades have good brakes, but the real reason they stop really quick is because they're going really slow!

[DR30RULES]

Why do you need coilovers and why do you need 4 pot brakes?

Well current plan is to set the car up with S13 Tein coil-overs with adjustable height, camber. S13 hubs,R33 front brakes and other small suspension mods.

I think that if set up correctly the car should handle a little better and brake a little better.

I think this may be a good idea as the aim is to get around 200rwkw (eventually) from Autronic/GT28RS and other mods.

The car will be used for road and some track days and other road rally stuff. Not to be competitive just to have some fun.

Man I really like my DR and I like the idea moding the DR30 because I reakon they look and drive beautiful standard but have a lot of potential, so I say if you can why not make it even better and really see what these old things can do.

I understand it is not everyones cup of tea and 90% of the time its not really needed on the road but I hey I like what I like.

Cheers.

[Ghostrider]

Be careful with the S13 camber tops. You will find the stud pattern the same, but in the exact reverse and therefore any adjustment is very minor.

I have a pair od GReddy tops here that I'm not using at present, and haven't used them for this exact reason.

Do some searching for R30 tops so that some negative camber can be achieved, about 2 degrees is plenty for our cars.

[DR JOSH]

Well current plan is to set the car up with S13 Tein coil-overs with adjustable height, camber. S13 hubs,R33 front brakes and other small suspension mods.

Cheers.

That would be the same as my setup FOUND HERE

With the strut tops all ya really need to do is elongate the 3 holes for adjustment in the other direction to give you negative camber. Either that or as I am kinda thinking of doing and extend control arms.

For all playing around with standard brakes have fun with it. Ghostrider and I will be off enjoying our BIG brakes.

[Boof]

Be careful with the S13 camber tops. You will find the stud pattern the same, but in the exact reverse and therefore any adjustment is very minor.

I have a pair od GReddy tops here that I'm not using at present, and haven't used them for this exact reason.

Do some searching for R30 tops so that some negative camber can be achieved, about 2 degrees is plenty for our cars.

Yes your right in that case Dennis, but all you do is reverse the way that you run them, so instead of pushing them fully in, you push them fully out!! It spins some ppl out when they see it!!

Having gone from the single spot standard DR30 brakes to the R3x 4 piston caliper/rotor combo never again will i go back to a standard setup unless i get defected!! The 4 spots stop so much easier, the standard brakes wouldn't have lasted more then a couple of laps around mallala, i had them cooked after about 20 mins of hard hills driving!!! S H I T ! ! ! ! ! And yes i had decent pads and brake fluid in it!!!

[Ghostrider]

Yes your right in that case Dennis, but all you do is reverse the way that you run them, so instead of pushing them fully in, you push them fully out!!  It spins some ppl out when they see it!!

Having gone from the single spot standard DR30 brakes to the R3x 4 piston caliper/rotor combo never again will i go back to a standard setup unless i get defected!!  The 4 spots stop so much easier, the standard brakes wouldn't have lasted more then a couple of laps around mallala, i had them cooked after about 20 mins of hard hills driving!!!  S H I T ! ! ! ! !  And yes i had decent pads and brake fluid in it!!!

Boof,

You run yours with positive camber in that case. Mine are AGRESS not GReddy as previously mentioned.

No matter, not as pretty as these.

[DR30RULES]

I already have Cusco adjustable strut tops in, can these be used?

Thanks for your help guys

I dont know much about this stuff but I am learning slowly

Cheers