CES Racing full exhaust claims?

[zymotic]

Quoting a 40+ rwkw gain on a stock 33gtst.

Can anybody confirm these figures?

http://www.cesracing.com.au/

[Sacony]

Looking at the website it only says 24kW, but to prove it Trevour dyno's the car before and after. To me thats pretty good service from an exhaust specialist!

[zymotic]

FULL SYSTEM FOR R33 GTST... 40+  KW GAIN (FROM STOCK) - FULL SYSTEM (15 - 18 KW ABOVE SINGLE DUMP PIPE SYSTEMS..)

BRINGS ON BOOST EARLIER...MAKES MORE POWER.. EVERYWHERE !

If they dyno the car before and after I'll let u know what I get. 40 seems like a lot!

They are apparently the best though.

[drewecrome]

Hey mate when i had my r33 gtst, I bought a set of his double dumps and just used my kakimoto cat back exhaust, with a fuel pump, the dumps and 10psi on APC's dyno my car made 187.3rwkws in shoot out mode. So im not sure what R33 gtsts make stock but id say that it would be around 140rwkws or so, so therefore id say his quota of 40 rwkws is pretty close. Just my 3 cents.

[FATGTS-R]

From your quote zymotic they are claiming KW, not RWKW.

[zymotic]

Probably true. So extra 40kw at engine not equal to 40 at rears.

Wasn't sure if drivetrain loss is constant or increases with increased

engine power (%).

[Scooby]

I think CES are quoting increases atw, they don't have an engine dyno as far as I know.

[JCMarshall_Law]

I've had a few chats with the guy who makes these and I have to admit, he had me very interested - and I'm definatly not easy to convince - especially by someone who is tryiny to sell me one.

I have heard lots of good things about them from independant sources as well. I think I'll be giving one of their split dumps a go when I get the cash (something like $500)

[DAN00H]

very expensive for what is a copy of the HKS design (for GTR) I was quoted something like $700-$800 for split dumps. just got a set from CRD for $450 + $20 posting. this includes all new gaskets/bolts.

[zymotic]

Note all items are manufactured in house,  we have our own MANDREL BENDING MACHINE and in house dyno (for development and research).  All goods are workmanship guaranteed for 12 months.  (Subject to NORMAL useage).

GTT TWIN DUMP PIPE (ALONE)    $550.00

from Trevor's email

They are expensive but if you consider bang for buck perhaps not. eg average full zorst may make 25wrkw but if theres really makes 40rwkw (33gtst) then bang for buck wise it probably makes lot of sense forking out. Also the most free flowing

exhaust will I think enhance other mods more than an average exhaust.

This is all hypothetical and theory so thats why I made the post to see if anybody could enlighten with practical insight. Cos I don't really know. I mean I spent $1k

on previous full zorst if that gave me only 25rwkw then its a false economy to an extent, if you plan on doing at least mild mods anyway. Maybe u get what u pay for applies here...

[Myth33]

I have priced a full Stainless 'HKS' brand 3" Mandrel Bent Exhaust (turbo-back) fitted for $1500 from Hardcore on Moss Street in Slacks Creek. This was for a R34GTT btw. I dont have any dyno figures that I can post but I can't see how any Aussie exhaust maker is going to beat the Research and Development put in by such a large Japanese Performance Powerhouse such as HKS.

I have been researching exhausts for a while now (looking at changing my GTT exhaust when I get it in the next week or two) and a claim of 40KW even at the engine, I find extremely hard to swallow. I have volume 3 video of HPI magazines 'Project 34' where they fitted an Apexi exhaust to an R34GTT and dyno'd it before and after. The GTT made 148 RWKW standard then 158RWKW after fitting an Apexi GT Cat back System and Apexi GT front pipe. The GT system from Apexi is as large as 3.74 inches in some places and was designed using the aid of a hi-tech CAD (Computer Aided Design) programme so that it has the minimum amount of bends possible.

Thats a gain of 10 RWKW for a quality brand name system with large diameter piping.

Now back to the Aussie Exhausts I have been quoted prices of between 2000-3000 for custom locally made exhausts of similar quality/design. The main point that seems to get brought up by the Aussie exhaust specialists is their exhausts at this price are "Ceramic coated". This supposedly reduces heat in the system and therefore power. Not sure on this myself, I mean how fast do you think exhaust gases flow through an exhaust system, especially under high load? I just cant see this providing 100%-200% gain over a full Jap system. I am yet to find a Jap spec system that is ceramic coated to compare details, which makes me wonder why they aren't using this technology if its so good?

Just sharing my 2 cents anyway, feel free to debate anything I have found becuase I am ultimately seeking the best upgrade path here as well.

[Myth33]

This supposedly reduces heat in the system and therefore power.

I meant to say: reduces heat and increases power. Soz

[zymotic]

feel free to debate

No need for me to debate with u I appreciate the input.

I am dubious on the 40kw claim also thus the thread title.

Your $1500 sounds good. My questions are does this include

high flow 3 inch+ cat, quality muffler twin tip or noisier cannon

and how loud; are they ADR noise compliant/<86db/quiet.

IE only as good/free flowing/power producing as weakest link/

smallest diameter allows.

10rwkw seems low perhaps because of running rich etc caused

by stock ecu. From what I have read on the forums a good full

zorst seems to give approx 20kw on a stock 33gtst. Perhaps

also GTT's don't respond as well, or ecu protects them better?

[Myth33]

In answer to your last post zymotic, I don't know too much more about the $1500 HKS system than what I have told you. It just stands out as the best option in my mind so far, based on all the research I have done. I dont have power increase figures or noise figures for that HKS system. However needless to say power increase would be good by any measure.

I have seen the HKS system on the wall (its on display at 'Hardcore') it looks great and there is two things that standout immediately when you have a look at it. Firstly it has a very small resonator (looks great flowing) , its almost like a straight through system from the cat with what I would call a "medium sized enlongated bubble" (this is the resonator) and then two soft bends to the muffler at the rear. I am not sure what you mean by a cannon muffler but if you can post an example I could tell you if it is similiar. The muffler too me looks much like a long cylinder with a single tip at the end.

The other thing that stood out, was the HKS sticker on it that said "True Street" which leads me to believe that this is a system designed with noise levels in mind, and secondly it has engraved into the exhaust tip the word "Silent". The system looks nice and shiny & all the welds are spot-on.

The fact that it is a brand name system is a big point for me anyway. I can't remember off the top of my head if it included the Hi-flow cat in that price. But that was definately the dump and cat-back fitted. After checking CES website it says 24KW but does not say at the wheels, yet other systems for other makes of cars are quoted on their site as ".....@ the wheels" so I'd say thats a flywheel figure (more realistic). Even so thats probably 10-13kws more at the engine than the very nice looking Apexi System that HPI Magazine fitted. Hmmm still not sure on that.

[zymotic]

Cannon Style! Apparently louder than a good twin tip. I don't like em.

Decisions, decisions, might put foward the HKS system + price (minus any

names or SAU references) to CES and see what they say. Can't hurt.

Anybody reading this thread with a before and after dyno run with full CES

zorst on gtst/gtt please share your results/thoughts.

[Myth33]

yep it looks a bit like that but is more 'cylinder' looking, ie; the muffler doesn't shape down smoothly to the tip. The tip is also longer and not cut on a angle like the one in that pic. I think it the HKS one that I have seen looks much nicer than that to be honest.

Can I ask how much were you quoted for the full CES system and does it meet any Australian Standards for noise requirements?

[zymotic]

another quote

we can do a custom system for your car with a twin tipped muffler that would look nearly original..  the system would be ADR noise compliant.....and would give awesome power gains!

 

The system would include:

1  X  TWIN DUMP PIPE   (M.S. PAINTED)

1  X  HI FLOW CAT. CONVERTER - FULLY FLANGED  

1  X  3"  M.S. SYSTEM   (PAINTED)

1  X  3"  OVAL  RESONATOR

1  X  3"  OVAL POLISHED TWIN TIPPED S.S. MUFFLER

Free noise emission test and certificate - fitted in house - by qualified Tradesmen.

 

Your Price  $1940.00   all up.

Can't find much in the way of exhausts on Greenline or Nengun. Can you share your hyperlinks or workshops that you've come accross. Oh I got quoted $1900 by

Mercury Motorsport for a similar system also using CES's twin dumps.

[raz0r$harP.UK]

if you are worried about noise get a trust power extreme very good price ie i think it was 8-900ish cat back... and these are quiet as

[Myth33]

Cheers Zymotic. Only problem is your paying $450 more for a 'Mild Steel' (M.S.) system instead of a Full Stainless Steel system. Stainless systems look better and are lighter than mild steel, so you get the power to weight benefit as well. Infact I can get a full 3" high flow Mild Steel system including Hi flow CAT like I did with my R33, from 'Right Price Exhaust' also in Moss Street for $1050 fitted including the Stainless Muffler.

[zymotic]

Yea, I had http://www.jackbeedham.com.au/ fit a turbo back mild steel with twin dumps, and stainless cannon for $1k (stock 33gtst). Definately noticed seat of pants gains in power and response. But that brings us back to one of the previous points. Are these $1500 to $2000+ systems worth it in terms of $ per kw? or might I just as well get them to do this exhaust with a resonator this time to reduce noise? I remember looking under my car a few times at the Beedham custom exhaust and noticing it was very straight with what seemed to be good quality maundrell bends + min restriction. I'd like to think that CES, Mercuries, HKS would be superior in power gains but I wonder...