CES Racing full exhaust claims?

[tk80]

I've spoken to ces about an exhaust for my car. They claim that a lot of the japanese systems are restrictive to keep the noise down and the 'non' restrictive systems are way too loud to pass db tests.....bit hit and miss.

I'm heading over to ces on tuesday to test their kw claims and compare their system to some others......i'll post my thoughts up here afterwards.

In the meantime if anyone can recommend me to any shops on the gold coast or in brisbane to do a quality exhaust on a gtr I would love to hear about it.

cheers

[zymotic]

i'll post my thoughts up here afterwards.

Sounds great, let us know.

[lwells]

I've spoken to ces about an exhaust for my car. They claim that a lot of the japanese systems are restrictive to keep the noise down and the 'non' restrictive systems are way too loud to pass db tests.....bit hit and miss.

That's amusing given that Australia also has dB limits as well. By that reasoning, all exhausts in Australia must be "restrictive" or "way too loud". I smell a sales pitch.

To give CES their dues, they are well regarded if expensive.

DAN00H: I was under the impression the CES dumps had a longer split than the HKS units, or is that wrong?

LW.

[Brazen]

From my understanding (which could easily be completely wrong lol) the HKS front pipe isnt even split... unless you buy the HKS "Extension Kit" that adds a tiny little 4 inch long split to the end of their single front pipe and is another $500+ ... Ive got an HKS exhaust (cat-back)which is awesome - good gains and nice noise without being too loud. However I am definitely going for split pipes up front CES style with the loooong split which is much better than the single HKS style, or even by adding their "extension kit". So yeah - just by saying "its HKS so must be better" is a bit assuming - maybe they've just determined their style of pipe pipe is just more commercially viable than splits... coz singles are half the construction price of splits.

So basically - the CES splits at $550 is a lot cheaper than a $450 HKS single + a $400 HKS extension kit to get a split that isnt as long and seperated as the CES style.

Feel free to point out if I am completely wrong - hell the HKS extension kit could be for something else completely... but yeah I am looking at purchasing front pipe soon so interested in this discussion... all I can offer by real evidence is that my mates GTR just had CES split pipes fitted and the difference is really, really noticeable... boost comes on so much earlier - close to 1000rpm earlier and then pushes harder all the way!

[xRHETTx]

Yeah i think the long split part is the reason why CES dump/front pipes are regarded so highly. IMHO they are the only split dump/front pipe that you can get off the shelf. Correct me if im wrong but ive never seen any others like them.

When i have the cash i'll definately be getting a CES split dump/front pipe. For the rest of the system, most 3" or so cat back systems are very similar and probably do about the same job

[GTR32]

I've had a CES split dump and full system on my RS Liberty for 5 years and it's great. Brilliant workmanship. At that stage they were cheap compared to others. I'm deliberating over whether to go for the long or short version of their dumps; long is my preference but they are twice the price and I already have Nismo engine pipes. Problem is no one including CES can give me kw gains long vs short version.

Brazen;

that's the first report I've heard on CES dumps, did your mate fit the long or short ones to his GTR?

Rhett;

Trust make a long style split dump/ engine pipe combo in stainless for $1400 from Autobarn. They do not have an expansion chamber design off the turbo flange like the CES ones.

[predator]

I dont have any dyno figures that I can post but I can't see how any Aussie exhaust maker is going to beat the Research and Development put in by such a large Japanese Performance Powerhouse such as HKS.

Well if a company is involved in building racing systems, and has built exhaust systems for drag, circuit, and across to things such as bikes and boats for many years, I am sure they also know a little something about r&d and getting a good performing system over the years

Some companies just build a system that is 3", etc and will fit the car, I am sure they progressed beyond that level quite a few years ago to getting the most out of the system. And their split pipes have proven that I think to most that have looked at them.

I am half interested in a cat-back sysetm from them if its only $200 or so more (it might be too much more ) than a cheaper system as they look to know their stuff, I'd prefer to go with them.. will see how it goes. I should call them and get a price.

The other thing, with R32 you are a little limited by choice, there just aren't many bolt-on HKS/trust/etc units available for R32 anymore.. unlike r33 where there are still a large number of systems available.

[Gts-t]

Come on pred, theres plenty of new jap exausts(think titanium as well) being made for the 32, and the gtr cat backs are fine to use as well if you want an even wider range perhaps. The only thing that really limits you is the effort you go to getting the parts and the money you spend.

Grab a trust power extreme II if you like that look, (personal taste is whats important too!!!) and want a jap brand. Its quiet and loud if you know what i mean. That 2.06lt chic has one on her high hp gtr too so its probably not as restictive as some loacal manufactures would lead you to belive.

On another note, i bought a combined dump/front pipe from batmbl; does he have the twin ones in mild steel avaiable yet for HCR32?? or any skylines?? I am very keen to get one when he does. Otherwise i too think i will grab a CES one for around $500, preferably not ceramic coated.

As far as power/responce increases go i think it depends on application. If you were running high boost and high rpm the turbulence/backpressure increase/whatever in the exaust is going to be much higher/worse than in a sub 1bar stock turbo car. Thus the increases in performance less noticeable when putting a CES twin dump on the stockish car than the modded one.

Apart from that the other gain is relevant to the stock car and the modded one. Apparently with the split design and decent lenght ie 400mm of wastegate gas separation you gain RESPONCE.

This is not something i have discovered (yet)but what SK will tell you only a whole lot better than i can. I am currently tho about to(when i get a spare day) raise my boost to around 17-18 pound through my blended dump/font pipe. In the next few months i will change over to a twin design from CES and let you know how it feels, if it boost earlier, if it has better responce etc.

I bought the BATMBL blended one in the first place soley to see for myself the difference when i chage to a CES/decent dump/front pipe. The costs were not the issue and nor was the fact the HKS dump pipe is the biggest heap of crap ive ever seen. Its one case they sure did manage to make shit shine tho

I dont think the dyno is going to show many gains on this one (though it might thru the midrange) unless you car is having trouble with boost consistency(from turbulence/backpressue/whatever though the top of the rev range and it is directly attributed to the dump pipe. ie not the turbo size or boost controler

Then there is the question of the standard exaust manifold and what increases(or decreases, lol) i could get from chaging that to aftermaket HPI/HKS style (see greeline.com). There is a guy selling one for 600, Bargain!!

Thats a whole other story tho,

Mick

[Brazen]

Brazen;

that's the first report I've heard on CES dumps, did your mate fit the long or short ones to his GTR?

He got the long ones - the CES "Competition" dumps - ceramic coated, plus the CES Y-piece (uncoated).

He told me he wouldnt say there's a massive peak power increase (he already had aftermarket dumps on there) but the RESPONSE is heaps better - boost comes on around 800 rpm earlier with the long split set-up... so an early and then long hard boost - to the point where he first thought it "felt" slower... coz before when it was coming on later it was more of a kick in the pants response - now it is an earlier stronger and more linear boost - but definitely faster once he started realising how much quicker his speedo was climbing than before.

He feels that at the moment for his GTR set-up the competition, coated pipes might be considered overkill (stock turbos, stock boost, stuck ECU etc) but they have made an improvement which will only gain with the boost eventually upped and a bigger set of turbos on.

[Myth33]

I have heard good things about Trust Exhaust systems, especially relating to the exhaust note, but I can not find anyone in Brissy that can supply one? Infact I can't find anyone that who can supply Apexi GT Exhausts either which I am fond of.

Trust make a long style split dump/ engine pipe combo in stainless for $1400 from Autobarn

Do Autobahn fit exhausts? Cool..... although $1400 just for a dump?

[predator]

Come on pred, theres plenty of new jap exausts(think titanium as well) being made for the 32, and the gtr cat backs are fine to use as well if you want an even wider range perhaps. The only thing that really limits you is the effort you go to getting the parts and the money you spend.

I was more getting at what Myth33 is saying above.. I know you can get them if you pay enough, but there are not too many places that sell them locally, and not too many that I know about that don't do it for stupid markups (read autobarn). I'd be happy to go for a 2nd hand ones, but trying to find a 2nd hand brand R32 exhaust is impossible (and if its not, I'd like some contacts ).. They're heavily skewed towards R33 stuff, as that is what the majority is out there.

Yeah, I have seen the Trust Titanium ..mm.. $1100 from Japan is a great price for titanium I was looking at that, but then you have to allow for import duty, GST, etc.. But then again, most local "premium" local places will charge that sort of price, and it won't be anything near titanium..

[Gts-t]

Hey pred where did you get the price from for the trust titanium catback. 1100 sounds pretty reasonable. I could sell my power extreme II and upgrade for not much change over $$$, i would really like a catback system i could pick up like it was nothing

Cheers mate

[lwells]

Well, for RB26s there is the Greddy split front/extension pipes... which probably work out cheaper, particularly if you want the CES's coated (the Greddys are stainless).

LW.

[predator]

Hey pred where did you get the price from for the trust titanium catback. 1100 sounds pretty reasonable. I could sell my power extreme II and upgrade for not much change over $$$, i would really like a catback system i could pick up like it was nothing

Where else? http://www.nengun.com/catalogue/product/575

I think its more like a titanium composite with stainless to get the looks and weight/strength of both.. droooool

[Pimp33]

I ordered a CES front/dump pipe not to far back and along with a high flow 3" cat, 7psi to 10psi, i went from 182rwkw to 209rwkw so i can definitly say it helped with the increase.

(my only greef was the flange was way off.... had to bore out the 4 of the 6 holes turning a simple exhaust swap into a turbo off pain in the a$$. although i put this down to the fact it was sent to me and not put on by them)

[GTR32]

Do Autobahn fit exhausts? Cool..... although $1400 just for a dump?

Hi Myth33;

It's dumps and engine pipes combined ie turbo outlet to cat off both huffers. Modyourcar has a pic of them on their website but they're incorrectly listed as being for R33 GTSt.

[Lethal_Locky]

Hi

I have had a full 3" stainless system fitted from CES and I am very pleased with it. The car (33 gtst) is stock apart from the exhaust so only minimal power gains, but the engine note is perfect and the best thing is it looks stockish with the twin tips.

I went with the HPC (ceramic) coated split dump pipe. The only thing i dont really like is that it stinks when it gets hot? i dont know if its the hpc stuff or something else, but the smell has only appeared after the exhaust was fitted (it goes away quite quickly as the car cools). Anyone else notice this or can explain it?

[Gts-t]

Where else? http://www.nengun.com/catalogue/product/575

I think its more like a titanium composite with stainless to get the looks and weight/strength of both.. droooool

Damn i was hoping you didnt say that, i cant get bloody brents site to ever let me log it. It pissed me off so much i started buying off Greenline and i must say they are far, far more organised AND you can get into there site!

Wont be entertaining the idea of a titanium exaust again untill the power extreme II dies in a few years maybe. Bought an alpine head deck yesterday, nuff said..

Cheers PRED

[zymotic]

Hi

I have had a full 3" stainless system fitted from CES and I am very pleased with it.  The car (33 gtst)  is stock apart from the exhaust so only minimal power gains, but the engine note is perfect and the best thing is it looks stockish with the twin tips.

I went with the HPC (ceramic) coated split dump pipe.  The only thing i dont really like is that it stinks when it gets hot?   i dont know if its the hpc stuff or something else, but the smell has only appeared after the exhaust was fitted (it goes away quite quickly as the car cools).  Anyone else notice this or can explain it?

Have u got any before and after dyno reads?

How much drop in RPM before the turbo reaches

positive boost compared to stock?

[Lethal_Locky]

Have u got any before and after dyno reads?  

How much drop in RPM before the turbo reaches  

positive boost compared to stock?

The only dyno i have had done was a tuning run after the exhuast was fitted an i got 148rwkw. Which i spose is a 10kw gain (not sure)? But i wouldnt trust it as it wasnt a proper run. Not much but thats everything stock so should be much bigger increase with more boost etc.

Boost comes on quicker, even when taking off quite steadily and changing gears @ around 2000rpm the bov will give a 'little' chirp, (3500 > 3800 rpm the boost is much stronger and feels punchier). Also the induction noise is alot more noticable at lower revs. Fuel efficency also got better by a little. Overall i am happy with it. except for the smell lol