Advice Needed - Received a Ticket for Exhaust

[HKS34R]

Hey guys,

Need some advice, legal or not, about a fine I received today just near Armidale. I was pulled over by a highway patrol car about 5 minutes east of Armidale (on my way back to Coffs Harbour). After a breath test, the officer informed me that he was not satisfied with the cannon (HKS Super Dragger) which was installed on my car.

I proceded to inform him that I have an engineer's certificate for the exhaust and that it was under the 90db limit. He informed me that he was not interested in the certificate because the law that he was fining me under was an EPA noise regulation. I also offered to show him my last defect for my exhaust which states as a requirement for the defect to be cleared:

"All modifications and components to comply with EPA and RTA regulations"

This was signed by a Sergeant of the local highway patrol here in Coffs, and the defect was cleared.

Basically he informed me that (and he showed me the act that was in question, I wish I had taken note of it), a car must not be fitted with a noise control system that is different to the one that was fitted from the factory. He said that he would not defect me, but if he saw me again with an exhaust that is not factory, he would fine me again, and again, until I revert the exhaust back to standard.

Now I'm seriously thinking about taking this to court as the fine is $200 and I will no doubt lose some valuable points off my license. On top of that I seriously want answers as to why, after spending almost $800 getting my car engineered to ADR standards, I can still get fined!!

Any thoughts or suggestions from people who are in the know or have contested fines before would be greatly appreciated. Please keep replies as helpful as possible.

Thanks in advance.

[benm]

Another power tripping cop. If you have EPA/ADR/RTA reports then tell him to suck it as he stands no chance.

[HKS34R]

Another power tripping cop. If you have EPA/ADR/RTA reports then tell him to suck it as he stands no chance.

So if I took this to court, I would stand a chance?? I've never needed to do this before, so what happens after I send the appeal away?? Do I need a lawyer, or is that over the top??

[HKS34R]

Here's the legislation:

Defective mufflers

Vehicle owners and operators should ensure that their vehicles are not fitted with defective mufflers (referred to as 'noise control equipment' in Clause 18 of the Regulation). Defective noise control equipment is defined as:

* equipment that allows the emission of more noise than the original noise control equipment fitted by the vehicle manufacturer, or

* equipment that has been modified in a way that makes it less effective than it would have been without the modification, or

* equipment that allows gas to escape from a place other than the intended exhaust outlet, or

* if the equipment concerned comprises a system of mufflers – the system contains fewer mufflers – than the original system fitted by the manufacturer.

So basically, even though I got an engineer's certificate, I can apparently get fined under the first point as my muffler allows the emission of more noise. What a crock.

I could prove that its not the muffler that allows the extra noise but the pipe size no??

[d00dz]

Interesting.. I have the same exhaust on my R33. Bought the car about 3weeks ago..

Would be interested to know the out come.

Sorry I dont have any advice for you. Good luck, hope i dont get into the same mess.

[someonestolecc]

Under that definition defective mufflers are anything non standard.

I'd be stumped if that happened to me, as there's no defect to clear. Can you show us the actual infringement or whatever that was issued? I'd be calling a traffic lawyer, I know that sounds over the top but if he's going to keep doing it and your first one gets cleared, then you'd have cause to complain that you're being harassed.

If you pay this one, and he keeps doing it, it's going to be a very very expensive ownership of your line.

Hmm what a ****wit. Just out of interest what legislation did you paste from? I'd be interested to know how it's defined that a police officer can enforce that one.

By the looks of it though if that's EPA legislation then technically, by the sounds of it any mod is illegal, but how the **** he came up with $200 is beyond me.. lawyer time.

I'd be in touch with the EPA also. If they say for example "our guideline is if it's ok by RTA then we're fine with it we interpret that as 90db or under" then you can get that and take it to court I guess.

[Guest Mashrock]

So if I took this to court, I would stand a chance?? I've never needed to do this before, so what happens after I send the appeal away?? Do I need a lawyer, or is that over the top??

seriously save some money and don use a lawyer. walk up with all valid the paper work, and give it to the judge

dont say a word.

[GTR_Legend]

I think you should be fine taking it to court.

We have been talking about this on another post.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...496#post1328496

[predator]

Well under NSW law it looks like you are screwed..

but under VIC and QLD law, aftermarket exhausts are perfectly legal, provided they comply with the legal noise limits (and emissions I guess too), both for EPA and whatever other stupid thing the cop is worrying about.

I pulled through the full EPA test in melb, with a Super Dragger II system on my old r33 no probs.

[GTS4dood]

morning all,

I have a mate that just got done for the same thing. the cop said that he was gettin fined $200 because the aftermarket exhaust wouldnt work aswell as the stock one (emissions wise)....and that was it. he is also taking it to court and said he shouldnt have too much trouble gettin off it. i'll keep you updated on what happens.

[HKS34R]

Under that definition defective mufflers are anything non standard.

Yep exactly what the cop told me. But under that definition, how did the cop know the muffler was less effective than the standard one in noise emission without a db meter??

Can you show us the actual infringement or whatever that was issued?

The short title of the offence is (if I've read it right, christ its messy): less effective noise control equipment

That's it. Not much help.

Just out of interest what legislation did you paste from? I'd be interested to know how it's defined that a police officer can enforce that one.

The legislation is the Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control) Regulation 2000. Funny thing is, its downloadable as a brochure from the EPA website. The same brochure also states that an exhaust system is not allowed over 90db. Mines not so WTF??

but how the **** he came up with $200 is beyond me..

It sets it out in the EPA brochure.

I'd be in touch with the EPA also.

I've rung my engineer and basically been told not to bother going to the EPA for answers, as its the EPA that have started this bullsh!t.

Funny thing is, its not emission related, its noise related. So even though my exhaust is under the 90db limit (76db @ idle, 86.7 @ 4500 rpm) and has been engineered as suitable for my car etc, I can still get fined. F**k that for a joke. Heads will roll!!!!!!!!

[HKS34R]

Well under NSW law it looks like you are screwed..  

but under VIC and QLD law, aftermarket exhausts are perfectly legal, provided they comply with the legal noise limits (and emissions I guess too), both for EPA and whatever other stupid thing the cop is worrying about.  

I pulled through the full EPA test in melb, with a Super Dragger II system on my old r33 no probs.

Its Federal legislation, not state. No one's safe.

[r34_skyline]

hrmm, so that means, if i were to modify my stock muffler purely for the noise then its ok ?

[usuckpoo]

hrmm, so that means, if i were to modify my stock muffler purely for the noise then its ok ?

Nope

"equipment that has been modified in a way that makes it less effective than it would have been without the modification"

[Mr R32 M-Spec]

DAMN! what a pr1ck of a cop. I've spoken to a few cops now, 1 owned a modded car. they all said they don't defect unless the person is making an arse of themselves.

I think you've been treated unfairly here mate, Something happened to a friend last year similar. he has a 180sx with huge cannon and really loud exhaust.

We got pulled into an RBT station, We'd both been drinking, did the RBT and got sent on our way after a chat with a young office about the car, he loved it.

200m down the road HWP passed in the opposite direction, ripped a burnout over double whites to stop us. then ripped my mate out of the car and started picking on it. he said qoute" If I ever see you driving this car in ________ again, I'll defect you"

he was old, grumpy and pretty much in a bad mood I'd say. his car maybe a little rough but its not unroadworthy

let us know how you go, I'd be interested in seeing it in court. did you get his details??

mark

[GIGOLO]

You Don't have to be making an arse of yourself to get defected.

When I got defected I'm sure the cop was just doing it for practice, as he was really unsure how to fill out the form and made heaps of mistakes.

[Mr R32 M-Spec]

SOrry mate you must have taken it the wrong way. I said from the police I know and I've talked to, they don't defect unless its obviously dangerous to the public or the person is really just being a d$%$#head

mark

[Babylon]

man im getting a exhaust in 2-3weeks this is not good news

this thread has totally confused me and turned me off from buying a exhaust

Good luck with that mate and let us know how you go!!

[carlo]

I have only ever seen like 4 stock skyline exhausts.. hahahaha.

i would just change the exhaust tip to something less obvious.. a two barrel style system. Just change the rear muffler and if he pulls you over tell him its stock. Like he would know any different

[GRUNTN]

Hey guys,

Need some advice, legal or not, about a fine I received today just near Armidale. I was pulled over by a highway patrol car about 5 minutes east of Armidale (on my way back to Coffs Harbour). After a breath test, the officer informed me that he was not satisfied with the cannon (HKS Super Dragger) which was installed on my car.

I proceded to inform him that I have an engineer's certificate for the exhaust and that it was under the 90db limit. He informed me that he was not interested in the certificate because the law that he was fining me under was an EPA noise regulation. I also offered to show him my last defect for my exhaust which states as a requirement for the defect to be cleared:

"All modifications and components to comply with EPA and RTA regulations"

This was signed by a Sergeant of the local highway patrol here in Coffs, and the defect was cleared.

Basically he informed me that (and he showed me the act that was in question, I wish I had taken note of it), a car must not be fitted with a noise control system that is different to the one that was fitted from the factory. He said that he would not defect me, but if he saw me again with an exhaust that is not factory, he would fine me again, and again, until I revert the exhaust back to standard.

Now I'm seriously thinking about taking this to court as the fine is $200 and I will no doubt lose some valuable points off my license. On top of that I seriously want answers as to why, after spending almost $800 getting my car engineered to ADR standards, I can still get fined!!

Any thoughts or suggestions from people who are in the know or have contested fines before would be greatly appreciated. Please keep replies as helpful as possible.

Thanks in advance.

i dont think u loose points for a defect do u just a fine.agree with carlo