Revenue for Road Works.

[Snowman]

hey - the giant french fries had to be payed for as well!

[GTRgeoff]

I can understand the concept of getting the benefit without having to pay for it. Unfortunately I cannot condone it. It would be like swapping rego from one skyline to the other to save on rego, but just to clarify, some of you guys (everyone who voted for camera fines) condone theft right? That's essentially what is proposed. Others pay for the infrastructure and if you are smart enough to you avoid the revenue raising. Do you really sleep at night? That's just downright Un-Australian and you should be ashamed.

Simply by raising the issue here, running a poll with limited options and people voting without energising some grey matter you can lead the government to start thinking they have SAU support. I'm no conspiracy theorist but who knows who reads this site in the interests of "getting in touch with the people".

Tolls I have no issue with, except where the government straight out lies. (Another reason to bail from Vic - every time I get posted here there is some blunder to pay for)

As for infrastructure, the roads in Brisbane simply shame Melbourne for quality of traffic flow. For christ's sake run Hoddle St straight over the top like the major trafficway it is then work outwards.

Anyway, the core of my argument is the increasing govt addiction to speed revenue, driving them to "tougher measures" to obtain more funds when they clearly know the program doesn't save lives. When will they stop? Their equipment is not infallible, their employees utilise it incorrectly far too often and their magistrates are simply too uneducated in the technology to rule in favour of the defendent.

If you want to take the gamble, Victoria is welcome to it but at least put up a few more options for the poll. Major infrastructure is everyones responsibility, and the govt gets more than enough money without impacting the economy with this revenue raising method.

[TurboX]

I can understand the concept of getting the benefit without having to pay for it. Unfortunately I cannot condone it. It would be like swapping rego from one skyline to the other to save on rego, but just to clarify, some of you guys (everyone who voted for camera fines) condone theft right?  

For christ's sake run Hoddle St straight over the top like the major trafficway it is then work outwards.

Geoff, we get your point and if we had polies like you we might be in a better position on issues like this.

Although it felt like theft when I got 3klm's over on a speed camera, it was expected when I got nailed on a country road at 20 over.

Your position on this issue is obviously a passionate one and I admire your stand.

I suspect not many when taking the poll put as much thought into it as you have.

But like most, I just go about my daily life thinking there is nothing much I can do about the current situation as it exists regarding government policies on speed cameras.

What can WE do to change it?

Also what can WE do to stop the re-engineering of the Flinders St. Overpass on Kingsway into another damn set of traffic lights - UNBELIEVABLE!!

[GTRgeoff]

I know it sounds a bit over the top, what I've posted, but folks are just not motivated anymore and even try to see the benefits of government corrruption.

What can we do? We get involved and tell the government they are wrong

Try www.roadsense.com.au as a starting point

Get on the forum at http://www.roadlegaloz.com.au/phpbb/index.php

Sign up at http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RoadSenseOz/

Educate ourselves and work together to stop government theft. http://sense.bc.ca/research.htm

Don't whine about the fine you just got, but discuss how you may have been wrongly cited.

If you speed by a clearly irresponsible margin then TOUGH (BTW Italy increased their limits to 150 with their Transport Minister stating that faster drivers are more alert, safer drivers.)

You don't have to be passionate, just believe in justice and majority rule.

[ferni]

Well said Jeff, exactly my opinion. Hadn't seen the roadsense.com.au website, but its good to see what i think isn't just my imagination.

[NickR33]

I get so sick of the Aust governments closed minded attitude... governments all over the world face the same problems everyday and we refuse to look at others for inspiration!

and I am against large arterial highways being built everywhere... it is a common fact that widening roads and building more highways INCREASES traffic and pollution... just look at some of the messes in America! (esp california!)

people in general just don't care anymore, we get upset for like 2 weeks, Johnny says "yes we will look into it, we will do something about it etc etc" and then it is forgotten... they treat us like idiots and we let them...

it will never be right to replace police with privatised cameras, it sets a dangerous precedent... (anyone here read george orwell's 1984?)

[_IrIsH_]

oh smart man andrew good question.

i personally would rather they do it from the camera's. only so that you can have a chance of not getting

caught and hence not having to pay for it.

although there is a limit as to how far this can facilitate the extensions.

and as people on the east side bitch about a toll way ( even tho we took it on the chin on west side ) there really isnst much way in which we can pay for such things without adding a tax to it.

so i guess eventually fuel will end up being taxed more heavily.

hope that made sense.

[[email protected]]

Well said Jeff, exactly my opinion. Hadn't seen the roadsense.com.au website, but its good to see what i think isn't just my imagination.

I agree 100% with Jeff and have recently joined the Roadsense group.

It is the only way to stop this bullying State Government.

The new budget shows that they are expecting lots more revenue this Fin Year.

It's time to make a stand about rediculous laws which are not based on fact.

Sorry to get political but enough is enough.

There are so many different speed zones etc in Vic that it is laughable...

[Bass Junky]

Look, as several have said, I wouldn't have a problem with speed cameras if they were fairly implemented and the revenue from them went back to the roads.

Hell, we could have paid off both Citylink and the new Eastlink with the revenue from speed cameras over the last few years.

NOTE: Eastlink will cost $800 million, but the Victoria people will be billed $2.5 BILLION over the next 25 years so that a private company could do it. Surely that extra 1.7 Billion could be better spent in the general Victorian Economy over those years, insted into the coffers of some development company and their shareholders.

That's where the system is flawed. Money raised on the roads should go to the roads.

the government already taxes more than 48 cents of every dollar in fuel that we spend. Another note, it's a percentage of the price of fuel that the government take, therefore over the last year with the high fuel prices, the government has had a significant windfall, about 20% more for 12 months. That's a LOT extra.

But the thing that shits me more than anything is the fact that the Bracks government pays the private operators of the speed cameras a bonus fi they make over a certain amount of revenue in a month. Now you can't tell anyone that because of that speed cameras aren't being used for the wrong purposes.... But I Digress....

I hate speed cameras, even though I very rarely get booked by one.

BASS OUT

[heartbrkr]

See thats the catch. From what I understood from the last budget thingy was that they have budgetted $500m of the $1b for the roads from speed camera's. So they need to put lots of camera's in dodgy places and have stupid tollerances in order to get that $500mil.

If they put the tollerences back to 10% and only put camera's in black spots chances are they would only raise say $100mil or less. Its a stupidly high amount of cases of fines in the region of above 3km/hr but less than 10%.

So to raise that extra $400mil they might have to increase fuel taxes. So this was my point. I think I'd still prefer to run the gauntlet and have the revenue from fines than having to pay a lot more for fuel every day.

James mentioned revenue from Rego's. There is somewhere in the world where rego fee's are based upon power to weight. The larger the more you have to pay each year for rego's. That would suck - especially if your leewang! LOL.

My friend told me up in Darwin, you pay a higher rego for V8s etc.

Prefer a user pays via fuel. If you need to drive and use the roads, then pay for them. So long as the money is put back where people are using them.

As for speed cameras, just dont speed.

As for road works? they totally stuffed the lights around the corner from me. black spot my arse. Now i dont even understand all the arrows.

[GTRgeoff]

That's where the system is flawed.  Money raised on the roads should go to the roads.

the government already taxes more than 48 cents of every dollar in fuel that we spend.  Another note, it's a percentage of the price of fuel that the government take, therefore over the last year with the high fuel prices, the government has had a significant windfall, about 20% more for 12 months.  That's a LOT extra.

But the thing that shits me more than anything is the fact that the Bracks government pays the private operators of the speed cameras a bonus fi they make over a certain amount of revenue in a month.  Now you can't tell anyone that because of that speed cameras aren't being used for the wrong purposes....  But I Digress....

Pete, just a little off the mark mate. The speed cameras are a road safety initiative, so the entirity of the income should go to road safety, driver training and education, not capital roadworks which is where Snowie got it wrong in his argument/options.

Yes the govt makes more from fuel as the price goes up, but that's user pays revenue and should go to roadworks.

As far as a bonus for the camera operators. That's just corrupt.

Also a quick point, do you all realise that only around 2% of accidents occur at over the posted speed limit? A speed camera can't help the people who have an accident under the limit, even if they are driving too fast for the conditions and that's about training and education. We address that by promoting driver ed and skid pan sessions. So in our way we are more pro-active and responsible than the govt. Sad isn't it?