6 litre hsv

[andrewwr32]

I don't think its every day that a pair of light-mod GT-Rs get chased down, in the wet, by a dead stock Hyundai Elantra that's carrying a driver and his girlfriend.....

Maybe the guy is that awesome (god-like?), more likely IMO those guys kinda sucked or were too afraid to push their expensive cars...

But a Hyundai Elantra? Come on...

If someone knows how to push a GT-R races one of those... forget it... That's plain and simple physics...

[andrewwr32]

I figured, slotting a pushrod V8 into a GT-R would insult Skyline and Commodore fans.

Personally, I'd want to race them. Oh, and sAfrican American at first too

[andrewwr32]

How do you guys find this statement, I found on another forum, comparing the LS2 and RB26DETT, most people claim that the LS2 is better than an RB26, heres the post:

QUOTE:

anyway, back to the engines themselves: the RB26DETT and LS2 are internal combusties... and when all is said and done, sorry nissan folk, but the LS2 has more "quote, unquote" - POTENTIAL.

It's bigger. It has more cylinders. It is a larger air compressor.

When it comes down to it, that's the balls of it buddies. How much air can you push thru that motor. The LS2, after strapping on the induction aids like turbos and superchargers, will push MORE AIR than an RB26DETT.

It's BIGGER for goodness sakes! Almost 3 friggin times the displacement!

Sure its got a lower RPM range, but thats mainly because its BIGGER!

My electric toothbrush revs out to 15,000 rpm.... not because it is a feat of engineering excellence, but because the thing is bloody 1 cm wide! And again, the 25,000hp engine powering an oceanliner is lucky to get 8rpm... because it is the size of a small building.

It's all relative.

The Nissan Skyline GT-R wins because it is a smart package with an adequate drivetrain - by adequate I mean its strong enough to do the job and it has good aftermarket support. PERIOD.

The LS1 and LS2, by itself, when comparing it to the "engine only" RB26DETT, will be superior since its nigh on 6 litres of air-pushing power every 4 strokes. So if you want to win a battle on paper then sure, the LS2 has more potential.

But of course that is just stating the obvious.

Question: Which air compressor has more potential?

Answer: Duh.... umm.... the BIGGER air compressor?!

CAPTAIN FRIGGIN OBVIOUS TO THE RESCUE AGAIN!

END QUOTE

Obviously written by someone who knows less than me about the insides of an engine. You can boost the shit out of an RB26 on stock internals. Try the same with an LS2 and the forces on the crankshaft will destroy it and/or everything connected to it. Oh right, modify the internals - in that case do the same with the RB26. RB26 doesn't have potential - what a fkn crock. Of course it's a lot lighter too, surely. See any LS2s taking road-speed records?

Anyway, let him win his paper-racing records. Probably owns a Honda.

End of pointless rant.

:Pimp2:

[scathing]

Maybe the guy is that awesome (god-like?), more likely IMO those guys kinda sucked or were too afraid to push their expensive cars...

But a Hyundai Elantra? Come on...

An R32 GT-R is an expensive car? Not these days......

The guys didn't suck (they were running consistent 1:12's in the dry, which isn't bad for a primarily street driver. They didn't time themselves in the wet) but he was just more experienced and probably a naturally better driver. Doing track work in the wet is a lot different to doing it in the dry.

I'm sure that if my colleague was in a GT-R, everyone would spend their time watching the rear view mirrors for this guy's approach rather than out the front windshield watching him slowly pull away, but if we're talking about "drivers running down cars in an 'old shitbox' that are heaps slower than the competitors", that was a prime example.

[scathing]

Obviously written by someone who knows less than me about the insides of an engine. You can boost the shit out of an RB26 on stock internals.

RB26 doesn't have potential - what a fkn crock. Of course it's a lot lighter too, surely. See any LS2s taking road-speed records?

End of pointless rant.

You're slightly missing his point, though. He's not saying the RB26 doesn't have potential. He's saying that, in the end, there's no replacement for displacement. Simple physics.

Its not fair to compare an FI engine and a NA engine when you're talking about "potential", since its not a level playing field. And, in the end, if you keep the induction the same the bigger the displacement the more air and fuel you can cram in to a cylinder.

Run an RB26DE against an LS2 and do NA tweaks, and in the end the LS2 is going to make more power.

If you level the playing field the other way and run turbos on the LS2......APS is blowing 9psi into a stock internaled LS1 and making close to 400rwkW, while still having the car noise and emissions compliant. Give it another 300cc's of capacity and keep everything else the same, and cracking the 400rwkW mark should be a non-event.

How many GT-Rs are getting around making 400kW at the treads and completely road legal?

I don't know enough about RB26's to know if they'll make that kind of power with the stock internals, but assuming they can I don't doubt that a TT LS2's power delivery will be a lot smoother and more progressive (given the relatively low boost and big displacement), making it an easier car to drive.

Another thing: boost does not necessarily equal power. The standard SR20DET in an S14 makes 147kW at the flywheel on 7-8psi. One of my mates used to have an SR20DET making 165rwkW at 6psi. And we all know that once you exceed a turbo's efficiency threshold, you can keep winding up the boost but you'll get paltry increases at best.

How is it "clear" that an RB is lighter than the LS2? The RB is a cast iron inline 6 whereas the LS2 is an all alloy V8. Inlines also tend to be heavier than their V counterparts. Mercedes Benz dropped their cast iron inline 6 for a cast iron V6 for weight reasons, and dropped the V6 for an alloy V8 for the same reasons again.

And considering the LS2 has only been in production for around a year, how is it surprising that people haven't unlocked its potential and strapped it in to cars to try and achieve whatever automotive records are out there with the same frequency a 15 year old engine has?

As for the LS1, there are plenty of American tuners (Callaway, Lingenfelter, etc) making big power and doing impressive things with those engines.

I will agree with you on the "pointless" part, though.

[ferni]

scathing: good points. 400rwkw on stock internals? wow, wonder for how long, i know the LS1 can't do it without internal work.

[Starionturbo]

Never Have I read a thread with so much crap on it! I woudnt even bother give my opinion of it. Two totally different cars in every aspect, and hearing guys giving comparisons of who got munched by who,or whos building the fastest, or wanking on about how much potential a LS2 has, some of it is bloody utter bullshit/ridiculous.

Maybe you should start up a FVP typhoon VS 6 liter HSV clubby - itd be much better.

The Commodores a great car, they have come a long way in terms of performance, but in every other aspect - you cant go past the european and Japanese equivelants.

Ohh yeah, and Id get myself a nice black 6 speed typhoon as a Family car any day!!!!

[Vuster]

Maybe a moderator can close this thread to make it less painful for you to read.

Typhoons are great, and if I was in the market for one I would reconsider it again. I did have one on order late last year but with the bad performance reviews and clutch issues I resorted to cancelling. Now all has been fixed, including performance so it should be a great car.

[Roy]

You only have to have a look at what the Corvettes, Camaros, Transams etc are doing in the states and you will soon see that the engine is a good thing. Give me Lingenfleter turbo kit (i suppose APS are doing it now) and the thing would tear up the road:)

So what if they use pushrods, they are all alloy and being pushrod makes them reasonably compact. Hourses for courses, the RB26 is a good thing but at the end of the day they are only 2.6L and like any engine costs big money to modify. If your smart anything can be quick, lol there was a 2.6L Astron powered Sigma running low 11s:(

[Starionturbo]

Yeah, the Typhoons were initially problematic, but have seemed to iron out the problems. They are not a bad car, and I must say I havent seen too many at all, I think a lot of potential buyers were scared off.

[Bluprint]

Yeah, the Typhoons were initially problematic, but have seemed to iron out the problems. They are not a bad car, and I must say I havent seen too many at all, I think a lot of potential buyers were scared off.

I've had the opposite, I see heaps around Canberra

[TracidTrax]

may i be the only one to say: y sell the s15? and buy...

[scathing]

scathing: good points. 400rwkw on stock internals? wow, wonder for how long, i know the LS1 can't do it without internal work.

One thing I've noticed about APS is, because of their target market (well heeled but not the "I'll fix whatever breaks" kinda people, who just want more power in a kit that they know is legal, rather than developing a unique project car), that they'll tune conservatively.

They still make reasonable numbers, but not as much what other people offer for the money. I'm specifically thinking of the S15 kits they offered, which were pretty pricey for the mods (and power output) you got. The difference being all the mods were engineered to work cohesively, and you know after installation the car would breeze through scrutineering for an engineer's cert.

I don't know about the LS1 kit specifically, but I do keep in contact with a guy who's got the 350Z APS TT kit. His has been a trouble-free life on an engine series that has a reputation internationally for breaking internals when too much boost is applied.

[Mandingo]

hmm yes i remember there S15 kit (work mate had it installed before going bigger )

They can justify the extra cost for the luxury of knowing its street legal.

[Vuster]

may i be the only one to say: y sell the s15? and buy...

I think you're the only one asking because the answer has been already supplied.

I didn't get rid of it because I didn't like it. I still admire the car when I see it in the street coz it's so sleek and light. You should ask the owner of www.200sx.org why he sold his 200 and got a XR6T. Basically I need to tow my boat. It's that simple.

[pentae]

So typical of the v8 bogans to compare their 2004/5 technology to our engine from 1989 and in the end conclude that "Bigger is Better".. Knuckle draggers.

[Roy]

Bigger is better though. Im pretty sure that there was something in the Grp A rules under which the RB26 was built that stipulated either boost or weight restrictions would have been incurred if they ran say 2.8 or even 3.0L.

So Nissan built the engine to a set of rules. Just like when they went racing with the R390 heaven forbid they used a larger displacement engine, and oh my god it was a V8:)

Anyway, thats not the point, in my eyes what is the point is Nissan at the moment are stuffing around with an NA 3.5L V6, they are wandering around lost in the woods with no idea what they are doing. Sure its not that bad a thing, but they better hurry up, Honda and Toyota have some serious machinery in the pipeline, and Nissan may be stuck building RVs:(

[Cubes]

So typical of the v8 bogans to compare their 2004/5 technology to our engine from 1989 and in the end conclude that "Bigger is Better".. Knuckle draggers.

I must be a knuckle dragger.

The 3ltr rips the 2.6/2.5 and 2.0 ltr a new asshole, lol well it will once it has a decent turbo on it.

[monaroCountry]

Theres alot of potential in both LS1 and LS2. Some guys are already running with a TT setup. This vid shows how much fun can be had with a twin turbo V8 running on 6.5ps1.

Peter from APS informs that

 

Originally Posted by 05GTOM6 

I would think that with that much power, if you were to put some tires that hook, it will break. But yea that car is sick what was it set at in the vid? Was it the same as the 522 rwhp pull, or with lower boost?

You might be right about that <B>though the drive train has proven to be more robust that first thought</B>.  Here's a power and torque graph of the LS2 twin turbo, hope you enjoy. Now at 530 WHP at 6.5 psi, more power to come in the near future. 

BTW the cars running on stock internals. Very sleek and is an ultimate sleeper.

http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/ls1/ls2/aps_gto.wmv

(Warning Vid is 30MB)

[monaroCountry]

Again from Peter

All good fun and it's worthwhile knowing what amount of abuse the stock drivetrain and engine will handle on a day to day basis - does that sound like a reasonable excuse for the vid to you ?   

Will plan to produce a vid at the track in the near future, in the interim how does a 10.29 at 133 mph sound to you? This ET and MPH was from an intercooled twin turbo A4 LS2 on drag radials, not a perfect 1/4 mile run by any means though very respectable for it's first run at the track.

Absolutely 100% correct, there's no traction until third gear (and don't unweight the rear of the car in third gear as the rear end jut goes up in smoke) and even then the GTO struggles for traction.