Adjustable Camber (Not Bushes)

[eXc]

Hey Guys,

I couldn't find a thread with the info, Probably cause I don't know the terminology, so feel free to link me if it has been discussed.

I need to get my camber adjusted both front and rear. Using bushes from whiteline etc are only going to get it *just*right with not much(any?) room for changing it more so. I was thinking if I am gonna spend the money, I would be better getting adjustable arms (if they exist for 32's) instead of bushes.

My car - 89 R32 GTST 4dr, it is standard except when it got here from Japan, I found it had HKS springs (lower) which puts hige negative camber on it.

So, my questions

1) Do they exist?

2) What is the correct term for them so I can search for them.

3) How much adjustment do they allow?

4) What are the brand names that sell them?

5) Where do I get them?

Thanks

Chris

Current Settings

Front

--------

camber = left = -2.08 right = -1.49

Castor = left 5.06 right 6.17

Toe = 0

------

Rear

-------

Camber = left -2.29 right -1.49

Toe = left 0 right -0.8 out

[someonestolecc]

There have already been threads about this - try searching for SydneyKid's posts then looking at the title that suggests suspension settings.

I have adjustable camber plates on the front - I saw some on ebay for cheap (second hand cusco i think) recently.

For the rear I have a 'camber kit', I don't know what else it's called but yeah they're just arms really and I bought mine from garage-13.

[Sydneykid]

Around 1 degreee negative camber on the front is my suggestion for a road car. The Whiteline camber adjustable bushes will give you that.

Around 0.5 degree negative camber on the rear is my suggestion for a road car. Two sets (inner upper and inner outer) of Whiteline camber adjustable bushes will give you that.

While you are doing that, I STRONGLY recommend a set of caster bushes as well, they need more caster badly.

The bottom line is, if you can't achieve those settings with the Whiteline bushes, then the car is too low. It is below the appropriate setting for good handling let alone acceptable ride. Check the centre of wheel to guard measurements, if they are below 350 mm, then its time to think about raising it.

Hope that helps:cheers:

[eXc]

Thanks guys.

SK I don't think it's too low, It's one of the highest I have seen! haha. I will measure it tonight tho.

So you don't think I'd be better off getting adjustable arms over bushes? I thoguth it would just allow more options later down the track.

[Sydneykid]

Thanks guys.

SK I don't think it's too low, It's one of the highest I have seen! haha. I will measure it tonight tho.

So you don't think I'd be better off getting adjustable arms over bushes? I thoguth it would just allow more options later down the track.

I am not a fan of sphericals in a road car, they wear out very fast in that environment, knock like a bustard and cost as much as a new arm to replace. Plus they add quite a bit to the NVH (noise, vibration & harshness).

If it is trully high, then it must have badly worn bushes in both sides and both front and rear to have that much camber. That is unlikely, because they are so even, generally the LHS bushes wear much faster than the RHS. It will be interesting to see what you find when you get into it.

[eXc]

ok, so i measured tonight.

Front height from centre of wheel to gaurd = 330mm

Rear height from centre of wheel to gaurd = 340mm

Which is below the 350 you reccomended. So what how is this going to efffect the car? I wasn't planning on buying new springs.....

[eXc]

SydneyKid.

Do you think I should look at rasing the car before anything else, or is it going to be ok as is? What are the effects going to be with it being too low? It is fine to drive..I am yet to scrape out on anything.

Can you share with me the effects of having the car at this height. Assuming I fix the camber/Caster....what will be the problem with the hieght?

Cheers

Chris

[eXc]

bump....SK see above plz

[Sydneykid]

SydneyKid.

Do you think I should look at rasing the car before anything else, or is it going to be ok as is? What are the effects going to be with it being too low? It is fine to drive..I am yet to scrape out on anything.

Can you share with me the effects of having the car at this height. Assuming I fix the camber/Caster....what will be the problem with the hieght?

Cheers

Chris

Hi Chris, sorry for the delay in responding, race meetings back to back are killing me.

Nisan designed the suspension geometry to work through a range of movement, when the static height is too low there are a number of problems;

1. There is not sufficient suspension travel to absorb bumps, so you get damage, cracked suspension mounting points, rapidly wearing bushes, broken windscreens etc

2. The dynamic suspension geometry goes out of its design parameters. You can set the static geometry (camber, caster, toe) so it is OK. But as soon as you compress or extend the suspension those settings change. Nissan designed in changes in geometry by its selection of mounting points for the suspension arms, an example being camber change. As you compress the suspension you get slightly more negative camber. So as you go around tighter corners the car leans more (compresses the suspension) and the extra negative camber helps the car maintain a good tyre contact patch. When you lower it too much, the suspension starts to go posiitive camber instead of negative, and you loose a lot of tyre contact patch.

3. You loose power, the drive shafts are not designed to operate at that angle and the CV's soak up more power. They also wear out much faster.

I can give you plenty more examples, front and rear toe change bump steer, steering axis inclination, loss of anti dive and anti squat etc etc. We spend a lot of time checking suspension geometry to determine ideal settings on Production and Improved Production race cars. There are optimum heights for all cars, where if you go below that, you end up with basket case of problems.

The reality is low is slow for a whole lot of reasons.

[eXc]

Alright, Thanks mate.

I just gotta decide what brand bushes to run now.

Without changing the springs, I can't run Whiteline front, cause they only allow 0.5 degree change. And I need closer to 1 degree.

The rear I could run whiteline tho. I can get 2 kits which will allow the adjustment I need.

Pedders said with their kit they can get 1.5 degree change on the front (they wanted to aim for -0.5) , and 1.5 degree change on the rear.

Is the stuff pedders use any good? Any need for me to fork out the extra for whitline? I'll have to see what noltec have.

Cheers

Chris

[eXc]

Talking to Noltec, these are my options from them.

Option 1 Total $1000 ish parts ex GST

N52088 - Adjustable upper arm $502.86 + GST

N82481 - Caster Kit $180.00 + GST

N62544 - Rear camber/toe kit (3 kits req.) $91.43 + GST per kit or $240 + GST

Option 2 Total $1550 ish parts ex GST

N52088 - Adjustable upper arm $502.86 + GST

N82089 - Adjustable radius rod $630.00 + GST

N62544 - Rear camber/toe kit (3 kits req.) $91.43 + GST per kit or $240 + GST

They also recommended these...can someone tell me what this will do for me?

N92447 - Subframe mounts $193.60 + GST

Those prices is higher than what pedders would do it for using their own parts. Is there any reason to not use pedders?

Whiteline Option - Total $671 ish Parts

KCA331 - Front Radius Rod Bush +/- 0.75 deg $117

KCA336 - Front Camber Adj Kit Upper Camber Arm +/- 0.5 deg $290

KCA347 - Rear Camber Adj Kit Upper Camber Arm +/- 1.5 deg with 2 kits $264

[Sydneykid]

My 20 cents....

For your purposes I think the Noltec upper arms are an unnnecessary extra expense, the Whiteline adjustable bushes will do fine.

For your purposes I think the Noltec adjustable radius rods are an unnnecessary extra expense, the Whiteline adjustable bushes will do fine.

Subframe mounts, sometimes called "pineapples", stiffen up the rear sub frame (it is mounted to the chassis on rubber bushes) and remove most of that vauge rear end feeling.

[eXc]

ahh pineapples. now that makes sense Why don't they call them that ! haha

I figured the notlec stuff would be kinda a waste.

Well it's only an extra $100ish to go with whiteline over pedders stuff, so I guess I should do that

Do you think it's a good idea to look at different springs first? What springs do you usually recommned to people with stock suspension? Keep in mind I am on a budget, it has been suggested i could get king springs for $200ish all 4....that is do-able. Is it worth looking at new shocks as well? Or is that going to be too substantial cost?

I will have to buy another standard shock anyways, cause one of the tops is stuffed, and if I take it off I'll have to grind the nut off.

[Sydneykid]

Whiteline do springs for Skylines, generally cheaper than Kings:cheers:

[siksII]

200 for new king springs is very cheap u should get them if u can get them for that much.

whiteline are around 350 for r33s retail.

[eXc]

as I said, it was just suggested to me by a friend (that's what his cost for a cordia) I will check it out when I get the money tho

[klys]

as you can see, I have a bad camber problem can anyone point me to a relatively cheap solution in order to get that camber back to -1 deg.

I could buy adjustable, but damn 400$+

thanks for any help

oh here's a pic of my current set up, someone thought they might be nismo's

Also what is suposed to be the length?? mine are 6" long I'd like longer

[Baz]

Mate that is a seriously bad camber problem on the front. What springs/ride height are you using? First thing I would be looking for is worn bushes, rods and balljoints. A camber issue like that would not be due to solely the lowering of a car. I would be if surprised the tyres have lasted longer than 6 months of driving. Rear camber isn't that great but probably due to the combo of larger diametre rims/tyres, tein suspension and a lower ride height if you have that. Toe also needs to be adjusted on the front but thats simpily done in most cases by adjusting the tie rods, same with rear toe (search the forum for optimum toe specs)

I would suggest more things but after a big night I'm struggling to think atm

[Duncan]

The control arms and bushes look stock to me.....but $400 or not you might need to go adjustable to fix it.....

[klys]

thanks for the replies.

there is no play at all with the wheel when jacked, I have juste replaced the tie rod ends my self(which explains the bad toe ) I indeed have tein, but I wouldn't know how to specify height, raising or droping height doesn't affect the camber with this type of suspension I was told.

I mesured from bottom of blocking ring to under the lip(the straight part at 2 5/8 inches I think.

anyone have a lentgh on the upper link?? If yours is also 6" long, it means I have another problem :|

Also ride height on the left side seems... quite lower even though I brought both springs to the exact same level... could the coil be finished? and I don't know the spring rates

(I got the car like that) hehe :werd: