Another Dyno thread

[Roy]

One thing i have noticed is that with every year cars seem to be making more power depsite the same mods and the cars are getting older:confused:

Is it possible the reason RB25s are makign 200rwkws and RB20s readily making 160rwkws is because software upgrades with the Dyno Dynamixcs?

They would seem to read that little bit higher then previously. Once upun a time from an RB25 180-190rwkws was a good result with 15psi and PFc with rhe usual bolt ons. Now with less boost and sometimes std ECU they make more power?!?!?!

Does anyone know whats covered by software upgrades with Dyno Dynamics etc?

[R31Nismoid]

its shootout mode most of the time

the correction factor is gives for a Turbo car as opposed to an N/A car is incorrect at times

[Sydneykid]

its shootout mode most of the time

the correction factor is gives for a Turbo car as opposed to an N/A car is incorrect at times

The atmospheric corrections are the same, so which "correction factors" are incorrect?

[R31Nismoid]

Has someone got the DD book/guidelines thing that states where the temp sensor is to go.

wanna get the wording

[Cubes]

I would agree, its got a lot to do with the positioning of the inlet temp sensor.

My R32 was making 164rwkw 3years ago on RPM's dyno, back then a R33's with a PFC & 11 made 190rwkw, threw a cam gear on it and it made 206rwkw.

There was another R32 that made 174rwkw on 15psi with a microtech.

Back then I don't remember any inlet temp sensors though.

Has any one noticed NZ tends to have inflated figures, more so than around here?

[paulr33]

im gonna jump up and agree, my rb25 that manages 0 to 100 under 5 seconds only gets 170rwkw only 2 seperate dynos'. ice performance checked it out and its fine. making the normal amount of power. powerfc, [email protected], cooler, zorst, dump/front/cat 3" so the usual mods. however ive seen stacks of cars with just safc or remap hit 195 all the time. so either the dyno's are on crack or shootout mode is off the scale or my tune is shit. or something is wrong with my engine. now im not trying to be the "winge winge rb25" guy sure my power less so be it, there must be a reason surely.

now i know that an rb25 with safc (or remap) and exchaust cooler may make 195rwkw at max but im sure my 170rwkw max top figure should out acceralate the safc tune as the powerfc tune is more aggressive, well theoritcally speaking it should be? i guess the only resolution is a dyno day and do change any of the dyno settings for the day. the freak "ecu" thoeory has been thrown around a bit and i remember sk shooting it down a few times, theres always something that is the reason for the "freak" power output. maybe servicing history or some crap has made the engine stronger. my rb25 is on 120,000 odd so i wouldnt call it "old old" but it certainly isn't new.

[Cubes]

Paul,

3 years ago when I had the 32 making 164rwkw a friends R33 with a fmic, exhaust 13psi & Safc made 173rwkw, or was it 178rwkw.. Not sure it was one of the two.

Remember peak power means jack, 'maybe' yours happens to dip that last few hundred rpm that doesn't get you the extra few rwkw's BUT the mid range is still there so the car performs just like any other making more power.

[paulr33]

Paul,

3 years ago when I had the 32 making 164rwkw a friends R33 with a fmic, exhaust 13psi & Safc made 173rwkw, or was it 178rwkw.. Not sure it was one of the two.

yeah now that seems fairly good or reasonable power. when i brought my powerfc and fitted evc and cooler i thought it was almost guaranteed 200rwkw easily. when i got 172kw damn was i disappointed then i took it for a fang and geez did it rip off the line. the driving experience was stacks better and it absolutely flew, well comparing to the stock ecu, stock cooler, stock boost setup anyway. going by whats been tossed around and "dyno runs" i could technically just change back to the stock ecu, run boost just under the airflow/boost level cut, i think a smidge under 12psi and run a dyno and technically is should be 180 judging by the benchmark set by "freak ecu's". granted i dont have safc so its not a direct comparison. my stock power was 141 so ive jumped up 30rwkw with

cooler

powerfc

boost @ 0.80bar

front, dump, hiflow cat all at 3"

most people measure 10rwkw just from changing the cooler, but i dont see how you can gain power without adding any more "stuff" if you have 1.0 stuff and you change component abc then you don't just gain 1.1 stuff. sk said it a few times you can gain power at the same boost. boost is a reference to air resistance. so fit a bigger turbo housing, or extractors, or bigger exhaust then you gain more power at the same boost. of course my example is not correct cos its a bullshit example but you get the idea. take off resistance you gain power without "more boost". an rb25 stock turbo at 13psi makes 170rwkw, a gt28rs at 13psi will make more power even tho its the same boost. volume does not equal pressure, they are two different things. i guess the gt-rs would make more power as its compressor and exhaust housings are bigger therefore less resistance. boost being a measure of resistance. less resistance = more power. so anyway after all that crapping on i dont know what the deal is. would love to find out.

[paulr33]

Paul,

3 years ago when I had the 32 making 164rwkw a friends R33 with a fmic, exhaust 13psi & Safc made 173rwkw, or was it 178rwkw.. Not sure it was one of the two.

Remember peak power means jack, 'maybe' yours happens to dip that last few hundred rpm that doesn't get you the extra few rwkw's BUT the mid range is still there so the car performs just like any other making more power.

*** not meaning to make examples of people or anything. i took 4 other non powerfc or aftermarket ecu dyno runs from the rb25det dyno thread and put them below ***

heres my latest dyno. after powerfc knocking fix.

my peak power goes between 130km/h to 180km/h redline of 4th.

my max power looks to be much more than the safc/stock ecu combo's below.

**** it i dont my max power is lower. my average power is much better than the non powerfc configurations (4 below).

http://members.dodo.com.au/paul/pics/dyno/172rwkw.jpg

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/at...achmentid=25688

203rwkw

mods

3" exhaust

pod filter

10psi boost

safcII

FMIC

BP Ultimate 98

stock standard turbo

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/at...achmentid=25736

185.5kW 93 series 1

Engine management - Stock ECU

Boost ran - 0.9 Bar

Turbo - Stock

Fuel used - Optimax

Stock all other internals.

Apexi AVCR

Hybrid Front Mount

3" Exhuast from dump pipe back

Pod Filter

HKS SSQ BOV

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/at...achmentid=25752

1994 R33 GTS25t

Avcr - 0.8bar

Full zorst

Trust IC

Standard Turbo

Standard Ecu - no tuning or piggybacks

Automatic gearbox

180.3 Rwkw

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/at...achmentid=25791

1995 gts-t

Stock turbo

pfc

gtr fuel pump

adj fuel press reg

3'' catback exhaust

ebc

Pod filter+partion

Small Hks front mount

Slipping stock clutch,leak in header/exhaust gasket.Cant remember what boost it ran...

12:1 afr's

182.0rwkw

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/at...achmentid=26012

Iv got 172rwkw S1 R33 Auto

Stock turbo

Stock cooler

10 psi

Cat back zorst

Pod

Auto Tranny

[paulr33]

maybe im just the odd one out and mine makes less power. i dont think theres many who get under 180 with powerfc tuned. oh well, no dramas. it still fangs its ass off

[justin911]

Paul i think your right..... like im not trying to sound like a dick but

I had my SAFC2 fitted at Ice performance on my r33 a few weeks ago and it was 196rwkw. What was yours to start off with before the powerfc ??

[Cubes]

Paul..

Your power does appear to flatten off in the top end though.

What is boost at peak power?

The actul power curve just doesn't look right for an RB25, not that any of the dyno's you listed do either. lol.

[NickR33]

I maybe wrong here but what if some guys were running more advanced timing than others? maybe tuners are getting better at running them closer to the threshold? or it maybe that tuners like to give high figures to keep customers happy?

I am not sure but I made 14 rwkw less AFTER a rebuild with cams added... the higher figure was in SO mode and the lower was not... but I am completely happy as my AFRs are much better now and the timing is much more conservative... and it feels every bit as quick

[NickR33]

btw some nasty holes in those graphs you listed PaulR33... time for a power fc for some of those guys

[Sydneykid]

maybe im just the odd one out and mine makes less power. i dont think theres many who get under 180 with powerfc tuned. oh well, no dramas. it still fangs its ass off

Most people know that I always look for and generally find a reason for freak results. I believe there is always an explanation/reason. I sit and study the data logs from the race cars for hours looking for reasons, hints, symptoms etc anything that will give us a competitive edge. So, sorry if the following appears a little harsh but it is based on what I see.

Hi Paul, I agree with Cubes, your power flattens off over 5,250 rpm, you should be up around 200 rwkw at 6,300 rpm based on the lower part of the curve. A properly tuned and set up RB25 with your mods makes it max power around 6,250 rpm and yours looses 15 rwkw instead of increasing power in the last 1,000 rpm. It is good up to that point, as good if not better than most. That's why it feels fast.

My guess is you have a restriction that is limiting the flow over 30 lbs per minute of inlet airflow. Or more likely, an exhaust restriction that is limiting the out flow. My first suggestion would be to take a critical look at your dump, engine pipe, cat and exhaust. Maybe even try a dyno run with it disconnected at the front of the cat. That will tell you where to start. At the same time take a close look at your boost curve, particularly what is happening under and over 5,000 rpm. I try to take a boost pressure reading at the turbo oulet and compare that with what I see at the plenum. If there is more than 1 psi difference between above and below ~5,000 rpm then you have an inlet restriction. Have a critical look at your filter, intercooler and inlet pipework.

When looking for an issue like this, I just do one power run and log everything that I can. Costs very little, if you do it at a club day $50 or so. Then it is time to look at the tuning, what are the A/F ratios like over 5,000 rpm? What are the ignition timing settings over 5,000 rpm? Have a look at the maps on the Commander and just do a simple comparison while refering to the dyno graphs. The answer is there, I guarantee it.

Hope that made sense:cheers:

[justin911]

you can borrow my consult cable if ya like (im in melbourne)

it gives good stats back about all the stuff Sydneykid was talking about.

[R31Nismoid]

so can anyone say where DD say the temp sensor should be ?

I know one of you will know

[paulr33]

my power before the powerfc tune was around 150 odd. i will check out my exhaust setup and try and diag it. i have my own consult cable and stock ecu, but the consult cable doesnt work with the powerfc. whatever is available via the consult u get on the powerfc hand controller. ive got a friend at work trying to make up the apexi powerfc serial cable dongle so if that works should proove very helpful. the evc is set to 0.80bar and it holds that level all the way through, if i fang it to redline and watch the output it always hovers on 0.82 0.79 etc. thanks for tips guys will try and sus it out. but back on topic so its possible the tuners have gotten more clever/cunning and bump up the timing more? or just a theory?

[Cubes]

Nismoid, I had the inlet temp sensor placed in the 100mm cai.

Can't get any closer to real inlet temps than that.

Paulr33.... Maybe your running a RB20DET turbo???? Just a thought.

[justin911]

all the r33's making 200rwkw.. there starting off at like 160-170 b4 the safc/PFC though.

just looking at my graph and then at yours..(and its sat morning so im not squinting to count properly ) but by like 80km/hr your doing 95kw, and im doing about 85kw..

by 130km/hr your doing like 160kw or so.. but when I get to 130km im only doing about 150kw... at that stage though.. i get to about 170kw at like 135km/hr, whereas yours does it at like 165-170km/hr or so.

So unless im reading it wrong and considering I never go faster than 130km/hr..

you cars probs faster on the road than alot of the 200kw skylines

kinda makes me think now