Will This Setup Work with an R32 GTS-t?

[AzzurrA]

Hi All!

Sort of carrying on from another thread, but its on a different tangent, so i didn't want to go mixing all the info up in the thread etc.... and yes, i have searched (Read the first 25 pages of this subforum, front to back) which is where i got most of the information that i will be talking about below from

Recently i went to a suspension place for a wheel alignment, and they suggested that most of my bushes needed replacing, so i thought "if i'm going to do most of them, i may as well do the lot and do it properly" so i've been digging around trying to find bushes etc...

Anyway, i went to another suspension place last night... this guy does mainly competition setups etc (Targa, motorkhanas, gymkhanas, stuff like that) and i had quite an extended chat with him. I told him what i was going to be using the car for (Track days, hillclimbs, motorkhanas, things like Dutton rally and Coastal Challenge etc, as well as it being a daily driven car) Now i explained to him that i'm on a very limited budget, and in no way did i think that with such a low budget that i would be competetive, just looking for something that is going to be a bit of fun to drive in these sorts of events.

I ran the idea past him of a setup, that i had compiled together in my head from reading all the threads about setups etc previously, which was...

*Replace all Suspension bushes with Urethane, with adjustable/eccentric bushes for the control arms, both front and rear, and also the castor rod bushes.

*Bilstein Shocks

*Whiteline Springs (350 - 400lb/in front, 200lb/in rear)

*27mm Swaybar front

*24mm Swaybar rear (Dont intend to be racing in the rain)

Now, he said that that setup sounded good, however it probably wouldn't suit my requirements, as its more for an all-out, higher speed track only car, rather than something for lower speed stuff as well (i.e. tight corners at lower speeds, such as what you get in motorkhanas and on the road as well, for events like Duttons, CC)

He wasn't sure about the whiteline springs, as he said they can come from several manufacturers (he is going to find out who for me) and therefore vary in build quality etc. He also isn't sure if they'd be suited to the Bilsteins (in rates).

Suggested that i use Kings Springs, and he is going to be researching what rates are available in these etc. anyone had any experience (either positive or negative) with these?

He also suggested that i use Koni shocks, again, good/bad?

Said not to worry about the bushes, as he doesn't think that many of the ones that i was told are gone, are actually gone (he is going to check this out himself sometime next week)

Also said to not do swaybars at this point in time... but to do everything else, and then see how it is... if its still not 100%, to look at using the swaybars to fine tune it.

And finally, he said that i probably wouldn't get enough adjustablility with just eccentric/adjustable bushes, and suggested that i should go for adjustable top arms, front and rear, and also adjustable castor rods. I questioned him about this, as all the things i've read about them seem to point to them wearing quickly, being noisy (the harshness doesn't bother me too much). He said that the main reason that they wear quickly, is most of them don't have dust covers over the actual rod ends, and therefore get grit etc in the moving parts, which then grinds, hence causing all the wear. He said that if i get some with dust covers, that they should be fine, and not wear much at all.. The reasoning behind him wanting to use these, is because he doesn't think that i'll get enought adjustability with just offset/adjustable bushes. What are your thoughts on this issue?... I'd prefer to stick with the bushes, for 2 reasons: 1) so that the car stays 'legal' as there's been so many crackdowns on imports lately, and 2) i'm not wasting $$$ on some fang-dangled arms etc, when a simple bush will give me the amount of adjustability i need and do the same job.

I think it must have slipped his mind that when i raise the car with the new springs/shocks (its too low at the moment... will get exact measurements this afternoon) that the camber angles will in fact decrease, hence not needing so much adjustment.

So, in summary, his thoughts for a setup were:

*Adjustable Castor Rods

*Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms

*Adjustable Rear Upper Control Arms

*Kings Springs (He's researching the rates available, but he liked the 350 - 400lb/in fronts and 200 lb/in rear idea)

*Koni Shocks

Thoughts/Ideas? We've both agreed to take our time and do our research on this setup, as its going to be a month or 2 before i can afford to do all this, and neither of us want to go rushing in and then find out its not suited to the application etc.

Many Thanks

Jason

[Roy]

Whiteline wont make the 27mm front swaybar for the R32GTST:( , i rang and asked after their dealers were all giving me contrary advice.

I figure im not going to bother with the bigger rear swaybar unless i can balance it out with a bigger front.

As for springs, they werent interested in supplying higher rate springs for their Bilstein shocks that im running, basically said if i want better handling just get the Bilsteins re-valved and continue runnning the soft springs i am currently running.:confused:

So i have given up, thats the 3rd time i had the money spent and things went pearshape......right now, ive lost interest and am goign to go back to just driving my thing...it sux when you cant see straight for all the bullsh1t shops tell you.

I have found two places in Vic now, and forget my own research im just going to puppet what they tell me form now on...bound to be the better option, thing is i dont learn anything but at least i wont be broke:(

So best of luck with it...rather then re-write history id suuugest a set of bushes all round, some off the shelf HKS / Apexi Adjustabel suspension and then maybe some Whiteline swaybars. I have to remind myself its ahobby and im not getting anything in return for the money i spend, and have just as much fun doing 1:30s as i would 1:28s so , sorry...just a rant as it seems you may have read some of my previous dribble in your search:(

[predator]

From reading a few reports on here, the Kings aren't a good match for the Bilsteins and will sit too low. Seems like the bilsteins are good shocks, but everybody seems to have trouble getting springs to correctly match them?? So you saying Roy the whiteline springs + bilsteins haven't been great for you?

I'm getting a set of 2nd hand bilsteins in a week or so, and plan on running them with the factory springs for a while, until I work out what to do regarding the springs. Anyhow, once I get them in, I can let you know the difference. It's not costing me much, so its a cheap experiment.

If it's all shithouse I'm thinking of later on maybe going for the new TEIN superstreet coilovers, that quite a few dealers are being g'ed up to start selling soon. Supposedly they have been revalved and better suited to aussie conditions than the equivelent Japanese rocks - whether this really stacks up is debateable.

Price is around $1500 fitted I have been told... which is very good for something with good adjustability and nice local backed warranty.

[Roy]

The Whiteline springs with the Whiteline supplied Bislteins are a great setup for the street, and make for a fun, neutral car at the track. But with semis on at the track they suspension is a bit out of its depth (my thoughts as the guy behind the wheel)

So if your keen on track work, more then you are concerned about a very nice street car susp package, then the Whiteline kit for the R32 GTST isnt the go. (My thoughts)

How i go from what ive got to something better i got no idea.

Right now im thinking $3200 DMS again, but fark thats a lot of money...so unless i marry a rich 19 year old girl who loves working on her older, lazier, slightly bald and overweight husbands car, my susp aint getting touched:(

[Beer Baron]

i would suggest that the whiteline springs are better than the kings. as for the konis, imo the bilsteins are a much better damper than the regular 'konis' people sell. the really high end konis may be great but I'm yet to see anyone use them. On skylines and on GTI-Rs I personally know of quite a few people who have had trouble with konis. for me that's a good enough reason not to buy them.

Sway bars are a great suspension upgrade and cost bugger all. I would deffinately get these.

[Roy]

Well speaking to Bilstein last week for approx $150 a corner you can get a kit allows you to have a fully adjustable spring seat so the shock becomes truly height adjustable, and then allows you to run a huge array of springs, which are essentially ex stock and about $125 per spring:)

If you want to bump up the spring rate then the shocks can also be re-valved or suit which is another $150 a corner, and at the end of it you have a brand new fully re-furbed shock. And there is no need to re-valve the rears, and the fronts they suggested to suck and see how they handle the 450pound spring.

I wont be doing it until summer when it gets too hot for me to go to the track, then ill do some mods improvements then, in the meantime save my money for actually driving the thing

[Beer Baron]

in the meantime save my money for actually driving the thing

on that note wtf aren't you at wakefield park right now??? I have my excuse handy, what's yours? scared of GTRs? teehee.

[Roy]

...im at work!

Still tidying up paperwork for an audit:( FARK THIS, it is so time for a career change:)

[Beer Baron]

d'oh. so have you postponed the wakefield attack or is it now off the cards?

[AzzurrA]

Finally Got some time to look at this some more...

Yes Roy, i've been getting alot of my information from Yourself and Sydneykid...

The Measurements for the centre of hub - guard, are, as it sits right now... (Give or take a few mm)

Front Left - 315mm

Front Right - 305mm

Rear Left - 340mm

Rear Right - 335mm

Now, the Alignment Settings are as below (at my last wheel alignment):

Front Camber:

Left: 2 degrees 35 minutes

Right: 2 degrees 17 minutes

Front Toe:

Left: +1.4mm

Right: +1.1mm

Front Castor:

Left: +4 degrees 8 minutes

Right: +5 degrees 52 minutes

REAR

Rear Camber:

Left: 1 degree 33 minutes

Right: 2 degrees 1 minute

Rear Toe:

Left: +0.7mm

Right: +0.6mm

Now, with raising the car up to around 350mm front and 360mm rear, how much roughly would you think that those settings would improve? (I.e. roughly how much camber would i get rid of on the front and rear etc) And would it then be possible to use the Adjustable camber bushes to get the camber to a nice workable level? Will the castor be affected by raising the car?

I got some details for the Bilstein Shocks today, and was wondering if someone could help me out with figuring out what sort of springs would match them well?

Bilstein B461473 - $266 Inc.

Front

Bump @ 520mm/sec

635n

Rebound @ 520mm/sec

2895n

Bilstein B461474 - $266 Inc.

Rear

Bump @ 520mm/sec

325n

Rebound @ 520mm/sec

1395n

He quoted the rates in Newtons, and i'm not entirely sure how to work out what sort of springs they would suit? (I was never overly good at maths )

[AzzurrA]

P.S.

Roy, the Bilstein shock specs above will be the same as your ones that you got with the whiteline kit, if that helps you in any way (i.e. if you want to know the specs)

Also, what is it with Fulcrum slagging off Whiteline? The last couple of times i've called Fulcrum about Whiteline stuff (They're supposed to be the QLD Distributors for Whiteline) I got "oh, we don't deal with Whiteline, we think they're crap" and then they tried to sell me their (Fulcrums) $2500 coilovers plus all this other crap i wasn't even enquiring about.... yet when i called Whiteline they said for me to speak to the distributor, i asked who that was, and they said Fulcrum?