RB 30 versus Rb26 Performance

[exXU1]

FEEL FREE TO V0ICE YOUR OPPINIONS based on experience and or here say.

I'd like to Know if the rb 30 has any benifits that may assist in drag scenario in an 32 GTR. I have heard that they produce more torque but do not rev as hard as aRb 26. Is the block as good, crank stronger, these are just some questions one tends to ponder.

I am concidering the fact that rather than modifying my rb26, it maybe benificial to buy an rb30 with some of the work already done on the bottom end and bolt on my head and periphrals.???hhmmmm.

Do they fit into an R32 gtr easily and what differances in fitting may one come across. :headspin:

[BigMicky]

The first problem your gunna have is fitting your GTR sump. Your sump will need an adaptor before it fits, but someone on the forums here does sell the adapters.

[specialk]

yep s13drifter sells the adaptor plate

[paulr33]

It doesn't cost more to build a RB31DET, it costs much less if you take into account the original cost of an RB30 versus an RB26. The reality is if I spend the same money buying and modifying an R32GTST, as I do buying and modifying an R32GTR, the R32 GTST will be faster. Ultimately, if I have enough budget, I could get the R32GTR to be faster but it would need to a pretty BIG budget

Taken from http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...&highlight=rb30 regarding a budget of XYZ dollars rb25/rb30 vs rb26 comparsion thread

[paulr33]

err im a retard, ignore the previous post

[Leewah]

As you have specified a drag scenario, here is what I've read, seen and experienced.

If you take a properly prepped 2.6 and compare it to a properly prepped 3.0 you will find that the 3.0 can actually rev quite high. I've seen them rev out to 9000rpm. My prepped 2.6 revs out to 9500 but we set the limiter to 9000 for safety reasons.

The 3.0 will make more torque. There's no doubt about that. Nearly every aspect of the 3.0 is superior to the 2.6 but it will cost a lot more to build a strong 3.0 overall package simply for the fact that the torque created by a 3.0 will break things which a 2.6 won't.

My 2.6 runs stock diffs and driveshafts. A big HP 3.0 will snap these things like twigs on a hard launch due to sheer torque.

If you look at the RacePace Motorsport 3.0 GTR (owned by RPMGTR on these forums) you'll find that all his driveline are aftermarket or custom built to deal with the torque created by the 3.0 engine.

We've launched my car at 8500rpm with 617rwkw and there was no problems on the stock driveline. Doing the same on a 3.0 is a recipe for disaster IMO.

If you put the same turbo setup on a 2.6 and a 3.0, you'll find that the 3.0 makes the power a lot easier too. This is simply due to displacement. My turbo put on a 3.0 setup will make the same power as me with less effort. I reckon it'll make the same power as my car bout 1500rpm earlier but that's an educated guess as I haven't had the chance to compare it.

The simple answer is look at Kier Wilson and John Munro. Both run the OS Giken 3.0 bottom combined with a custom driveline. Kier has run 8.7 (slicks) in his 3.0 and John ran 9.2 (Nittos).

Drawback of the 3.0 setup? Cost. To prepare a 3.0 car including gearbox, clutch, diffs, driveshafts, bottom end prepping and an appropriate turbo setup, I'd say you'll be very light pocketed when yr done.

Hope this helps.

[exXU1]

Leewah, much appreciated in put. The torque factor is a major concideration, i didn't realise it was so crucial in relation to the drive train. I would prefer not have these problems and i think i might stickwith my 26, hhmmmm not sure still.

Could you shed some light on the gear box "beef up", is it not 3rd gear that gives all the trouble, can one not simply replace 3rd with a better quality cog ?? Wht is the better way to go, please?

Dave

As you have specified a drag scenario, here is what I've read, seen and experienced.

If you take a properly prepped 2.6 and compare it to a properly prepped 3.0 you will find that the 3.0 can actually rev quite high.  I've seen them rev out to 9000rpm.  My prepped 2.6 revs out to 9500 but we set the limiter to 9000 for safety reasons.

The 3.0 will make more torque.  There's no doubt about that.  Nearly every aspect of the 3.0 is superior to the 2.6 but it will cost a lot more to build a strong 3.0 overall package simply for the fact that the torque created by a 3.0 will break things which a 2.6 won't.

My 2.6 runs stock diffs and driveshafts.  A big HP 3.0 will snap these things like twigs on a hard launch due to sheer torque.

If you look at the RacePace Motorsport 3.0 GTR (owned by RPMGTR on these forums) you'll find that all his driveline are aftermarket or custom built to deal with the torque created by the 3.0 engine.

We've launched my car at 8500rpm with 617rwkw and there was no problems on the stock driveline.  Doing the same on a 3.0 is a recipe for disaster IMO.

If you put the same turbo setup on a 2.6 and a 3.0, you'll find that the 3.0 makes the power a lot easier too.  This is simply due to displacement.  My turbo put on a 3.0 setup will make the same power as me with less effort.  I reckon it'll make the same power as my car bout 1500rpm earlier but that's an educated guess as I haven't had the chance to compare it.

The simple answer is look at Kier Wilson and John Munro.  Both run the OS Giken 3.0 bottom combined with a custom driveline.  Kier has run 8.7 (slicks) in his 3.0 and John ran 9.2 (Nittos).

Drawback of the 3.0 setup?  Cost.  To prepare a 3.0 car including gearbox, clutch, diffs, driveshafts, bottom end prepping and an appropriate turbo setup, I'd say you'll be very light pocketed when yr done.

Hope this helps.

[Leewah]

The torque factor can be seen as both a blessing and a curse.

Sure, with the 3.0 you produce huge amounts of torque off the line and the car will continue pulling hard until you take your foot off the loud pedal but at the same time, it adds a large amount of stress on the gearbox and driveline.

Generally speaking, from what I've heard, it is 3rd which tends to break in racing. This is due to the fact that 3rd is where most of the power is made. The other factor is also how you change your gears. The Garage Saraus R33 GTR used to run an OS Giken Cross Mission gearset (like my car and the RPMGTR) and ran 1200ps. I'm sure they broke gears but I also know people in AU how have snapped gears in a Hollinger like toothpicks. If you are rough on the gearbox, it will break. On the other hand though, I've known people to break their stock gearbox in a 300rwkw GTR. Treat it like you would like to be treated and it will last.

Sure you could replace gears everytime you break them, but at over $1k per gear + labour, it gets expensive after awhile.

Don't let me discourage you from doing a 3.0 project. It is a field which is becoming more and more common these days. The results of a properly prepped 3.0 will be great and very rewarding. I chose to go down the path of the 2.6 as I felt that I wanted to keep some aspects of the GTR intact when I raced it.

Cheers,

Dave.

Leewah, much appreciated in put. The torque factor is a major concideration, i didn't realise it was so crucial in relation to the drive train. I would prefer not have these problems and i think i might stickwith my 26, hhmmmm not sure still.

Could you shed some light on the gear box "beef up", is it not 3rd gear that gives all the trouble, can one not simply replace 3rd with a better quality cog ?? Wht is the better way to go, please?

Dave

[yogi000]

Hey Guys

would a rb30 bottom end be reliable enough to make 1200ps?? One out of a VL or something like that not the OS Giken kit.

[Cefiro_PWA]

"PLATNM" VL turbo from bresciani.. twin cam that engine and put it in a GTR.

mmmm 550rwkw in a automatic trans.. imagin a 6speed trust box.. way over 600kw's

[MattSR]

" imagin a 6speed trust box.. way over 600kw's"

Yeah for about a 1/2 a second before it srays its innards all over the ground

[Leewah]

VL bottom ends are fine as long as they are prepped properly.

I beleive the RPMGTR uses a modified VL bottom end.

At the end of the day, it is a Nissan item

Hey Guys

would a rb30 bottom end be reliable enough to make 1200ps?? One out of a VL or something like that not the OS Giken kit.

[Leewah]

LOL.

Don't trust the Trust.

" imagin a 6speed trust box.. way over 600kw's"

Yeah for about a 1/2 a second before it srays its innards all over the ground

[Sydneykid]

It's a numbers game............and there is always more than 1 number....

A 600 rwkw at 8,000 rpm 3.1 litre will have the same torque as a 600 rwkw at 8,000 rpm 2.6 litre. Remember horsepower X rpm / 5250 = torque.

So the only time you have a 3.1 litre with more torque (and the same horsepower) is if it develops that horsepower at a lower rpm. Similarly it will develop the same torque at lower rpm, and lower launch rpm means less stresses on the engine, the gearbox, the clutch the diff etc. Lower shift rpm = less wear on the gearbox as well.

It is average torque over the used rpm range that propels you down the 1/4, so a 10 sec 2.6 litre will need the same amount of torque as a 10 sec 3.1 litre. If you have a 3.1 litre that makes more torque it will be faster, therefore you are no longer comparing two 10 second engines.

If I want to do 10 seconds for the 1/4, I serously doubt that there is much difference in cost between an 2.6 and a 3.1 litre, except you won't have to rev the 3.1 litre as much to do the same time. So it will last a lot longer, 20% lower rpm = a lot longer between rebuilds. Plus I can buy a rebuildable RB30 bottom end for $100, try that with an RB26.

Based on the above logic, I reckon a 3.1 litre is goping to work out far cheaper.

[GTR32]

FEEL FREE TO V0ICE YOUR OPPINIONS based on experience and or here say.

I'd like to Know if the rb 30  has any benifits that may assist in drag scenario in an 32 GTR. I have heard that they produce more torque but do not rev as hard as  aRb 26. Is the block as good, crank stronger, these are just some questions one tends to ponder.

I am concidering the fact that rather than modifying my rb26, it maybe benificial to buy an rb30 with some of the work already done on the bottom end and bolt on my head and periphrals.???hhmmmm.

Do they fit into an R32 gtr easily and what differances in fitting may one come across.   :headspin:

why not try talking to rob ward of rotorua import performance shop (rips) in nz. afaik he does 10.5sec passes all day every day on a stock rb30 bottom end with rb26 head in a gts 4. the skylines downunder site has some rips cars on it - at least one i've seen has the username 'bradyz', it's a purple gts4.

as for the fitting issue the rb30 thread has it all...

[exXU1]

Gentlemen , thank you for you input, all your comments are sincerly appreciated.

I AM GOIN THE RB 30 --------- YEAH!!!!! :flamed:

why not try talking to rob ward of rotorua import performance shop (rips) in nz. afaik he does 10.5sec passes all day every day on a stock rb30 bottom end with  rb26 head in a gts 4. the skylines downunder site has some rips cars on it  - at least one i've seen has the username 'bradyz', it's a purple gts4.  

as for the fitting issue the rb30 thread has it all...

[Fitzpatrick Speed Works]

AN rb30 will work out cheaper but only marginally but the beauty is the availablilty of important thangs like block cranks and girdles as opposed to the rb26. IF you want to send me a PM if you are serious I can discuss some mods that i have done to my own rb30 in my GTR to make sure it will rev to 8000RPM all day everyday, and remember 8000RPM in a rb30 is the same cubic displacement of air as an rb26 and 9600RPM.... I am currently building two other rb30's to go into r32 GTRS with all different combos and end needs for the engine so PM if your keen. Oh by the way I make the spacer plates to adapt the rb30 to the rb26 sump....

[nare]

That said, is it actually worth the ~25k for the OS Giken RB30 Kit? and the ~15k for the OS Giken Gearset?

[GTR-Ben]

That said, is it actually worth the ~25k for the OS Giken RB30 Kit? and the ~15k for the OS Giken Gearset?

If you can afford it, hell yes. It's all a very nice kit.

Try for a OS 3L and OS sequential though

The OS kit is far stronger and has been known to last a long time with over 1000HP.. thats pretty impressive if you ask me.

GTR32: Robs 10s GTS-4 only ran a stock RB25DE head.. also a stock GTR gearbox.. which has held it back from 9's.

[Scooby]

GTR32: Robs 10s GTS-4 only ran a stock RB25DE head.. also a stock GTR gearbox.. which has held it back from 9's.

Gotcha. I reckon what he does with that thing, and supposedly on a stock but prepped RB30 bottom end, is great.