MAGIC Cat vs NEW CATCO Cat

[Shaun]

I just rang magic and mentioned that someone was dishing their product. They said these claims were 'bullsh1t'. I also asked if their product would pass an epa test and they said it would.

Im certainly not saying that this puts the argument to rest, i just thought id post up what they said in regard to these claims. I wasnt going to ask for proof or anything like that because i believe that we, as customers, have a right to expect that the claims of a manufacturer are substantiated; ie, that a cat actually performs as a cat. If i find that it doesnt when i get an epa test done, ill take it up with magic then. Ill continue to use a magic cat until i am convinced that the above claims are substantiated.

I just want to stress, that although i organised the group buy with magic cat, i have no afilliation with them at all. I just thought if i could get a better price on a cat that i needed, i would.

I did, however, get the feeling that there was some 'history' with magic and catco when i rang them. They mentioned that they knew of someone from catco who was denegrating their product. I dont know if Btmbl is afilliated with catco or not.

Shaun.

[PHATR32]

why doesnt someone stick a magic cat on and get a test done?

im in the market for a cat and would probly do it but my car wont be ready for a few months.

steve

[INASNT]

I just rang magic and mentioned that someone was dishing their product. They said these claims were 'bullsh1t'. I also asked if their product would pass an epa test and they said it would.  

Im certainly not saying that this puts the argument to rest, i just thought id post up what they said in regard to these claims. I wasnt going to ask for proof or anything like that because i believe that we, as customers, have a right to expect that the claims of a manufacturer are substantiated; ie, that a cat actually performs as a cat. If i find that it doesnt when i get an epa test done, ill take it up with magic then. Ill continue to use a magic cat until i am convinced that the above claims are substantiated.  

I just want to stress, that although i organised the group buy with magic cat, i have no afilliation with them at all. I just thought if i could get a better price on a cat that i needed, i would.

I did, however, get the feeling that there was some 'history' with magic and catco when i rang them. They mentioned that they knew of someone from catco who was denegrating their product. I dont know if Btmbl is afilliated with catco or not.  

Shaun.

Hmm very interesting thread.

BATMBL

If it true what your saying, then do you have factual proof of it? Like were you there when 1 of the Magic cats were dismantled and checked?

[raz0r$harP.UK]

anyone had thier car EPA tested with a magic cat on?

[TTT]

interesting thread...

I want to see the outcome of this one.

[Guest Mashrock]

i need a cat. dont have one at present.

[BiZzReVhEad]

i have a Magic cat as well , and will be rather annoyed if someone slugs me with a huge ass fine because it didnt pass an EPA test . Ill definately be looking at the outcome of this .

[foznice]

I just did a chem exam a couple of days ago a part of which was based on catalysts. I thought I might be able to elaborate on SK's post before.

For now, without thinking about catalysts:

When you have the Nitrogen oxide and carbon monoxide turning into carbon dioxide and nitrogen and oxygen. Basically, these reactions can take place without a catalyst such as (platinum, rhodium) if the right temperature (really f&*ckin high) is used.

The reason for this, is these reactions have whats called an 'activation energy' where the molecules need x amount of energy before they can break and form new compounds (C02, N2, 02). To reach that activation energy, for these reactions alot of heat is required.

A catalyst lowers the activation energy required to break the bonds within the molecules. Eg, less heat is required to form the products (C02, N2, 02). Catalysts lower the activation energy because they are slightly attracted to the C0 and N0/N02 molecues. So this slight attraction causes the C0 and N0/N02 molecules to collide with the catalyst. Upon collision with the catalyst, the bonds between the C0 and N0/N02 molecules are weakened. Because the bonds within molecules are weak, LESS energy is required to break them.

So this means that the addition of a catalyst will make the converision of C0/N0/N02 to C02/N2/02 possible.

So what SK and lucien said before is right, without the coating (of platinum or rhodium or aluminium oxide (there was another also)) of a catalyst the exhuast gas won't be converted into the less dangerous emmisions. And emmision-wise, your exhaust will probably be as clean as one with a straight through pipe...

my 2c

[BATMBL]

sydneykid,

right on the ball there. those materials (which cost $$$ e.g. platinum) need to be coated on the steel mesh. ceramic honeycombs are composed of this already, not coated.

anyways, i know that he would have said something like that to you Shaun, as if he would say anything else to a customer. it also wasnt me, as i havent met him or spoken to him.. i will find out whether i can get a hold of these failed test papers of the magic cat and will post on this thread. im quite sure there was testing done with these cats (along with others) recently, and it failed miserably. i sell catco products because i believe they are excellent in quality, design and pass emissions test. the new catco cat, which has the exact same insides (but coated mesh) and an even bigger body (5" not 4") would flow even better than the magic cat. so you will notice the same or even better flow characteristics on the dyno as the magic cat.

its quite simple anyways, it can all be quickly resolved if he can provide evidence of the emissions passing on that specific cat and the appropriate papers. we have got a third party to request them on our behalf and have been waiting for them for a few months now....even after several calls from the third party...we know we wont get to see them because they dont exist. why? because you cant get approval papers for a cat that fails...!

[grandmasterb]

sydneykid,

right on the ball there. those materials (which cost $$$ e.g. platinum) need to be coated on the steel mesh. ceramic honeycombs are composed of this already, not coated.  

anyways, i know that he would have said something like that to you Shaun, as if he would say anything else to a customer. it also wasnt me, as i havent met him or spoken to him.. i will find out whether i can get a hold of these failed test papers of the magic cat and will post on this thread. im quite sure there was testing done with these cats (along with others) recently, and it failed miserably. i sell catco products because i believe they are excellent in quality, design and pass emissions test. the new catco cat, which has the exact same insides (but coated mesh) and an even bigger body (5" not 4") would flow even better than the magic cat. so you will notice the same or even better flow characteristics on the dyno as the magic cat.

its quite simple anyways, it can all be quickly resolved if he can provide evidence of the emissions passing on that specific cat and the appropriate papers. we have got a third party to request them on our behalf and have been waiting for them for a few months now....even after several calls from the third party...we know we wont get to see them because they dont exist. why? because you cant get approval papers for a cat that fails...!

Be very interesting to see how this one turns out, but if it does appear that there doing the dodgy with there cats and they are not passing an epa test then they will have a lot to answer to than the very angry and pissed off customers, they will be the least of there problems :confused:

[xRHETTx]

Could someone not just look into their Magic cat and see if the stainless steel mesh is coated with something? I know it wont be proof that the cat would pass or fail an EPA test but at least it would put the rumor that the cat isnt coated at all to rest.

[INASNT]

I think we need for more scientific inspection on the cat than a visual one.

[Ronin 09]

Could someone not just look into their Magic cat and see if the stainless steel mesh is coated with something?  I know it wont be proof that the cat would pass or fail an EPA test but at least it would put the rumor that the cat isnt coated at all to rest.

coating is not visually identifiable

[grandmasterb]

I think we need for more scientific inspection on the cat than a visual one.

yep, and im sure that the way this thread is going that it wont be long before someone does something along the lines of inspecting a MAGIC cat. If it wasn't so close to the weekend and i didn't live so far away i would buy one just to get it inspected so i can see if people are getting ripped off there hard earned money or if this is just some talk going around again???

I think that after reading some of this thread a specific posts that its not the later of the two :confused:

[INASNT]

I would think the starter of this thread would have some factual proof by now by claiming such things that could put a company out of business.

[grandmasterb]

:chairshot

[BATMBL]

hi guys

i the end, im not the one that needs to come up with the proof, even though i would am working on getting papers with the proof.

as an e.g. if someone has made a claim against me and i know its false, i will provide the evidence needed to put the matter to rest. the fact that the evidence isnt provided, and as 'grandmasterb' has also pointed out after calling magic himself, he keeps avoiding and turns around the and doesnt answer the question for the main reason he called...

another way of putting it is if someone claims that my name isnt michael (which it is!), but they say, no its john. how can i put this matter to rest? its up to me to prove that my name is michael by showing a birth cert or whatever is needed... not having the other party to search for records etc to show that my name is john and not Michael... i mean if you are innocent, prove it? its much easier to end the issue...

this may have confused some people, but i think you get my drift.. it would be great if i can get a hold of these papers (working on it) for proof, but there really is no need to if he has his approvals, it would really be something that Magic can settle quickly if they were in the right instead of beating around the bush not being straight with answers and just talking crap about a 'feud', when all he needs to do is go to you guys that call, yes come around or yes i'll fax you the papers, here is the proof that my cats pass, end of story...", these docs arent top secret and can be made available to anyone at request. obviously no one would ever ask for them because they expect that what they are buying is what it is claimed it is.. people can be ignorant.

i noticed a previous post about 'why a company would be stupid to attempt a thing like this', but if you really think about it, it happens all the time...what would make you so suprised that a small company in the auto indusrty is never likely to rip people off? afterall, how many people do you think know how cats work and what is needed on them in order to work properly?

also with regards to the 'how can you tell by looking at the cat', there is a way, not by looking for the coating, but by the 'stamp' of a number which indicates the caoting performed..these cats with these biscuits start with a 9(i think) and by the top of my head, the catco cat has a 4 or 5 digit number which indicates the coating used. the above statement is maybe not that useful, but any 'stamp' on the biscuit should indicate some sort of coating, but it doesnt mean it contains the right coating, as there are different specs for different cats, thus different numbers.

hmmm, maybe the way the magic cat actually passes emissions is ...by magic? lol

[Shaun]

Mate, i disagree wholeheartedly with what you have stated above. If you are making the claims; serious allegations that can quite possible ruin a business and families involved with this business, it is your responsibility to back these claims up with conctete evidence! So far, all you have provided us with is some sh1t about biscuits and coatings. No back to back tests, no epa documentation, how do we know you're not some quackpot loser muthaf*cker just doing this for a laugh?

Also, id be careful if i were you because if these claims are false, and as you have been denegrating Magic Cat publicly, they'd have grounds to sue you for deformation.

Im also wondering why you are so passionate in your denegration of Magic Cats product. Whats in it for you? Are you trying to be a good samaritan?

If Magic Cats product is not what they claim it to be, then i will take it up with them when i get my car on the road and emissions tested.

For now, Michael, i say Fu*k off until you have concrete evidence. You started this thread; i think you should finnish it.

Shaun.

[PHATR32]

shaun works/owns/is dating the owner of magic cats i assume? :bananaman

[Sydneykid]

In this country we are ALL innocent until PROVEN guilty. Until such time as Magic is PROVEN guilty, they are INNOCENT, that's all there is to it.