Microtech Fuel Economy Test!

[SLY33]

Those of you who remember the FC vs Microtech thread a while ago will recall the debate on how the microtech effects fuel economy.

Well since back in adelaide ive gone through a few tanks of ultimate 98. Meggala, i guess im eating my words now dude. I am not real impressed with the fuel economy to say the least!

I am embarrasssed to say that i struggle to get over 300k's a tank! JEES! I used to get 350k's minimum when flogging the car, and I had previously put this down to a heavy foot with extra power, but even when cruising, the thing sucks just about as much fuel as when boosting. So driving conservatively doesnt do the economy any favours, which really sucks!

I am pretty pissed off with this, as i had been practically assured by a "big name" that the economy wouldnt be too bad prior to purchasing the ECU.

I am curious tho to whether tuning influences this? Am I right that i could get more fine tuning done on part throttle or light load to better the economy??

Bottom line guys, the economy of my car blows (chunks). That said however, the power is awesome, and ive been cleaning up on the street! -also this is only one car, what are you other LT12 users getting?!

Cheers, and apologies for previously backing the MTech without doing my own tests. Was just passing on info from what should've been a reliable source.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

SLY33,

Even with the factory computer I wasn't getting much better than 300k's, maybe due to driving style, but since I have had the new Wolf in I hadn't noticed any additional loss of economy. I wouldn't have thought that the economy should change that much, but are you running MAP or AFM, I think this is more of an influencing factor. In general the car should have been leaned off to produce more power, so you should be getting the same or better economy.

You could always run multiple maps, one for economy and one for racing. The car should have been tuned to produce maximum power, without regard to fuel economy, so a more conservative map may be needed for daily driving.

See'ya:burnout:

[Freebaggin]

I am running an LT-12 and fuel economy and light throttle drivability the main issues. Otherwise I can't fault it, a very good value unit with lots of potential in it in terms of software and other modular upgrades from Microtech and also when powering up later with bigger turbo/injectors. Power FC better for fuel econ. due to closed loop operation under light loads and idle plus only aftermarket ECU to use AFM which I think can help with tuning precision. All the rest ditch this and use MAF for outright power and other reasons. I've heard Microtech are looking into closed loop upgrade to their systems, like the Haltechs.

Sly33, that being said, you just need to get it retuned for economy, you shouldn't need to have an economy tune and a power tune with different maps. Under boost and WOT, all tuners lean off from factory settings (to a safe level) which has the side benefit of better economy anyway. Light load/throttle driving should be tuned for economy with the same overall MAP and that's the stuff that takes the longest to get right.

With the LT-12, you probably need to get the accelerator pump 1 & 2 settings changed to deliver a bit less enrichment, probably a bit less rich in "warm up" and idle and things like that. I've had mine retuned 4 times for drivability and fuel economy, first R33 to get plug-in LT-12 and therfore a bit of a guineapig so tuning bugs need to be ironed out. Now getting between 12.5-13.5L/100km or about 400km per 50-54L around town. Still worse that factory ECU, albeit with 30rwkW more and much better throttle response all through rev range.

BTW, getting 200rwkW (series I std. turbo, FMIC, 3.5" turbo back exh., custom inlet to compressor without AFM, 044 pump).

[Guest turbogtst]

Easy solution sell the microtech, honestly you only get what you paid for and they are just junk, I had one on a gtst and its economy was useless always running rich at idle, you try to lean it out and it would stall, good under full boost and that is about it. No use making 250 kw and shit house driveability and economy, the main problem is the closed loop does not work properly, put the factory ecu back in until you can get a power fc.

[meggala]

sly sorry I was right and yes I mean it. they are a reasonable ecu at the right price but if you do your sums the fuel economy add up to false economy re the price of the unit.

that why I say go the power fc every time.

you should be happy making 300 klms a tank Iahve heard of them only making 200 klm a tank @ a buck a liter you need ot take it into account.

emggala

[hippy]

just a bit off topic but .... is it just me or do i get better mileage from normal premium as opposed to ultimate?? im 99.9 percent sure i have a stock ecu ... have hi flow air filter ... decent aftermarket exhaust ... i get 300-350 on ultimate and 400-450 on normal premuim ... why is that?? .. and my cars an automatic ... r33 gtst.??

thanks

[GTS-t VSPEC]

hippy,

I was always told that fuel economy should be better with the Premium Unleaded, although I never use anything else, so I can't do a comparisson.

SLY33,

Does the LT12 perform closed loop control, or does it just do it poorly? It would seem strange that you couldn't get the Microtech to perform as well as the factory unit, if using the factory AFM. With that sort of loss in economy then I'd be pretty disappointed, it defeats the benefit of being a cheaper ECU in the first place.

Might be worth trying a different tuner first, to see if they can improve the ecconomy.

See'ya:burnout:

[MYGTST]

anyone here tried the link plug in ecu ??

how was that on economy ?

[SLY33]

freebaggin,

sounds like our cars are identical but your getting 100km extra per tank!! thats a lot of extra k's!!

Those of you who mentioned it, yes, i think it just needs fine tuning to better the economy. If i can get 400km per tank id be totally happy.

LT12 has no closed loop control.

Hippy,

Thats just weird that you get better econ on normal premium!!

Those of you who bag the LT12 as an ECU, thats not what i wanted to bring attention to! With the LT12 the car drives awesome, and makes good power. It is only the economy im questioning. And in light of freebaggins 400km per tank, i think thats heaps acceptable around town!!

It obviously comes down to the tuner. If i get my retune, and am happy with the economy, id have no problem highly recommending this ECU.

:burnout: :burnout: :burnout: :burnout:

[meggala]

sly I can actually see some good uses for the the microtech mainly for a higher out put iew 280 rwkw+ you can use different and cheaper injectors no need for afm laptop tuning etc they are good but not for every one I hope you retune gets you better fuel economy as well.

cheers

meggala

[Nismo99]

Hey all!

the Microtech's DO NOT yet have closed loop control, hence their slightly higher fuel consumption... the Oxygen sensor input is just a real time A/F ratio meter, used for data logging etc. Spoke to Microtech here in Sydney, and they are currently developing a closed loop control for the ECU, so he's gonna let me know when its all ready to go.

Im sorry all, but i own an LT12 Microtech, and after having set it up about 3 weeks ago now myself, i went for a road tune the other nite with a friend in the passenger seat with the laptop. We were doing power runs ALL NIGHT, and data logging every run, pulling over & tuning, then flat stick again.... about 100km worth! with AF ratios sitting at 12.3:1 @ approx 8psi, exactly half a tank got us 150km. i know this coz we filled up b4 we went, then filled up on the way back.

bottom line... its not the computer, its the tuning/tuner. in my case, idle is perfect, and i can GUARANTEE than if anyone jumps in the car, they wont know its not a std ecu, smooth as. The initial rough setup IS exactly that... ROUGH!! mine didnt even like to idle, so remember, everything is on the very conservative side of the tuning. You may wonder "why does my car only do 200-250km off a tank?" You pay dyno tuners by the hour, and if u dont, and they sell u the ecu in "installed and tuned" form, they wont finetune things like cold start, perfectly smooth off boost control etc

yes, u do get what u pay for... i have set up a Motec M800, and its a fine piece of gear... so i know what true quality is.

I much prefer the Microtech's options over a Power FC, especially datalogging which is invaluable.

Something to think about: my car with the std ecu was at about 10.8:1 A/F ratio at 8psi, so how can it possibly burn less fuel than a much leaner Microtech @ same boost and 12.3:1?? its the off boost thats more often than not to blame for the poor economy

only my experience,

ciao

Jono

[SATO GTS]

a friend of mine has the new LT12 with head work new pistons front mounted throttle body decent front mount cooler high flowed 25 turbs and with the cruising mixtures they are that lean it is about 19:1 going of the standard oxygen sensor .. driveability is still perfect... then when power or load is applied the mixture go into the low 12's which is safe ..

fuel economy is better then the standard comp so he isn't complaining..

L8R

[GTS-t VSPEC]

19:1 sounds a bit too lean for my liking, but if his engine doesn't detonate then he will save lots of money in fuel.

See'ya:burnout:

[Freebaggin]

I think numbers like that are normal for highway cruise as it is only under very light load.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

I'm pretty sure mine doesn't ever run that lean, even while cruising, but I don't care about the economy too much, so I rather run a safer/richer mix.

See'ya:burnout:

[meggala]

and sato with the lean ness the turob might have some issue later on.

cheers

to lean for me

[SATO GTS]

that lean mixture is only at cruise mode and or light throttle but as soon as a load is detected it richen's up to a higher 12.5:1.

i was surprised to hear it my self but the owner of the car say that it drives well and he cant pick any faults or misses when using light throttle driving... the motor must be happy .. next time his spark plugs r out i will have a look c and decide then...

i can't see any harm in having a lean mixture regards to the turb's because the turbo is not creating any boost .. at least it will keep the EPA happy .. lol

[GiJOr33]

I currently run MAP on a HKS FCONV and a VPC (also have a PFC FCON)... economy is pretty shit, about 300-350 a tank, but it's definantly not tuned! (I need to get my hands on the HKS Tuning software... so if anyone has it PM me). And i used to have a stock skyline that was getting about the same (wasn't tuned when it got here though).

My 1st question is, does an Airflow Meter get better economy than a MAP Sensor?

And my 2nd question is, how much power can you get out of a Z32 Airflow Meter on a R33 Skyline (RB25DET) before it max's out (and will it be a restriction in the intake on a car with a big turbo, like a GT3040)??

Thanks

Andrew

[GTS-t VSPEC]

GiJOR33,

This is my take on your questions.

Yes the airflow meter gets better fuel economy than the MAP, this is due to the fact that AFM give a more accurate determination of the actual airflow, and therefore you can provide tighter control over the A/F ratio, giving the better fuel economy.

The Z32 has only enough resolution for about 420rwhp, after this it is maxed out and therefore cannot provide an indication of the real airflow. Yes the AFM will provide a restriction, and with a large turbo then I'd recommend the MAP, which is the approach I'm taking.

I'd recommend getting your existing setup tuned properly, then you will know whether it provides enough resolution to improve the fuel economy, and whether it will be good for higher horsepower.

See'ya:burnout:

[grepin]

Just equated to 14.8l per 100km. So about 330km per 50l. However thats all boost driving.