R33 vs WRX

[scathing]

Oh, right. The way the body acts in a launch.

The thing is, an a GTS-t you want it to drop on its ass more. It shifts the weight over your only drive wheels, and provides more traction.

With a WRX, and its symmetric AWD (even though Subaru's now realised that symmetric AWD isn't necessarily the best thing in the world. I wonder what they'll do with their old marketing?) should try and squat over all the tyres to maximise its traction.

I'm not sure what you mean about "front slippage" in the R33, since there's no drive up there in a GTS-t. If you're talking about a GT-R, its not a major issue. The ATTESSA feeds in the power gradually and apportions torque split accordingly.

If I remember correctly (and people should feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), at rest the GT-R is RWD. If you launch it softly it stays RWD, but if its launched hard ATTESSA detects the initial wheel slip and starts feeding the power in to the front.

Regardless of what state the driveline is in when you first drop the clutch, on a hard launch it will go 4WD in a split secton. Now you've got a situation where your ATTESSA system might feed too much power to the fronts and it starts to slip. At this point it'll start diverting more power to the rear (which should have more traction due to this "ass dropping" weight shift you mentioned). When it puts too much power to the rears and it starts slipping, it stabilises or pushes it back to the front until it finds equilibrium.

Should the ATTESSA system work the way it was intended to, the front and rear tyres should get the right percentage of drive to launch perfectly (which isn't 50:50). If your car's making so much power it'll light up all four, I don't know what it'll do but I am curious to know.

[wrxhoon]

just 4 interest sake

www.jbskyline.net/R33/GTR/Specs

says that an r33 GTR with the RB26DETT does the 1/4 mile in 14.0 at 104mph

while http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_...sub/index2.html

says that an '04 subaru wrx sti with the 2.5L flat4 turbo DOHC does the 1/4mile in 13.23 @ 104.6mph

i think that the WRX eats the r33 on the 1/4mile - until the power of the RB kicks in and the r33 flys past the WRX and eats it in turn - hahaha the thought of that is pretty funny

I can assure you that a stock r33 gtr will do mid 13's anyday , anywhere and a 2.0 sti ( no 2.5 lt sti's sold in australia , only in usa , but the 2.0 lt is much better engine ) will do mid to high 13.s . I have done it in both 13.5 in the gtr and 13.7 in the sti .

The gtst on the other hand will do high 14.'s and i have done 14.2 in a normal 01 rex ( the slowest of them all ) 99-00 rexes are the fastest .

You wont see a stock gtst fly past a stock rexy at anytime i can assure of that , i have owned plenty both stock amd modified , the gtst will only see the rexes tailpipe from the start to finish .

Now if you are talking about gtr the rexy is not in the race , sti is closer but still not as quick as the gtr .

[SAWAKITA]

I know a guy with MY03 Auto Rex with light mods

All I can say is... its not that slow!! Can only win with GOOD launch.. and I mean GOOD launch.

Also have 2 friends with MY00 STi with some mods around 180awkw.. very fast.. I run once with good launch.. 1st and 2nd I'm in front and after that they just keep on going and i have no chance to get next to them.

[Gonad Man]

I never said you did. The more perceptive people out there would have noticed a question mark at the end of that sentence.

Perhaps you should re-read my post. Then maybe read it again. I think that when I said, "but in answer to your question", clearly showed that I was perceptive enough to realise you had put a question mark at the end of the sentence. It seems you might have missed that.

I sincerely hope you don't rate yourself among the "more perceptive people out there."

My sincerest apologies for airing an opinion that differs from yours (that would be sarcasm if you don't recognise it). You are clearly more qualified (and literate LOL) and as such I dare not disagree with you.

...Ben

[GTRgeoff]

In the wet, I know I've got no chance. I'd try hanging on for as long as I can, just for the challenge, but unless the person behind the wheel is a complete muppet I know its a losing battle

Hah, I've been literally owned in the 220rwkw GTSt track car by a stock imprezza, in the wet. I simply couldn't get smooth power down with a ceramic button clutch and once the wheels start slipping it's a done deal, and that was just normal traffic driving trying to get going up a hill, not "street racing".

In the GTR in the wet, as you take off the front torque transfer almost immediately swings well up the dial. You can drive like it's dry and just take off normally. With 260atw it's pretty easy to induce wheelspin but it's really only 3 that do spin unless using a slippery diff.

Some of you guys spend too much time reading magazines. Get on the track and you'll soon work it out.

[wrxhoon]

".

In the GTR in the wet, as you take off the front torque transfer almost immediately swings well up the dial. You can drive like it's dry and just take off normally. With 260atw it's pretty easy to induce wheelspin but it's really only 3 that do spin unless using a slippery diff.

.

Even in the dry you get torque to the fronts the quicker you take off the more torque to the fronts , you dont have to wheelspin to transfer torque to the front .

[GTRgeoff]

I'm talking of just normal driving, except when the wheelspin cuts in. I have an aversion to adding to the Vic government coffers.

In the GTR33 I find there has to be some loss of traction to get a visible response from the front torque guage, but you can barely feel it.

edit, adding to that, the GTR33 has a fixed front torque preload, while the GTR32 does not, resulting in a more RWD feel. I have been for a spin in Snowmans GTR34 but not driving so I won't comment, but if the improvement is as great as the GTR33 is over the GTR32 then it's good, damn good.

[slow13dude]

I'm talking of just normal driving, except when the wheelspin cuts in. I have an aversion to adding to the Vic government coffers.

 

In the GTR33 I find there has to be some loss of traction to get a visible response from the front torque guage, but you can barely feel it.

 

edit, adding to that, the GTR33 has a fixed front torque preload, while the GTR32 does not, resulting in a more RWD feel.  I have been for a spin in Snowmans GTR34 but not driving so I won't comment, but if the improvement is as great as the GTR33 is over the GTR32 then it's good, damn good.

Off-topic, but.

Do you know if the preset front/rear torque split on the R33 means that the transfer case wears out quicker or it doesn't matter?

[32vspecII]

a guy at my work has a 01 wrx and has spent heaps , he just got the us 2.5l block , forged pistons , big turbo etc etc . spent heaps

it dynod 180 rwkw , 500nm torque and ran a 13 something !

ive seen gtst's with gt30s put down 300rwkw+ and 700nm of torque on std internals

disapointing stuff . it is quite a quick little car at mc so it has its place , but a decent gtr or even a tough gtst would eat it up and a big circuit , street or drag .

[wrxhoon]

a guy at my work has a 01 wrx and has spent heaps , he just got the us 2.5l block , forged pistons , big turbo etc etc . spent heaps  

it dynod 180 rwkw , 500nm torque and ran a 13 something !  

ive seen gtst's with gt30s put down 300rwkw+ and 700nm of torque on std internals  

disapointing stuff

2.5 blocks are crap . A guy i know imported heaps of them ( at least 100 ) but never put one in his rex , he has a 2.2 block .

In many instances you go back when you do mods .

i know of a version 6 sti ( my00) with just power f/c , full exhaust and a little more boost doing 12.5 's .

[scathing]

when I said, "but in answer to your question", clearly showed that I was perceptive enough to realise you had put a question mark at the end of the sentence. It seems you might have missed that.

I was just wondering out loud where you got the idea I was asserting that you had only ever owned the cars originally listed. If you had specifically said that they were all you owned, I wouldn't have needed to ask the question you evidently did notice.

So I didn't miss that, but I was wondering if I was missing something else.....

My sincerest apologies for airing an opinion that differs from yours (that would be sarcasm if you don't recognise it). You are clearly more qualified (and literate LOL) and as such I dare not disagree with you.

There's no need to apologise. I'm all for interesting debate.....as long as we're not using the obsolete definition of it. I have never told anyone that they shouldn't voice their opinion.....but I apply that freedom to myself in telling other people what I think of their opinions too.

[Gonad Man]

a guy at my work has a 01 wrx and has spent heaps , he just got the us 2.5l block , forged pistons , big turbo etc etc . spent heaps  

it dynod 180 rwkw , 500nm torque and ran a 13 something !

That's either a really pessimistic dyno or a very badly setup car.

An STi with an exhaust and retune should produce about 180 kW at all 4 on a DD dyno in shootout mode. Even a 2.5 with a small turbo should really be producing more than 200. I know of a few that are producing over 300 ATW.

Your mate should try a different tuner. It should be a heap quicker than a stocker.

...Ben

[scathing]

Get on the track and you'll soon work it out.

That's where I'm getting a fair bit of my info from. Or even taking it for a spirited drive out in the country.

[32vspecII]

I agree that there is something not right with the car setup but the car has been tuned by the best wrx tuners in wa , they think its totally normal . it runs full autronic management , its had 20-30k thrown at it .

thats not to say its not a quick car . but throw 30k at a gtr and you will get far more impressive results everytime . throw 30k at a gtst and you will have a very hardcore drift weapon

[Gonad Man]

I was just wondering out loud where you got the idea I was asserting that you had only ever owned the cars originally listed. If you had specifically said that they were all you owned, I wouldn't have needed to ask the question you evidently did notice.

No worries, it's all good. Just putting forward my opinion.

As I said I've never really driven an R33 GTSt in anger so I didn't comment.

[Gonad Man]

I agree that there is something not right with the car setup but the car has been tuned by the best wrx tuners in wa , they think its totally normal . it runs full autronic management , its had 20-30k thrown at it .  

thats not to say its not a quick car . but throw 30k at a gtr and you will get far more impressive results everytime . throw 30k at a gtst and you will have a very hardcore drift weapon

Geez. 20-30k thrown at it it really should be an animal. I know the US 2.5 litre short engines are a bit fragile but for that sort of dosh you can fill it with strong internals and it should be pushing 300 kW at all four easily.

I agree with you that an EJ will never produce the ridiculous power outputs that a well-built RB can produce.

...Ben

[shanef]

Pre-loaded launching is gonna smash the box into millions of little bits on a rex, wont affect the clutch. If you want to launch hard, need to start rolling.

A twin turbo sequential set-up on a wrx will have a extremely high top end and also produce the goods down low.

Even better with the twin's is the US 2.5, more torque down low, or even the forester gt block, again more torque.

Obviously the rb is gonna make more power caus of the extra capacity, but the boxer is gonna get there quicker.

Overall if i was gonna lash out on the 45g for the asking price of a new rex i would not even consider the gts-t!

my 2c's

[wrxhoon]

I can assure you hard launches will not smash the box of a stockish rex .

I have done heaps over the years , i have owned several rexes and never smashed a box .

They dont smash them taking off , they usualy brak second gear on flat changes ( 1st to 2nd ).

There is no twin turbo rexes whatsoever , there is a twin scroll single turbo in the 05 sti but not on the normal rex .

There is twin turbo on the b4 but they dont work that well , there is a flat spot ( 4000-4500 )where the small turbo runs out of puf and the next one is still spooling up , thats the reason they droped the twin setup for a twin scroll . It works very well on both the liberty gt and the sti .

[Gonad Man]

Shane,

Just about every gearbox failure I've seen or heard of involved an aftermarket clutch as the stock one is designed to slip before the gearbox goes bang. There are exceptions to this of course but they are in the minority.

I would love a 2.5 but not really for the low-down torque, mainly because I could then run a big-ass turbo without too living with too much lag.

Getting back on topic-I might be able to give a more informed opinion as I'm considering selling the STi and getting myself something cheaper like an R32 GTS-t or even GTR if one comes along at the right price.

...Ben

[scathing]

A twin turbo sequential set-up on a wrx will have a extremely high top end and also produce the goods down low.

True, but if you do a B4 engine swap then you'll have a nice low-end and a free top end, but with a crap mid-range.

Unless you're willing to spend the time and money setting up and tuning your twin turbo setup properly, you're going to hit a nasty flatspot at the point the two turbos change over.

Even if you do, you add a lot of complexity to your setup. If something goes wrong, you're going to have a hell of a job trying to figure out what's failed.

In the end, I'd much rather a EJ20 with a 2.2 stroker kit and a well-matched single turbo. Not as inherently weak as the EJ25 that everyone else has mentioned, but still more torque and better flow characteristics than the stock setup.