Are my front springs/shocks too hard?

[dangerous_daveo]

Easy question I hope.

Are my springs too hard/shocks valved too hard. Basically, you push on the front of the car, and it hardly moves. Now some places say thats too hard, others say its ok, as you have to think of the force of jumping on the brakes at 100kmh+ and too hard with pushing down with body weight goes out the window.

I have no idea how they are valved, but they have kei office 350lb springs.

The other test I thought of was if it dips under brakes. Which I feel it does, until someone said, it could well be the rear of the car going up, not the front going down.

Im beining to think too hard of a front spring could very well be my understeering problem.

If anymore info is needed just post up whats needed.

[Roy]

No idea:( Man, i feel for you, it seems you are trying everything to get the car to your liking.

About the best advice i can give you is park your car, and get a big QLD Ceffie meet going and go for a drive in every single Seffie you can get your hands on...it may help you work out what you want form your car.

What were the corner weights they set the car up with?

[blind_elk]

I had a similar problem. The experts suggested there was evidence that I had been hitting the bump stops, so they shaved a bit off, and the understeer has lessened (other problems have kept some understeer, that's another story).

Try tying a cable-tie tightly around the shocker rod, move it down as far as possible. Now go for a spirited drive, trying to get some understeer. Then check where the cable-tie is sitting. If its right up the top, then you have probably ridden on the bump stops (in which case you have a virtually infinite spring - understeer city!)

[dangerous_daveo]

I had a similar problem. The experts suggested there was evidence that I had been hitting the bump stops, so they shaved a bit off, and the understeer has lessened (other problems have kept some understeer, that's another story).

Try tying a cable-tie tightly around the shocker rod, move it down as far as possible. Now go for a spirited drive, trying to get some understeer. Then check where the cable-tie is sitting. If its right up the top, then you have probably ridden on the bump stops (in which case you have a virtually infinite spring - understeer city!)

Ahhh Good thinking! Because Id also take it, if the thing doesnt move at all (or very very little) then the spring would be obviously too hard.

And Roy. I WILL get this car 100% to my liking. But I do belive atm other than Summoner Mark cefiro, mine is the softes sprung one going about up here I know what insanly hard is like as I've been there. One day tho. Having to do the gearbox has been a bit of a big set back.

[dangerous_daveo]

After actually thinking for once today, I thought hey, lets measure the thickness of this here front sway bar. Its 30mm+ thick. So Id have to say almost 100% front springs are far too hard. So once its back from getting the gearbox changed over, thats the next step.

[edit] So then I remembered to add in the question part...

What would be a recomened spring rate? The rears are at 200lbs, and seem ok. I would have been thinking 270-280 lbs??? Maybe a bit less. And then probably have the need to raise the car a bit more again.

[GTR32]

Hi David;

a couple of observations to take or leave;

drive away quickly from anywhere that asseses your suspension by bouncing it.

30mm is one hell of a sway bar, no? that will affect the car in motion and static, might not be the springs.

my unsolicited advice is to take the suspension out, get it tested ie spring rate / dampers on a proper test ie Roehrig at .123 and .3 m/s so you get high and low speed damper velocity (as opposed to car velocity), find out what the stock specs are for everything including roll bars, and then spend as lttle $ as possible getting it right. it's the only way to do it of you don't know what you have in engineering terms.

yep it's a pain in the bum but there really is no other way to get it right IMHO.

best of luck

[kinggts25]

i had this in my GTiR...they are already horrible for understeer...i stuck in some aftermarket suspension and the front was like rock!! i had MASSIVE understeer after this...i changed to some vw golf gti shock inserts...heeaaps softer and it was almost eliminated!

[blind_elk]

30mm swaybar seems awfully big. The Whiteline upgrade for a R32 is only 24mm (I think you have a Cefiro, is that what a CA31 is?). I would expect your standard bar would be similar to a R32's. A BIG front swaybar will accentuate any tendency for understeer.

[Sydneykid]

30 MM front stabiliiser bar is way too big, I wouldn't go over 27mm adjustable for competition use and 24mm adjustable for road use.:chhers:

[dangerous_daveo]

Ok, this MIGHT be a silly question. But as Im not looking at ways to spend money, is it posible my 30mm sway bar is less stiff than a smaller diametre one? And is there a way to find out?

[someonestolecc]

Take it off and drive around?

[Sciby]

Don't ever take the old "pushing down on the bonnet" test as useful information. A 100kg person pushing down, compared to a 1500kg car rolling its weight forward onto the front suspension = apples and oranges.

I've been in cars where you can push down, and it doesn't move, yet it has a nice gentle ride.

[blind_elk]

Ok, this MIGHT be a silly question.  But as Im not looking at ways to spend money, is it posible my 30mm sway bar is less stiff than a smaller diametre one?

Only if your 30mm bar is hollow and the smaller one is solid.

 And is there a way to find out?

Driving around without it might not make any difference, because the car may now understeer because it's able to induce too much positive camber. Ask someone like Whiteline (their website has a comparison table that might be useful, but you'll need to know what size the factory bar is)