question for REZZ or any one whos been to japan

[mr 32 4door]

just a quick question, how hard would it be to do things in japan with out knowin any of the languge?? i wouldnt mind goin there for a holiday one day but i dont no a word of japanese, do most shop people no a lil bit of english? i also find it hard to learn languges,so thats kind of out of the question. cheers dazz

[Laurence]

If you can read a map, read numbers and count you are all good.

I came to Japan two years ago for a holiday and knew nothing (hell I still can't even make a sentance) but made it around, saw stuff, got drunk, caught the bullet train and even got laid. All without any functional Jap (except a phrase book).

So you will be fine, living here on the other hand, well there are lots of things I would really have struggled with were it not for the assistance of my friend's Japanese wife.

[funkymonkey]

*note to self* sleep with friend's japanese wife to catch a bullet train.

Cheers Goj.

[mr 32 4door]

thanx for ya quick response dude, another thing that i just thought of is there any where to stay away from in japan? like bad areas??gangs ect ect

[Laurence]

I live in one of the seediest areas of Osaka and feel perfectly safe.

Your gaijin powers will protect you. Basically males are very safe here.

[akeenan]

just for a holiday you dont need any japanese. most hotels etc you stay in they will speak english. its when you live here you need the langauge

[The_Paladin]

gaijin, if you didnt know what it means pretty much translates to outsider? someone who isnt Japanese.

something like that.

[Elmo_Chic]

Even when you live here, some places you can survive with very minimal Japanese. I do not know much at all and have lived here almost a year now. If I really need help, plenty of people can help me at work.

It would be nice to know some polite words for a holiday but not necessary. It all depends what areas you are travelling in and what you want to do here.

[akeenan]

  Quote

gaijin, if you didnt know what it means pretty much translates to outsider? someone who isnt Japanese.  

something like that.

foreigner / outsider same thing i guess.

its also the casual/rude version of gaikokujin ...

i hate the ****ing word

[Rezz]

  akeenan said:

foreigner / outsider same thing i guess.

its also the casual/rude version of gaikokujin ...

i hate the ****ing word

Wrong way around there mate 'Gaijin' is the rude shortened disrespectful term and 'gaikokujin' is the full term which is neutral.

[totoro]

mr 32 4 door: i suggest you take one of those phrase books with you so if you are in trouble you can just point to the phrase you want to say. also train maps are in english so as long as you can remember the name you are safe. also helps to be able to read at least 1-9 in kanji as some restaurants have prices in kanji. maybe consider staying in a hostel as well cos there will be other tourists like yourself who can give you a hand while travelling and give you tips or just chill out with guys on the forum.

akeenan: i hope this doesnt offend you but gaijin is not a rude version but a casual one.

and yes it is short for gaikokujin which is literary 'foreign country person' which is pretty much foreigner (and there is nothing wrong with calling some one a foreigner, last i checked).

a lot of westerners/foreigners think its a rude short phrase (i have no idea why?) but its just a shortened version (just like Dori Kin=Dorifuto King), japanese ppl are the masters of shortening words and phrases. just as anyone who speaks english will shorten japanese to jap which i hate very much but has not stopped the rest of the world to shorten it because they are too lazy to say japanese or even spell it (even in this forum). so if you hate gaijin because you think it is rude or a racist slur then you are sadly mistaken. if you hate it for other reasons than that then its not for me to comment.

personally i hate being called jap.

[Laurence]

  totoro said:

personally i hate being called jap.

Well that is because the word Jap is pretty rude, I would never say Jap to a Japanese person. I would possibly refer to an object as Jap though.

But you are definitely right about shortening.

I went to KFC and had a RED HOT SAND, which completely confused me until it clicked as RED HOT SAND(wich). There are lots of other examples, none of which spring to mind.

As for politeness in English, I regularly tell my students that in English the longer it is the more polite it is (usually).

[Rezz]

I've heard 'gaijin' being used as a derogatory term here too many times for it to be considered just a shortened word and nothing more... although I do agree for the most part that it is just a shortened noun due to what totoro pointed out with the Japanese being 'word shortening masters'.

If I had to classify it as something (in an 'on the street' context) I'd have to say that the term gaijin is derogatory. Gaikokujin on the other hand would be neutral.

[mr 32 4door]

thanx for all ya help guys. i just need to save my dollers now.

[someonestolecc]

I'm with totoro.

Gaijin isn't specifically derogatory. It's a descriptive word and refers to someone that is a foreigner.. As far as I know it doesn't hold any derogatory context in itself... It's contextually and tonally dependant whether it's used in derogatory fashion, much like the english word "foreigner".

I also hate the term japs, i.e. "the japs", "jap cars".. but I recognise most times it's laziness rather than racism. These words aren't comparable in this arguement however as one is culturally inclusive while the other is culturally exclusive.. itself a notable commentary on J-culture

[liber8_d]

I also had a strong belief that gaijin was a derogatory term, meaning something like 'crazy foriegner' or 'stupid foriegner'. Know several people who have lived there for a while, several of whom have Japanese wives.

Funniest moment from my Japan trip: mostly just us guys at an onsen, and my friend's dad went to take his camera(don't ask) back to the lockers. He came running back in and did a bomb in like that guy in the beer ad into the spa. A middle aged Japanese man had come in and sat near the entry to the onsen. He got splashed something fierce. Japanese man:"(Pissed off sounding Japanese words) gaijin (some more pissed off sounding Japanese words.)

Back on topic: When I went to Japan earlier this year for a ski trip, I had only basic numbers and greetings etc, plus a few others and I got on fine. The two most important words to know in Japanese: ichi biru! Seriously, most accomadation places will have someone fairly english fluent on the staff, or tour operators etc do as well and you can ask them to organise things or call people for you if you get stuck.

P.S. Stay away from a beer called 'Draught One' at all costs; it became known among us as 'dog fart beer', due to said odour upon can opening. 'Asahi Super Dry' and 'Sapporo Draught' are both decent beers.

[Rezz]

  someonestolecc said:

I'm with totoro.

Gaijin isn't specifically derogatory. It's a descriptive word and refers to someone that is a foreigner.. As far as I know it doesn't hold any derogatory context in itself... It's contextually and tonally dependant whether it's used in derogatory fashion, much like the english word "foreigner".

No I don't agree. 'Gaijin' is (in part) derogatory... if it weren't, then why don't our Japanese staff ever use it when talking about foreigners? Even when they're talking amongst themselves (and not using 'keigo' - polite language) they still use 'gaikokujin' in order *not* to offend... I've asked them this more than a few times and they specifically don't want to use 'gaijin'. This all happens with me in earshot by they way... if I was out of the room though, I'm sure gaijin would soon pop up (in a non-derogatory sense). This happens on a daily basis for me and I think it might best describe the situation.

[totoro]

well i knew ppl will have their own opinions (glad to see the sensibility here) and im fine as long as others who are not familiar with japanese do not get the wrong impression without knowing the background information...

also on the topic of beer i heard there are some beers that taste like beers cos the authorities are cracking down on drink driving! so keep your eyes open for those and stay away cos apparently they are crap as...

[Nozila]

  Gojira said:

Basically males are very safe here.

what about the females?

[Nozila]

some of you guys have lived in japan way too long while others not long enough. Yes, gaijin is considered rude just as much as jap is considered rude. But ppl still use it and there's not much you can do about it.