Stagea Brakes

[KiwiRS4T]

On 5/06/2017 at 3:12 PM, Stagea_Neo said:

Thanks Duncan and Bob.

1-2cm extra pedal travel, a tad soft compared to original.

Previously could just rest / weight of my foot on brake pedal to start pulling up. 

Does the much same after swap, but needs a bit extra pressure applied.

Not triggering abs like used to, which was quite easy previously. 

Doesn't feel spongy/sloppy, pulls up a lot better than original setup.

I've bled all calipers, cleared any air bubbles.

Maybe i do the bleed procedure again. RL, RR, FL, FR

Wish to get it back to where it was with just lightest of pedal push.

Cheers,

Pete

 

If you have higher brake piston area with the same M/C then your pedal will travel a little further but that does not affect brake performance - its just like fitting a lower ratio diff.

If you haven't already done it you can ameliorate this a little with a M/C stopper and braided brake lines or as Trex says after a while you will just get used to it.

[Stagea_Neo]

Thanks again Bob for taking the time to share knowledge 

I follow what your'e saying.

 

What's got me scratching my head a little, is the r34gtt  and my s2 both use the BM50 M/C... what else to investigate.

I was thinking the booster maybe different, but haven't had one to visually inspect and/or compare part numbers.

 

I've used the r34 lines for a few months, but they a bit long and not stock.

l then went back the original c34 banjo bolt setup last week, pulled the nipples an kept full length bolts,

rather than cutting bolts to fit, as like to keep things safe/to spec.

The feel is the same, got used to it, braking is great a lot better/shorter distance than standard c34, can pull very hard if u want it to.

Just missing that re-assurance of the abs triggering like it previously did.

 

Have been looking at a MC Stopper. Do you have any suggestions? 

I plan to get one asap.

I was checking out. The UAS I like as it neat and less look at me, but do these fit a Stag?

ie.

http://www.uniqueautosports.com.au/Parts-Shop/uas-master-cylinder-stopper-649.aspx

http://justjap.com/cusco-brake-master-cylinder-stopper-nissan-skyline-bcnr33-bnr34.html

 

Found Mitcham Brake Place via this website, https://www.braidedhoses.com.au/ been chatting to the owner/mechanic (Awesome Guy)

on and off recently about some custom lines as there seems to be nothing of the shelf for the Stagea or from wholesale.

(unles someone knows otherwise)

We saw lots of examples for skylines like below.

http://www.kudosmotorsports.com/catalog/nismo-braided-brake-line-nissan-skyline-25gt-p-1365.html

 

Here's a pic of some fittings he had on hand we looking at using compared to original, from the axle stub mount down to the caliper.  Doing measurements, etc.. before we go ahead.

It's just the last section of line to the caliper on a Stagea that's a nuisance compared to the skyline.

 

If anyone else reading feel free to chip in, I take all advice and give back where I can, be good for others looking into this in future.

 

PS. Just one more Q. Do you recon chucking in a BM57 BMC will help me achieve/get back to what im after in addition to stopper and braided lines?

 

Cheers,

Pete

pss. That pic is looking down at the drivers side line/block mount as it would be mounted in vehicle.

The line inlet on the on all three is facing towards bottom of the pic.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Stagea_Neo

[KiwiRS4T]

Pretty sure my M/c stopper was an R33 one. If you look at them you could probably make one fairly easily. I got brake lines from an Australian company called Maltech ...they did a run for Stageas but were fairly expensive and not sure if they are around any more. Maybe a brake specialist can make them up for you.

I would be reluctant to suggest you get a BM57 as they are hard to come by (R34GTR is the best bet used) and expensive new.

[Trex]

I used nismo 33 lines on my fronts. And the bmc stopper is also a 33 one, you'd be surprised that standard master cylinder has about 10-15mm of deflection at full brake peddle pressure. The UAS one looks like the old cusco style, it does a good job as its supported and wraps around the tower which makes it more stable and deflects less when pressure is applied. There are plenty of shit ones that do nothing...

[Trex]

My brake setup is way overkill for what i do with the car. Braided lines, bmc stopper, soft cross over pads, t3 rotors, etc. The pedal is still soft with the bm50. You do get used to it though.and the soft pads help bite early so it gives you the impression the pedal travel isn't as bad.

[Stagea_Neo]

Thanks again Bob and Tom,

 

I think I will get that UAS stopper, liked the look of it.

 

I found a listing in Drysdale Vic for Maltech, they also on that braided hoses site i mentioned a few posts back.

Looks like them, brakes, clutches etc..

 

I'll have a chat to the guy the brake guy, see what he advises on the BM57 b4 purchasing, he's already confirmed he

can make up braided lines. We just going to make sure measurements are spot on and the order the right hose fittings

to ensure all lines up and bolts on correctly.

 

Kudos have a R34 GTR BM57 one for a decent price. That's made sourcing nice and easy

http://www.kudosmotorsports.com/catalog/brake-master-cylinder-bm57-1716-nissan-skyline-p-538.html

 

I've attached this scan of a faded print i forgot about (sorry), with some lines/fittings, the brake guy got this of his suppliers site and then he

can make them to suit length wise. It looks pretty close.

 

I went the t3 slotted also, bendix general ct and bled through approx 1.4 ltrs castrol dot 4 just to make sure all fresh new fluid/no bubbles.

 

Overkill, naah i look at it as over engineered for longevity and safety

 

I'll let you know how it all go's.

Cheers,

Pete

 

 

[Stagea_Neo]

I ended up getting the UAS bmc since the last post, can notice a bit of difference there. thanks for the tip

Currently sourcing some spare front brakes lines, so the brake guy can use them as a template to make things easier,

and my car doesn't have to be off the road for too long.

[oxford1327]

On 03/03/2017 at 7:14 PM, TukeH said:

Here is few pictures and my dog 

Quality seems very good. I will buy same brakes later on my stagea 

Have you since put the same kit on your stagea? If so what diameter wheels do you have to be using to clear that caliper setup? And also can you supply part numbers and where you got them from? .

I have just purchased a set of 18inch rims and my puny 34gtt brakes wont clear the inside of the spokes,so have no choice but to go bigger, which is a damn shame.....

[KiwiRS4T]

16 minutes ago, oxford1327 said:

Have you since put the same kit on your stagea? If so what diameter wheels do you have to be using to clear that caliper setup? And also can you supply part numbers and where you got them from? .

I have just purchased a set of 18inch rims and my puny 34gtt brakes wont clear the inside of the spokes,so have no choice but to go bigger, which is a damn shame.....

You don't need to get bigger diameter wheels - I had 17in wheels with GTT brakes at one point - you need to check the design of the wheel and the offset - trial fit first!

BTW those AP brakes are probably worth as much as your Stagea. Cheaper ones will do the job....(D2, K-Sport).

[oxford1327]

1 hour ago, KiwiRS4T said:

You don't need to get bigger diameter wheels - I had 17in wheels with GTT brakes at one point - you need to check the design of the wheel and the offset - trial fit first!

BTW those AP brakes are probably worth as much as your Stagea. Cheaper ones will do the job....(D2, K-Sport).

The car already has 297mm GTT brakes on the fronts, and the wheels I have bought from Canada are the correct offsets for a stagea/skyline, 18"×9" (+30) and the company that makes them assured me they would clear the brakes, but I'm sure they were only considering external clearances around the outer of the caliper, the issue I'm having is the inner side/diameter of the caliper is hitting the spokes of the rim, therefore I need to increase the diameter of the discs to move the the caliper further from the hub centre, I did consider using a spacer but to achieve a decent amount of clearance the spacer would need to be 15mm minimum thickness.

I'm considering the swap to maybe 350Z brembo's or GTR 325mm units but if I can get them at the right price I'd look at 340 or 355mm ones, just depends what comes along for a reasonable cost. 

But im always open to suggestions for options etc....

[Duncan]

sounds like a wheel spoke problem, and changing them may well be the cheapest way out. you mean the spokes hit the caliper as they curve into the hub, right?

But I saw you have the option in your WTB thread to space them out, that might get around the issue.

BTW be careful when looking at second hand brake setup prices. When you take into account known pad and disc thickness, and possible brake line issues, the G4/Attkd/D2 etc ones have always looked like better value to me, brand new in a full set....

[oxford1327]

yes it is the inner part of the spokes where they taper back to the hub, they are fouling on the inner side of the calipers, so if I'm able to move the calipers I have with a dogbone/adapter plate outward towards the barrel of the wheel would most likely clear no problem if it were to be a 324mm disc that would shift the caliper 13mm away from the centre of the hub and more than likely provide enough clearance, while also retaining the existing caliper/pad set as they have been identified as being R33 GTST calipers with a 297mm rotor.

bloody first world problems hahaha as in:  "oh man I had to get bigger brakes to clear my wheels"

[David_j_p]

I have a Series 2 Year 2000 model Stagea.

After 8 years of stock brakes with a master cylinder stopper,  I did the R34 GTT Sumitomo "Brake Upgrade" with brand new standard RDA rotors a couple of months ago.  I'm now at the tail end of bedding in because I don't drive it much.

From what I read up on, the BM50 that's stock on the  S2 is isufficient, and it feels sufficient to me.  There is barely any difference to brake pedal travel to me.

Only yesterday, for the first time since the upgrade I used the brakes somewhat hard, and I'm not yet convinced that they will pull up the Stagea any better than stock.  It's a bit early to tell as yet.

So far the the only advantages from the upgrade would be:

- Weight reduction because they are alloy.

- Greater heat dissipation because they are alloy and the Rotors have larger mass, therefore less brake fade.

- Won't be prone to warping because of the above.

- R34 brake rotors and pads will always be readily available, and possibly cheaper, being more common.

- The Sumitomos look sexy!

Will post again in a couple of months with my final verdict.

[KiwiRS4T]

Did this conversion many years ago. They will not pull you up any better than stock but they will do it more often without fading. Good if you regularly tow stuff or for track days.

[David_j_p]

Wasn't yours a Series 1?

[KiwiRS4T]

51 minutes ago, David_j_p said:

Wasn't yours a Series 1?

Yes.  After I went RB30 I came across a set of D2 330mm 8 pots for the front and some GTR 2 pots for rear. I fitted a BM57 M/C but the BM50 may well have done. With Pagid pads it would stop lap after lap with hard use...

[David_j_p]

I'm comparing the Sumitomos to the twin pot fronts from the Series 2. They pulled up the old girl pretty well to start with.  The pads also had a huge surface area compared to the Sumitomo.

Yes I do tow, so the heat and fade thing is important.

The R34 GTT brakes would surely be a noticable upgrade on an S1. They were pretty poor to start with.

[KiwiRS4T]

Yes they are a cost effective upgrade!

[David_j_p]

After some normal driving and spirited driving on winding roads, I have not found any noticeable difference with pedal feel or effort required to stop up the Stag.  The original S2 brakes where pretty good to start with.  What I did find was a noticeable reduction in brake fade, especially with towing.  When pushed the original set up would fade, but with these Sumitomos, they don't seem to get to fade point.

[Stagea_Neo]

I'm going through the brake upgrade path again, my last Stag got written off not long after my last post in this thread.

Brought another stag, and I've been fortunate enough to get some R34GTR VSPEC Brembo's with discs in mint condition.

 

I'm curious has anyone else fitted the 324mm disc on the rear of their stag?

The disc is too large and hits the backing shield lip.

 

One option is to trim the lip off, which i prefer not to do as it will look crap and it was obviously engineered to

cover the outer edge/circumference of the disc for a reason.

 

Has anyone here tried or heard of anyone fitting an R34GTR  disc backing shield to their stag?