Ceramic Coatings - Dumps and Front Pipes.

[R32 TT]

Hi guys,

Just a question on Ceramic coatings.

I have just bought some s/h Mines Dump pipes. I already have some HKS front pipes. New turbos are on their way.

When the whole system is apart and out of the car, I was thinking of ceramic coating the Dump Pipes and Front pipes to keep the heat in and therfore keep the gas velocity up. (as well as keep a little heat out of the engine bay).

I have heard/read of ceramic coating causing issues.

Some say only coat the outside of the pipe.

Some say do inside and out.

Some have even said don't do it as it makes the pipes crack??

My gut feeling is to do both inside and out, and that the ceramic would actually make the pipes last longer as it would be keeping the extreme temperatures from reaching the actual metal itself.

Then of course there are a few different flavours of ceramic coating...

Any experiences? Recommendations?

Cheers,

Matt.

[fatz]

bumpy

anyone one have where when and how much in sydney

cheers

Peter

[willyr33]

bumpy

anyone one have where when and how much in sydney

cheers

Peter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand that the only ceramic coating for turbo manifolds is the Black stuff (extreme coat),as the alloy looking ceramic can,t handle the excessive temps,and after awhile cracks and flakes off.Also the black coating is much more exspensive.

Try High Perfomance Coatings. www.hpcoatings.com.au

[fatz]

I understand that the only ceramic coating for turbo manifolds is the Black stuff (extreme coat),as the alloy looking ceramic can,t handle the excessive temps,and after awhile cracks and flakes off.Also the black coating is much more exspensive.

Try High Perfomance Coatings.    www.hpcoatings.com.au

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

spoke to them 450

man im going to have to rob a bank

how much is thermal tape

[GTRgeoff]

Again, rob the bank.......

[fatz]

mmm bank robbing

anyone have a plan

[Roy]

Competition Coatings in Guildford NSW did my dump, manifold, exhaust housing etc etc. much cheaper then HPC and do the same thing, and the stuff is still looking good on my car after 2 years

[Busky2k]

Normally you coat in & out.

I thermowraped mine. The roll was about $50. Pretty easy to do, and just as effective IMO. Some say it makes the metal fatigue over time but after 2 years of using it, I've had no troubles at all. You'd be foolish to wrap a turbo manifold however.

[R32 TT]

Competition Coatings in Guildford NSW did my dump, manifold, exhaust housing etc etc. much cheaper then HPC and do the same thing, and the stuff is still looking good on my car after 2 years

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you rate it Roy? Besides the fact that it still looks good of course. Do you think that there really are benefits in better spool time and more power to be had from it all?

I'm sure it keeps underbonnet temps down a little - and perhaps even extends the life of the components coated - but I am more interested in the true gains in performance, and keeping the ait flow up.

A negative feature was suggested to me: And that was that since I am keeping the exhaust temp so hot (because it can't lose heat so easily) that I would be putting further stress on the internals of my turbine and bearing etc! <_< catch 22? Or irrelevant do you think?

[Roy]

If you are hopign to get something ceramic coated and see a performance gain, then id say there are better waysto spend your money.

That said, mine is ceramic coated, adn wrapped in exhaust wrap (why is it not a good idea to do the manifold???) and the under bonnet temos are now much better. Before with just the ceramic coating, they were better then without, but still far from acceptable.

On a whole, helping the life of a component (corrosion protection etc) the asesthetics, the under bonnet temps and the theoretical gas velocity improvement etc...adding it all up its agood thing since its reasonalb y cheap....but i would be amazed if you made a single hp more, or boost came on any quicker

[JCMarshall_Law]

I've done it on a couple of motorbike manifolds (CBR600 for Formula SAE cars). HPC coatings in Brendale, QLD did ours. It is hard to believe we got any Hp gain but they are still going strong after two years of 13,000 rpm rev limit driving, not a hint of flaking or rusting of the metal underneath (inside or out). We are pretty sure it helped the heat radiation, the exhaust manifold was less than 200mm from the drivers back, obviously there was a couple of thermal sheilds (sheets of ally and a carbon fiber seat) between the driver and the manifold. Overall I think it is pretty expensive for the gains and I would not be doing it unless someones gives me $100,000 to build a race car again.

[Roy]

Your SAE car cost 100K!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My god, which Uni?

[JCMarshall_Law]

Your SAE car cost 100K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  My god, which Uni?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

2003 University of Queensland

Yeah, we burned cash that year, we found the most expensive everything and used that. The uni really wanted us to win so they gave us a blank cheque. We did have the best car by a long shot - first in acceleration and enduro and first placed Austrlian car!

I own the car now, I bought it off the team last year minus the engine and few other bits, see my thread here: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...=0#entry1528749

Edited August 18, 2005 by JCMarshall_Law

[r33_racer]

People use the hpc coatings for pistons...so they must hold up pretty good...i know they do alot of race cars and drag cars cause theres genereally a pantec parked in their lot every month or so.

If your keeping the heat in...i would think since the flow is going towards the exhaust and outwards then it wouldnt sorta reverb back onto the head and block...but your engine is constantly being cooled anyway...if anything it would simply be decreasing the cooling job of the coolant making its job a little harder.

Every jap race car i see has their manifold completely wrapped. Good or bad thing? Gotta find a middle ground for everything, less heat radiation and improved heat energy flow or excess heat and wear on engine and attached ancillary items. Overall prob doesnt make a massive difference. Only massive difference is ofcourse decreasing the under bonnet temp as stated already. But for wear and performance issues prob not so much.

Edited August 18, 2005 by r33_racer

[predator]

I just wrapped my new dump pipe over the weekend.. makes a massive difference to underbonnet temps for what its worth.. i'd estimate around 10-20 degrees after pushing it.. and you can pretty much touch the dump pipe after running it, which would melt your fingers instantly if it was just the plain dump.. The turbo seems to be sitting a bit cooler as well.

you'd need a couple of rolls for a twin.. this is about as far as i got on the single..

Doubt it will matter unless u are sitting on boost all the time.. for a street car probably not worth it.. but for heavy track, mountain, or drift use when you're always on the boost it would make a difference.

[lwells]

Time to resurrect a thread

So I have a few parts I want to install on my R32 GT-R shortly...

1) HKS GT-SS

2) Trust/Greddy Front Ext. Pipes

3) Magic Cat

4) Fujitsubo exhaust

Anyway, I need some advice on the best way to insulate the various parts. I did a search, and found this, this and this threads helpful. However I still have questions

Lets start with.... what exactly should I be insulating? Manifolds, exhaust side of turbos, front pipes and cat? Are there any other parts? For instance, SK mentions wrapping the heat shields as well. Should I insulate up to, or including, the cat, or all the way to the muffler?

Next, what's the best method for each part. The major ways I have come across are (a) exhaust wrap (b) ceramic coating ( c) HPC. Everyone raves about HPC, but I am always amazed at the cost: e.g. $400 for a manifold. Some say that wrapping can lead to cracking, but Rev210 is definately of the opinion that wrapping is just as good as coating and the cracking issues are overblown.

So what's best? Should I wrap the dump/fronts, manifolds and cat? That still leaves the turbos which obviously can't be wrapped, so I have the choice of a turbo bag or some sort of coating. Turbo bags seem to be about $200-250ea (so about $500 for both) which seems a little exxy. R32 TT: how much was the ceramic coating that you got done?

Anyway, some suggestions would be appreciated.

[lwells]

Someone must have gone down this path before...?

[mokompri]

heat wrapping/coating anything after the exhaust housing should only be considered for under bonnet heat issues or other heat related issues, there is no performance gain to be had.

in fact in theory, not having it wrapped and allowing more heat dissipation will allow more mass of exhaust gas to flow through the exhaust, as it is denser. although this gain is probably a minute and immeasurable amount, it tells you that there isnt anything to gain either.

So what's best? Should I wrap the dump/fronts, manifolds and cat?

you shouldnt wrap or coat your cat at all, you dont want to cook your cat !

[lwells]

heat wrapping/coating anything after the exhaust housing should only be considered for under bonnet heat issues or other heat related issues, there is no performance gain to be had.

in fact in theory, not having it wrapped and allowing more heat dissipation will allow more mass of exhaust gas to flow through the exhaust, as it is denser. although this gain is probably a minute and immeasurable amount, it tells you that there isnt anything to gain either.

you shouldnt wrap or coat your cat at all, you dont want to cook your cat !

I'm not interested in proported performance gains. Heat is the real issue as it can adversely effect reliability and longevity.

Regarding wrapping the cat, Thermo Tec believe its fine and I have read in another thread that its acceptable and actually improve the emissions performance because the cat reaches operating temperature sooner.

Edit: Quite the contrary of what you have said regarding exhast gas flow, I have also read on numerous occasions that its advantageous to keep the heat in (again, this goes back to the proported performance gains).

[rev210]

do both if you can afford it.

For those with room in the backyard for an old oven or kiln you can buy the exact same ceramic coating stuff in tins and do it yourself. Search on google, there is a site in the US that makes this stuff.

The performance gain comes from retaining the thermal energy inside the pipe. If you can retain the engery in the pipe the velocity of the gas increases as it has more energy. Cast iron is better than mild steel uncoated in this regard. Quite a good idea to coat the exhaust turbine housing and then turbo beanie it too.