R32 Gtr Club/circuit Susp. Recommendations

[Roy]

See - independant SOP tests prove that the big brakes on my car have made a difference! LOL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeh, i found that my buck fitty upgrade gave me a little more confidence and it was easier to pull the car up, but as far as lap times go, how much quicker.

Like i asked before...and im asking cause im curious, not trying to be argumentative, do you think that since my current brake setup is similar to the std R34GTR (same rotor size, 4 piston caliper, ill trade the Brembo for Sumitomo and my lighter weight) would you expect me to be able to go from 1:25s at Sandown to 1:22s with 365 x 32mm rotors with AP 6 pots??? I doubt it would, but it seems thats the improvement you are attributing to the brake upgrade?!?!?!?!

If the theory fails to deliver in practice then i would like to know....

[BBGTR]

Benno does all of our set-ups.

If it's for the track Benno will do it as good as anyone down here. For example he has my car right now which he just takes for spins on his "test track" and tinkers with it all getting settings just right.

The GT-R's can be fickle to set-up right as ride heights - including front to rear differences can have significant impact on the effectiveness of the Attessa system.

As Duncan mentioned for the R32's looking at one of the Attessa controllers would be a good benifit as well. Will certainly help reduce the taily nature of the car.

For the brakes you'll find Howard will probably recommend the 365mm AP 6 pot upgrade (same as Frank has). I'm running the same calipers with 375mm rotors. But the 365mm upgrade is the "standard" one and has everything ready for straight bolt in. And despite what anyone may try and tell you - the big front brake upgrade makes a HUGE difference. I found the standard brake set-up to be a bit rear biased and at places like turn 1 Sandown the rear of the car really wanted to come around - but after the AP upgrade it's so much more balanced under brakes and you can be so much more aggressive.

For rims - the other one to look at maybe is the R34 GT-R rims. I have a set of them at home (which you can't have!) if you wanted to physically test them out if they become an option for you. Russel (giant) from QLD has them on his monster R32 that cleaned up us all at Dutton (is running the AP's as well). They did some nice 1.33's at Winton which is impressive given they never had been there before and only got 2 laps in which to set that time!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Snowman,

Do you know if Russel is running the AP 6 pot 365 mm set up with his R34 RIMS?

I can get a hold of some I think far quicker than any TE37's at the moment.

What is the offset on the R34 Rims by the way....

This thread is turning out to be very useful.

Regards

Andrew

[Roy]

The IP GTR used to run DMS, but now it has Proflex in there.  Big improvement, around 1 sec a lap faster in qualifying and 12 seconds faster over 10 laps. 

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok. I have to ask, what are the 45mm Proflex Shocks worth??? A bit over 3k for the DMS, only to have heard plenty of mixed reviews, but then there is an R32 GTR down in Vic running DMS that is doing 1:16-18s or something at Sandown....it wouldnt be so hard if this gear was only a few hundred dollars, and if you made a boo-boo could sell for a small loss.

The new springs will be going in with my current Bilsteins at the start of Sep, but i so wish i could convince my work to give me some sponsorhip coin so that i can splash some cash on my car....

[Sydneykid]

Ok. I have to ask, what are the 45mm Proflex Shocks worth??? A bit over 3k for the DMS, only to have heard plenty of mixed reviews, but then there is an R32 GTR down in Vic running DMS that is doing 1:16-18s or something at Sandown....it wouldnt be so hard if this gear was only a few hundred dollars, and if you made a boo-boo could sell for a small loss.

The new springs will be going in with my current Bilsteins at the start of Sep, but i so wish i could convince my work to give me some sponsorhip coin so that i can splash some cash on my car....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You really need to ask Murray, there are so many options and you already have some parts, springs etc. No "mixed reviews" for DMS from me, they are great value for money and really the next logical step up from the Bilsteins. Keep in mind that the GTR team owner has a good budget and Proflex were the next logical step in the suspension development. Plus there is enough knowledge in the team to use them, that may not have been the case 12 months ago.

What ever shock you choose make sure you get the screw on lower mount (not welded on) and order both fork and bush mounts. That way they can be used on GTR's as well as GTST's, easier to sell if you ever decide to. Or you might get a GTR one day, then you can keep the shocks that you know.

cheers

[Mr R32 M-Spec]

Have you run in that class in oran park in the last 2 months or so?

I was flag marshalling at turn 4, man the cars looked hot going! but didn't seem to be doing too well, RX7 was beating them.

Did one of them scrape the wall?

mark

[Scotsman]

I saw the car finish second in Race 3 at Oran Park after the restart. It was on speedweek on Sunday in the 2lt + IP. Excellent effort!

The car looks sweet sydneykid. I love how it shoots straght to the front!!

I'd like to know more about the restrictions put on you guys to be able to compete in the class. They were discussing restrictors on SBS...

Anyway keep up the good work.

[Sydneykid]

I saw the car finish second in Race 3 at Oran Park after the restart.  It was on speedweek on Sunday in the 2lt + IP.  Excellent effort!

The car looks sweet sydneykid.  I love how it shoots straght to the front!!

I'd like to know more about the restrictions put on you guys to be able to compete in the class.  They were discussing restrictors on SBS...

Anyway keep up the good work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We get this question all the time. The Improved production regulations are very harsh on turbo cars. They have to run a restrictor (1 X 36mm for a single turbo and 2 X 27mm for twin turbos), this limits the power significantly. Restrictors are a great device to limit the top speed, which is what they were designed to do in WRC, stop them hitting the trees at 300 kph. They still pull of the corners very well because of the torque, but they hit the wall at around 220 kph and just stop accelerating. So OK on some circuits (Oran Park) but not so good on others (Philip Island).

Add that to the natural weight that a late model car has to carry and then the 4wd weight that the GTR carries. There are no restrictors on N/A engines. This means you have a 1400kg GTR with less than 400 bhp competiing against an RX7 with 1050 kgs and 325 bhp. Tyres sizes are also important as they are a control tyre (A032R) and under 3 litres are limited to 7" wide rims and Over 3 litre to 8" wide rims.

There are more than 10 RX7's in the class and the GTR is in front of them all but one. BTW that RX7 is in our race team and it is well driven by a class driver and is very well prepared with great engines and top class suspension (Ohlins). It is undefeated in NSW this season and is also leading the Vic Improved Production Championship. No one has ever won the Victorian State Championship and the NSW State Championship in the same year, that's the trarget.

I am sure if we had no turbo restrictors we could win everything with a GTR, it was the best Group A Touring Car ever made after all. But that's not what IP racing is all about, all cars (turbo, rotary, 4, 6 and 8) have a chance, if you are good enough of course.

cheers

Edited August 15, 2005 by Sydneykid

[t01-100]

Sydneykid - Do you guys have any other imported cars, even GTSts running?

[Sydneykid]

Sydneykid - Do you guys have any other imported cars, even GTSts running?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because of the restrictors, Late Model turbo cars are not so popular, the GTR is changing that though. We have a few Rex's and and an Evo or 2, a couple of Mazda GTX's and there are some GTST's that run in Tas as a result of the Targa classes. There is a move in WA to kill off their unique Street Car class and move the cars to the National IP regs next year. There are couple of Evo's and 180's and a GTST over there. Because of the circuit (Mallala) , there are a number of Early Model turbo cars (1200, 120Y, 808 etc) over there that do very well.

I personally have an R32GTST (the one in the signature) that is built to IP regs. But I don't have much time to race it, the race team cars always take priority. I have a new RB31DET just about ready to go in it, for use at non regs track days. Just for some fun, of course.

cheers

[t01-100]

I'm from Tas and run in Targa Class, but was unsure if IP was the same 'Improved Historic' over there as it is here!

[Rowdyr32]

Sydneykid do you have all of your suspension geometry, spring rates, ride height and swaybar sizes for your R32 gtr. I'm in the process of building up a track orientated street car and was hoping you could help me out with these figures to make it a bit easier. It came with cusco solid front upper links, adjustable rears and tein castor rods and HA's.

Any help would be appriciated.

[Mr R32 M-Spec]

Just with your signature there rowdy, I'm interested in how you crashed it before compliance?

mark

[Roy]

At Sandown, and the accident was evidence enough that you should never push a car as quick as a GTR on the street, save it for the track.

If you do a search, Sydney kid has posted suggestions for GTRs before. If you are sticking wiht road rubebr then i think the settings were about -2.0 front camber, -1.0 rear. About 6.5/6.0 front castor, 0 toe front and rear. As for springs, just run whatever the HAs come with until you are in a better position to see how the car works, and how you like hte car to feel once you ave played with the swaybars

[Sydneykid]

Sydneykid do you have all of your suspension geometry, spring rates, ride height and swaybar sizes for your R32 gtr. I'm in the process of building up a track orientated street car and was hoping you could help me out with these figures to make it a bit easier. It came with cusco solid front upper links, adjustable rears and tein castor rods and HA's.

Any help would be appriciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pretty much as Roy posted. But not a lot is transferable from the IP GTR as it runs Proflex shocks. My own GTR (Bilstein shock) settings follow;

Caster, as much as you can get before the front of the tyres hit the guards, usualy ~6 degrees positive

Camber, varies from circuit to circuit, we also run stagger (different side to side) on some circuits. On the front, never less than 2.5 degrees negative and never more than 4 degree negative. On the rear, between 1 and 2 degrees negative.

Front stabiliser bar is a Whiteline 24mm (solid) adjustable, most circuits on the softest setting, sometimes 1 or 2 up from that, harldy ever at hardest setting. Rear stabiliser bar is a Whiteline 24mm (solid) adjustable, most circuits on the middle 2 settings. I also have a 22mm (solid) adjustable for when it rains, the 24mm, even on the softest setting is too much antiroll.

The final camber settings are determined by tyre temperatures on the day, some circuits (eg; Eastern Creek) have constantly changing grip levels during the day. So easily accesable and referenced stabiliser bar adjustments are an advantage.

The front diff is a 1 way and the rear is a 1.5 way, it has 2 extra plates in the transfer case and an ATTESSA controller is fitted, I like the 30/70 (front/rear) setting in the dry. Around 60/40 seems better in the wet, sometimes.

I run a little anti dive on the front and quite a bit of anti squat on the rear as the rear spring rate is quite soft at 200 to 250 lbs per inch. The front spring rate is 400 lbs to 500 lbs, depending on the circuit.

Most important, the ride height, I run 350 mm centre of wheel to guard on the front with around 10 mm of rake in the dry and 15 mm in the wet or slippery conditions. Obviously it is corner weighted to get the diagonals where I want them, again I run stagger on some circuits.

There are so many adjustments available (suspension and 4wd) it is very easy to get lost. When you add the IP car's adjustable bump and rebound settings, you can go round in circles chasing the setup. The best suggestion I can make is to decide on the basic settings and then use the stabiliser bars adjustment to fine tune it on the day.

Hope that was of some help

cheers

[BBGTR]

Sydneykid,

Thanks for sharing all of this, it's refreshing to see that people are willing to share something that takes time and money to acquire.

Regards

Andrew

[INASNT]

Suggestions follow;

1. I wouldn't recommend anything bigger than 2530's on a circuit GTR 2.6 litre.  And I am not alone, almost all the fast Jap workshop GTR's use 2530's on the circuit.

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting thread.

I seen a few DVD's from track days in Japan recnetly and alot of the quickest GTR's were running big singles, some even T88's.

If you shop around you can get the whiteline adjustable swaysbars for around $175 each.

Edited August 17, 2005 by INASNT

[Rowdyr32]

Thanks for all that information. I can't thank you enough sydneykid. All i need to do now is have a play and see how it goes.

Also do you use any type of data loging?

[BBGTR]

Thanks for all that information. I can't thank you enough sydneykid. All i need to do now is have a play and see how it goes.

Also do you use any type of data loging?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I use one of these, it's the best $1,300 I've ever spent in terms of analysing lap times.

http://www.race-technology.com/WebPage2/Pr...L1/DL1Home.html

Regards

Andrew

[Sydneykid]

Interesting thread.

I seen a few DVD's from track days in Japan recnetly and alot of the quickest GTR's were running big singles, some even T88's.

The GTR records as still held by cars with twins though. A lot of the stuff they do is one car at time. So no racing with other people who spoil your line and put you out of the narrow power band. It's all about average power and twins for the same max power will give a higher average over the wider power band.

If I was building another 2.6 litre GTR (which we are) I would have twins on it, that said my own R32GTST has a single, but the RB31DET handles that pretty well.

cheers

[williamsf1]

yo Gary..... you should see Morgs beast with the TO4Z on it now... makes more torque earlier than my car, and mine is a torque monster!!! 559NM @ 3000rpm.....

oh and I still have some nuts for u