Oz Vs. Japs

[Falcon XR6T]

After the release of Ford's first turbocharged car they couldn't have gone alot better. I've drove one, I got one, and I'm modifying one. And I was just wondering if Australia has finally faced up to the Japs after their defeat at Bathurst. Being extremely cheap to modify (I have over 260rwkw at less than $35k including the cars purchase price), I belive that the weight can be disregarded in this case because of the huge torque it has over the Jap cars and the huge power you can make very cheaply (I've started this thread again because I lost the other one). And plus, if a family occasion pops up you can always take them and friends with you, don't see many GTR's with a towbar do ya? Have your say...

[68charger]

Hi,

They haven't caught up still 5 years behind in my opinion maybe more. And thats what everyone is comparing R34 to BA? I have a BA falcon ute and it aint that great, 70 000km more interior rattles than any reasonably new jap car ive ever ridden in, heck my fathers 1993 landcruiser rattles less!! Same again for my mates '89 silvia, with coil overs.

The brake warning lamp on the dash of my ford comes on even though there is nothing wrong with the brakes, been back to the dealer many times and ford cant fix it god is it gonna be fun trying to sell the thing with that! Might take the globe out LOL. The tail lamps have been replaced a couple of times as a result of water entry, given up on that. I do understand that other cars have issues with that so i'm not to concerned, its just that this is the first car that ive owned that has had that problem, my other cars have all been over 25 years old. So maybe its a new car thing.

You are right the turbo falcons are very fast at the dragstrip especially when modified. And it is the best falcon ever, the amount of falcon taxi's on the roads is testomony to their passenger carrying ability and long term reliability when used as a taxi.

You are right I have never seen a GTR with a tow bar, manual BA falcons are rated to tow 1200kg (2300 for automatics) i'm certain a GTR could pull a box trailer with no problems its just that GTR owners choose not to i guess. The new x-trail is rated to tow 2000kg with trailer brakes so the whole trailer thing is not an issue. If you want to pull trailers buy a Cummins powered Dodge Ram.

Once ford figures out all the little bugs in their cars they will be an excellent compromise. And I can certainly see myself blasting down the quarter mile in an xr6t! But if the turbo falcon interior is anything like the one in my BA ute you can guarantee i'l have the premium sound system cranked the whole way to the track so I can't hear the rattles!

After the release of Ford's first turbocharged car they couldn't have gone alot better. I've drove one, I got one, and I'm modifying one. And I was just wondering if Australia has finally faced up to the Japs after their defeat at Bathurst. Being extremely cheap to modify (I have over 260rwkw at less than $35k including the cars purchase price), I belive that the weight can be disregarded in this case because of the huge torque it has over the Jap cars and the huge power you can make very cheaply (I've started this thread again because I lost the other one). And plus, if a family occasion pops up you can always take them and friends with you, don't see many GTR's with a towbar do ya? Have your say...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[WazR32GTSt]

mate, you've already posted this in teh general automotive discussion forum...

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=82884

??

[Dingo]

You are right the turbo falcons are very fast at the dragstrip especially when modified. And it is the best falcon ever, the amount of falcon taxi's on the roads is testomony to their passenger carrying ability and long term reliability when used as a taxi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually the reason why they use the Falcons over Commodores for taxis is because the V configuration of the commodore doesnt work aswell on LPG, as their is still residule amount of LPG left in the cylinder which still requires abit of petrol to ignite it.

The straight 6 configuration of the falcons works perfectly on Lpg, as the cylinders are not angled. Thats why they generally use falcons over commodores as taxis.

[Falcon XR6T]

Hi,

They haven't caught up still 5 years behind in my opinion maybe more. And thats what everyone is comparing R34 to BA? I have a BA falcon ute and it aint that great, 70 000km more interior rattles than any reasonably new jap car ive ever ridden in, heck my fathers 1993 landcruiser rattles less!! Same again for my mates '89 silvia, with coil overs.

The brake warning lamp on the dash of my ford comes on even though there is nothing wrong with the brakes, been back to the dealer many times and ford cant fix it god is it gonna be fun trying to sell the thing with that! Might take the globe out LOL. The tail lamps have been replaced a couple of times as a result of water entry, given up on that. I do understand that other cars have issues with that so i'm not to concerned, its just that this is the first car that ive owned that has had that problem, my other cars have all been over 25 years old. So maybe its a new car thing.

You are right the turbo falcons are very fast at the dragstrip especially when modified. And it is the best falcon ever, the amount of falcon taxi's on the roads is testomony to their passenger carrying ability and long term reliability when used as a taxi.

You are right I have never seen a GTR with a tow bar, manual BA falcons are rated to tow 1200kg (2300 for automatics) i'm certain a GTR could pull a box trailer with no problems its just that GTR owners choose not to i guess. The new x-trail is rated to tow 2000kg with trailer brakes so the whole trailer thing is not an issue. If you want to pull trailers buy a Cummins powered Dodge Ram.

Once ford figures out all the little bugs in their cars they will be an excellent compromise. And I can certainly see myself blasting down the quarter mile in an xr6t! But if the turbo falcon interior is anything like the one in my BA ute you can guarantee i'l have the premium sound system cranked the whole way to the track so I can't hear the rattles! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never driven or owned a base model BA so I don't know what their like (and by the sounds of it I don't want to), but I can assure you (by what you've just said), the XR6T is far better engineered. I've done just under 95,000kms since 2003, I have NEVER, EVER had a problem with it, it is COMPLETELY sound in the cabin which means absolutely no rattles and the ride quality is nothing short of astounding compared to your Japanese cars, I've had a run against a 240kW EVO VIII and beat him down the quarter CONSIDERABLY (with only 20kW extra over him it must be the 883Nm of torque...). I also took the Falcon down to Mallala when it just had a bigger front mount and a Flash tuner and blew away a BMW Z4, R33 GTR (only mods were minor suspension), WRX STi, Two EVO Makinen Editions and an RX7. This was all to my surprise, I expected to be at the back of the pack (For a relatively stock XR6T I was posting 1.22sec around Mallala!). So if you haven't ever driven an XR6T it's worth your while mate, they are the benchmark of Australian performance cars.

[turbo33]

I've never driven or owned a base model BA so I don't know what their like (and by the sounds of it I don't want to), but I can assure you (by what you've just said), the XR6T is far better engineered. I've done just under 95,000kms since 2003, I have NEVER, EVER had a problem with it, it is COMPLETELY sound in the cabin which means absolutely no rattles and the ride quality is nothing short of astounding compared to your Japanese cars, I've had a run against a 240kW EVO VIII and beat him down the quarter CONSIDERABLY (with only 20kW extra over him it must be the 883Nm of torque...). I also took the Falcon down to Mallala when it just had a bigger front mount and a Flash tuner and blew away a BMW Z4, R33 GTR (only mods were minor suspension), WRX STi, Two EVO Makinen Editions and an RX7. This was all to my surprise, I expected to be at the back of the pack (For a relatively stock XR6T I was posting 1.22sec around Mallala!). So if you haven't ever driven an XR6T it's worth your while mate, they are the benchmark of Australian performance cars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

id prefer jap cars because they have aftermarket parts all over the internet, and heavy cars dont feel like race cars

[Falcon XR6T]

id prefer jap cars because they have aftermarket parts all over the internet, and heavy cars dont feel like race cars

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A heavy car such as the XR6T with a big extent of mods and suspension work feels surprisingly close to a fully fledged race car actually, unless you mean big cars are unpredictable and hard to control (which you would be wrong aswell). I have driven many EVO's and GTR's and don't get me wrong, theyre beautiful cars to drive, the EVO for example being tight and compact it does resemble a race car in braking, cornering etc. and the GTR... That was the best Japanese car I had ever driven, it handled those long, sweeping corners with great balance and precision but the XR is so much more appealing an fun to drive, and it does in fact feel like a race car.

[Falcon XR6T]

A heavy car such as the XR6T with a big extent of mods and suspension work feels surprisingly close to a fully fledged race car actually, unless you mean big cars are unpredictable and hard to control (which you would be wrong aswell). I have driven many EVO's and GTR's and don't get me wrong, theyre beautiful cars to drive, the EVO for example being tight and compact it does resemble a race car in braking, cornering etc. and the GTR... That was the best Japanese car I had ever driven, it handled those long, sweeping corners with great balance and precision but the XR is so much more appealing an fun to drive, and it does in fact feel like a race car.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just in case you don't know an standard XR6T with suspension work and rollcage placed in the top ten in Targa Tasmania 2004 up against highly modified Porsches (Jim Richards) and 500hP GTR's etc.

If the fact that a heavier car with less power can keep up and beat the likes of modified GTR's, Porsches and Evo's doesn't amaze you then I don't know what will.

[68charger]

I dont think the xr6t fords are better engineered than the base models after all they are the same car other than the engine it's just the inconsistent quality of them, my car looks like it was built in a real hurry.

I must have gotten a friday afternoon car or something. Don't get me wrong I love my BA, overall it is a great car i'm just tired of all the quality issues, the ba is light years ahead the el falcon my mum drives that thing literally started falling apart when it was just 5 years old.

I took a gamble buying a ford thinking they may have improved but the experience I have had has scared me off Australian cars forever (except for the classics). I'm happy for you that you are enjoying your ford at least you didn't get a lemon.

I would love to own an xr6t ute I think they look great, I was considering buying one but have decided to upgrade to an R34 GTT sedan instead as it seems all the the Toyota's and Nissans that my friends and family own or have owned have been far more reliable and better built than the falcons or holdens. Why should an australian built car fall apart after 5 years when there are 15 year old camrys everywhere still going strong.

I know your ford falcon will have more potential for cheap modification than a GTT but that doesn't bother me I have learnt that no matter how fast your car is there is always someone else driving something quicker.

I would just like a nice, refined car that is somewhat unique on our roads.

I've never driven or owned a base model BA so I don't know what their like (and by the sounds of it I don't want to), but I can assure you (by what you've just said), the XR6T is far better engineered. I've done just under 95,000kms since 2003, I have NEVER, EVER had a problem with it, it is COMPLETELY sound in the cabin which means absolutely no rattles and the ride quality is nothing short of astounding compared to your Japanese cars, I've had a run against a 240kW EVO VIII and beat him down the quarter CONSIDERABLY (with only 20kW extra over him it must be the 883Nm of torque...). I also took the Falcon down to Mallala when it just had a bigger front mount and a Flash tuner and blew away a BMW Z4, R33 GTR (only mods were minor suspension), WRX STi, Two EVO Makinen Editions and an RX7. This was all to my surprise, I expected to be at the back of the pack (For a relatively stock XR6T I was posting 1.22sec around Mallala!). So if you haven't ever driven an XR6T it's worth your while mate, they are the benchmark of Australian performance cars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Menthu_Rae]

No offence, I don't have the time to write a huge reply... but... after sitting in a few FPVs on the showroom floor - I was utterly surprised by how shoddy and poorly made the interiors are.

Sure they look nice in photos - but everything feels so cheap and tacky. Before you go saying "yeah but look at your Jap crap skylines"...I drive a Honda Prelude VTi-R.

The interior build quality is miles above the older skylines/silvias and most other Jap cars out there - and I can tell you pretty much the only cars I've seen with better made and more solid interiors are european cars such as BMWs, VWs, etc.

So disregarding your huge power, and supposed "race car-like cornering"... the build quality on a Ford/Holden just isn't up to par IMO.

[BigBlueR32]

I don't know exactly what you guys get down under for american cars... but they suck..

Ford

GM

Chrysler

all their cars are under developed cheap gas guzzlers.. there are a few exceptions.. (we don't get the new turbo car in N.A.) but over all they are years behind..

One example.. my uncle had an 89 oldsmobile.. he went to get a few engine components and he was given parts from a 2004 oldsmobile... talk about advancing technology there

but like I said there are a few exceptions..

[Sambo33]

on the topic of quality, i work at a crash repair shop. we had an XR6t come in the other day with some front-end damage. this particular car was 1 year old and had less than 3000ks on the clock. all of the engine bay seam-seals were inconsistant, dripping out of some areas and non-existant in others. the most surprising part for us was the fact that rust was developing in a few of the lower front & skirt panel joins! one of the boys who is a big ford fan, & planning on buying a BA later on seemed quite put off by what he saw.

[hungry6]

I counted on our company XR6T dash. It's made of 16 different pieces. 16!! WTF

This is 2005, not 1972. The way I see it, If a manufacturer isn't capable of making a single piece dash, then they obviously lacks the engineering capabilities to do anything else better. It's time Ford and Holden get their act together or they'll be solely importing ex u.s models in the next 10 years.

Back on the subject regarding the OZ. V JAP. I think it's more like when we will or if we can ever catch them. The Europeans are finding out that, they too are trailing the Japanese in automobile manufacturing. Look at toyota/nissan/honda

Also the japanese has the highest specific output for diesel, which is an area the aussie car makers don't even look at.

Straping on a turbo doesn't cut it as hi-tech manufacturing/ building.

If you need to look at hi tech look no further than at an echo motor or a current civic motor. GM and FORD lies restless at night wishing they could build something similar.

[Falcon XR6T]

Hey guys, just got back from the Toyota Rally SA. Thta's the only place your Jap cars will beat my XR6T, lol. With some more tuning it's now making marginally better peak power but massive torque gains, I shit you not this car is a rocket even in the hills on the way up there. This thing would definetly be in the low 11's (on street tyres) even though I've got big traction issues. Still got heaps to go, I'll keep you guys updated. The reason why you are saying big heavy cars aren't fast and their slugs etc. is because you don't wan't to believe that after you've payed your good money for a Skyline or Evo you still can't beat an 'overated', 'big heavy slug', 'crappy Australian build quality', 'petrol eating barge' like my car. When the whole package: "Ride quality, ability to tow caravans, extra legroom, ability to carry more passengers and have them more comfortable than a Skyline/Evo etc., sleeper like appearance, excellent standard sound system (no need for all your ricer stereo upgrades), Australian street credibility, great (standard) daily driver performance, cheap to modify, huge power gains for very little money, predictability, fuel economy and when modified a very capable, high performance road or track car. When all this isn't enough for you then I don't know what is, I mean honestly when you wan't 300rwkw+1000Nm+all the above for under $35k (second hand), under $50k (off the showroom floor) can you really go past this car?

[hungry6]

I can spend $5000 on performance bits on a rex and will hand your arse to you on a platter, LOL. That's the simple facts of life, get over it and stop comming here going on how good a XR6T is. When you can wind 700-800 hp out of the stock XR6T then we'll listen, as the japs motors are doing it for a fairwhile now. Using half of the fuel. When you really look at it, the XR6T may as well as be coal powered in term of relevance to other performance car.

If you really want to see the facts in real life just take your (modify 300rwkw + 1000nm 11 second wonder) to a track day and see if you can stay within 2 seconds of a bog stock 350Z, until you can do that then there is no point comparing it to other hypo wheels ie. skyline/wrx/supras/evo

[dezz]

i'm a ford fan, always have been

but i love the imports, and im currently looking at a R33 GTS-T

the fact is, they are in very different categories...skylines aren't intended to be family cars, or to tow caravans and boats etc...

from what i've read in the short time i've been here, there is a guy with an R33 GTS-T running low 13's with nothing major in the mods department ( exhaust CAI FMIC etc)...to me, thats pretty mad times for so few mods

taking into account the age of these R33's as 10 years older than the XR6T's, its fair to say that ford/holden etc are chasing the imports tail...

i'll always be a ford fan, and the XR6T is 1 of my favorite of the lot, because i think its a great car. but from what i've been told and heard etc, as far as build quality goes, jap is miles in front...

[Falcon XR6T]

I can spend $5000 on performance bits on a rex and will hand your arse to you on a platter, LOL. That's the simple facts of life, get over it and stop comming here going on how good a XR6T is. When you can wind 700-800 hp out of the stock XR6T then we'll listen, as the japs motors are doing it for a fairwhile now. Using half of the fuel. When you really look at it, the XR6T may as well as be coal powered in term of relevance to other performance car.

If you really want to see the facts in real life just take your (modify 300rwkw + 1000nm 11 second wonder) to a track day and see if you can stay within 2 seconds of a bog stock 350Z, until you can do that then there is no point comparing it to other hypo wheels ie. skyline/wrx/supras/evo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can see you are getting a little frustrated, now I don't mind talking to someone as long as their not so argumentative and listen to the important things I'm trying to say. With a C.A.P.A Ford Flash Tuner on my near standard XR6T I caned the crap out of an R33 GTR at Mallala so don't assume these things aren't good on the track because I did the same and surprised myself and many others in Japanese cars. I'm not one of the Ford bogans so I'm not in it for the power war, there's no need to wind 800hP out of a street car as far as I'm concerned regardless of what the Japanese are doing. I could easily hand a standard 350Z it's arse at the moment, and if you're putting it down to driver skill I could most probably beat it when my car was standard. No matter what you say you obviously haven't driven one of these if you think it's such a heap of shit, you only think that because it's a Ford and in your world isn't anywhere in contention with your Jap fantastic cars.

[Dingo]

I counted on our company XR6T dash. It's made of 16 different pieces. 16!! WTF

This is 2005, not 1972. The way I see it, If a manufacturer isn't capable of making a single piece dash, then they obviously lacks the engineering capabilities to do anything else better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually multiple parts of a dash arnt a bad thing. If a light goes out behind the dash which displays say your climate control, you only have to remove one small section to replace the bulb, insted of having to pull out the whole dash.

Diahatsu Charade = 1 piece dash. Replacing two speakers in that was a frigging hassle! had to pull the whole dash out and rest it down on our laps and replace the speakers GAY!!

To each their own.

[Wink]

Australians are still catching up to Japs.

Why?

While the Japs are dedicating their brainpower to building hybrid cars for the future, Holden and Ford Aus are still churning out petrol guzzlers "JOIN THE 6L CLUB OH BOY".

[BigBlueR32]

http://www.autosite.com/content/shared/art...icle_id_int/351

Quite an interesting article..

I keep getting impressed with honda.. a light civic with 200hp(149kw?) 1.8 ltr non turbo.. this is the type of stuff that Ford GM Chysler (holden) can't make.. and it seems they don't even care...

Cadillac just put there v8 back in there cars... cause gas is cheap...