Headgasket Gone.. So What Now?

[someonestolecc]

A couple of weeks ago I noticed my radiator was getting low and I had liquid in my exhaust..

Suspecting a head gasket I took it to get checked at Grey Imports (Annandale) where Nathan confirmed it was infact gone.

What was even worse was the previous owner had put in chemi-weld so it probably blew out on them and I was the fool that bought the car...

Oh well, the car is already about 8-10k over budget through all the dodginess. I'm not the type of person to shove my chemi-weld in it and sell it so please tell me what I should do!?

Choice 1

Fix just the head gasket. With all seals etc I think I'm looking at about $1400 plus a metal head gasket.

Choice 2

Rebuild with forged pistons and all that. Say about $5k?

Choice 3

Wrecked engine from reputable dealer.. say about $2.5k

Right now I'm leaning towards option 3... simply because option 1 means the head gasket will be fixed but I don't know what other dodgy shit the previous owner put the engine through. Option 3 ensures I get a new start.. unfortunately without the insurance of a totally rebuilt engine, but atleast a normally abused engine would be in better condition.

This is off course for a sr20.... so.. what are your guys thoughts on the subject?

*sigh*

[Abo Bob]

What other mods has the car got engine wise?

[someonestolecc]

T518Z turbo, injectors, exi mani, trust sump - all bolt on stuff but the actual engine itself is unopened.

[Abo Bob]

I say rebuild it then.

If it otherwise stock I would have said no because you are just opening yourself up to more expenses but it seems that a forged rebuild is all that you need to do to it.

What engine management?

[someonestolecc]

The engine management is retuned ECU (daughterboard).

Thing is forged rebuild is about $5k without complications.. A wrecked engine is about $2.5 and I can sell my old one, the gearbox, ECU, turbo.. etc..

Spose I don't know what I'm getting but ... $5k ... ugh so... much.. money....

[JH32]

Are you very mechanically minded?

Or any of your mates?

You can change the headgasket yourself if you can be bothered ... can't see it being that hard on an SR20 as I did it myself on my RB20 and it wasn't too hard. And it cost me probably $500 all up to do so.

Edited August 18, 2005 by JiMiH

[Abo Bob]

More room to move with an SR20 Ceffie too.

Even with a second hand engine you sill still need a gearbox

[Roy]

Bugger...the day you get this car out there and enjoy some trouble free running im going to be there with a case of beer to celebrate.

I say it depends a lot on the other concerns you have. Did you ever get the g'box woes sorted??? Id be inclined to throw another stocka motor at it, at the end of the day i would be pretty confident that a T518Z aint going to stress an SR too much, so wouldnt be too concerned about forged internals.

Have you ever had the thing on a dyno, is it actually tuned well and running well?

Id be inclined to grab an engine and g'box off a wrecker. Sell the SR turbo to a CA owner, sell off current head and block etc.

If your wiring issue, gearbox issues etc are all solved, then throw a head gasket at the current motor. But really i suppose only you know how good the current engine is, is it using oil, noisy, down on power etc etc? If it seems to be in ok condition then a head gasket aint the end of the world.

Not wanting to drum up the past, what are the things that have already been repalced. If your still running old troublesome g'box ,etc then consider a fresh start with engine and box covered by a warranty.

[someonestolecc]

Thanks for replying and the kind words Roy - tell ya what the beers will be on me I curse the day I bought this car from the person I did.

The engine wrecked I'm looking at is $2.5 with gearbox, turbo, loom and ECU from a reputable trader on ns.com (spandex).

I had to replace my gearbox already Roy so that's sorted. I've also re-wired half the car so that's sorted.. I treat this thing like my princess that used to be a whore.. I fix up the thrashing caused by other people and occasionaly have my own fun

The current engine is noisy but all SRs seem to sound like truck engines with clicking and all that.. it's also got a slight leak from the top of it that I would like to fix up. Nothing major though seems like a typical SR.

I suppose the big thing about getting a wrecked engine is I'm willing to roll the dice with an imported wrecked engine because even a thrashed engine has has got to be better than the engine I own now.

If you reckon the t518z won't need forged internals then I will scratch that idea - because I'm happy with the power and response of the turbo.

I did have the car on the dyno, it needed some timing pulled out but the tune seemed to be okay (in terms of AFR safety) till 1.1-1.2bar. So I will be keeping that or getting a mild re-tune with the new engine, should I decide to get some cams into it.

With the wrecked engine package I'd sell the ECU, turbo and gearbox to someone else straight away, then perhaps replace the injectors too (since the fact they are coloured s15 stock but painted the nismo colour over the top has always bothered me).

I'm sure the actual engine I could sell to someone who wanted to rebuild too.

So $2.5k minus say $1k to get rid of the other gear - $1.5k and then I just need to have it put in. Plus oil and other fluids etc.

[Duncan]

hahaha easy put in more chemiweld first see if it works.

Personally I would go either 1 or 2. 1 if the cost of 2 is an issue.

No way would I go 3, you don't know what you are buying until you start it up (and its too late then). Unless you are rebuilding it in which case it costs as much as 2 anyway.

[someonestolecc]

Previous owner already chemi-welded it. I'm suprised the radiator even works it's got so much shit in it.

Engine comes with 3 month warranty+reputable seller. Sounds ok no? - http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.p...howtopic=106480

Edited August 18, 2005 by someonestolecc

[wrxhoon]

For all you know you may have a cracked head , if its just the headgasket just replace it .

I wouldn't buy a used engine , especialy a very old one , you already have a used engine now , what makes you think the one you buy will be better ?

$5 k to rebuilt an sr20 thats a bit rich you can built an rb 26 fro that or even less , depending on whats wrong with it .

I would go option 1 , take the cil head off and if its not cracked , check the bore and pistons for slap if all good , service the cil head and replace the h/gasket .

[NickR33]

I would go option 1 , take the cil head off and if its not cracked , check the bore and pistons for slap if all good , service the cil head and replace the h/gasket .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sound advise... imho this would be the best plan of attack

[predator]

I give you points for persisting with the cefiro after that much curse..

[someonestolecc]

For all you know you may have a cracked head , if its just the headgasket just replace it .

I wouldn't buy a used engine , especialy a very old one , you already have a used engine now , what makes you think the one you buy will be better ?

$5 k to rebuilt an sr20 thats a bit rich you can built an rb 26 fro that or even less , depending on whats wrong with it .

I would go option 1 , take the cil head off and if its not cracked , check the bore and pistons for slap if all good , service the cil head and replace the h/gasket .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the reply.

By service the cil head what do you mean? Change gaskets?

Also - if the bore and pistons etc are all bad do you do then? Machine and new pistons? I suppose what I'm trying to avoid is the usual story of taking it to the mechanic and they find things wrong with it.. and it just gets bigger and bigger. The amount of times I've been told $300 then charged $1000 is ridiculous.

Also, $5k I was thinking of forged pistons, cams, all new gaskets, machined, put together by a shop engine in engine out. I thought $5k was conservative?

Edited August 18, 2005 by someonestolecc

[wrxhoon]

Thanks for the reply.

By service the cil head what do you mean? Change gaskets?

Also - if the bore and pistons etc are all bad do you do then? Machine and new pistons? I suppose what I'm trying to avoid is the usual story of taking it to the mechanic and they find things wrong with it.. and it just gets bigger and bigger. The amount of times I've been told $300 then charged $1000 is ridiculous.

Also, $5k I was thinking of forged pistons, cams, all new gaskets, machined, put together by a shop engine in engine out. I thought $5k was conservative?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Service the head , i mean check it out and reco , valve grind crack test cut the valve seats check the hydrolic lifters ..etc ..

Thre is no point puting it back together if the bore is stuffed .

Sure $5 k for all that is not expensive but you didn't say including in +out of the car and cams . Dont forget you have to pay R+R for the used engine as well and you are not going to have forgies , cams and fully rebuilt engine .

Its your call anyway but i dont want to see you spend $3.5 k and have a stuffed engine again .

[someonestolecc]

Service the head , i mean check it out and reco , valve grind crack test cut the valve seats check the hydrolic lifters ..etc ..

Thre is no point puting it back together if the bore is stuffed .

Sure $5 k for all that is not expensive but you didn't say including in +out of the car and cams . Dont forget you have to pay R+R for the used engine as well and you are not going to have forgies , cams and fully rebuilt engine .

Its your call anyway but i dont want to see you spend $3.5 k and have a stuffed engine again .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds logical. So service the head... I just don't want to get ripped so it helps if I can specify exactly what I need done and get each part quoted.

Once it comes off it gets valve grind crack tested, check the lifters, valve seats. So.. when you say "reco" . .. doesn't that involve new parts? reco is the same as rebuilding the head right?

If so parts and labour it's probably about $2.5k right?

The guy quoted me for about $1400 just to have the gasket changed and he mentioned checking the head. I'd have to clarify if he meant what you said. He did say if it was buggered or something caused the head gasket to blow out in the first place it'd cost more.

What I DON'T want to end up doing is taking my car in for a head gasket, then have something discovered to be wrong, then have the option of paying $5k for a full engine rebuild, or $4k to fix what's wrong with it, leaving my engine half rebuilt.

So I'm still a bit lost. If I walk into a garage and say "reco my head" .. their version of what that means might be a bit different. Would you mind spelling out exactly what needs to be done (and things that are a good opportunity to change at the time) so I can run it through with them?

Thanks!

[Roy]

All the ppl saying dotn buy a used engine from a wrecker. I had a wrecker SR20DE engine put in my N14 when the std engine spun a bearing. The replacement engine from SSS came with a 3 month warranty, didnt need it as the engine was perfect.

Fast forward to my R32, i have had two RB20DET wrecker engines in it. Both were good engines, the first one only died as a result of spanner work, not the engiens fault. The current engine is making 230rwkws, has done 8-12 track days, 10,000kms with various tunes and power, has no blow by, good compression...cant fault the engine.

I see it if you are buying privately, then dont buy a 2nd hand engine. But if you are buying from a wrecker then im a lot more confident in the quality of the engine. A reputable wrecker like SSS or EKW offer 3 month warranties, if you have aftermarket turbos etc then they usually only offer turn key warrranties...but that can be discussed at time of purchase.

The cars that they rip engines out of arent drift cars, they are the perfectly good, worthless stockas. With the level of engineering gone into these engines i dont think you can hurt a motor with std ECU, turbo etc etc. Generally they wont wreck high kim cars because of service history, and they often rip the sumps off them to gauge the condition of the car.

If you had big plans for power and more mods, then rebuild. If you are happy with performance and just need more reliabiulity, then dont discount an engine from a wrecker.

Edited August 19, 2005 by Roy

[TTT]

CC - My VR4 blew a head gasket the day I sold it before the owner took it out of sydney.

I payed for half the cost.

drove it to my mechanic off boost with full radiator (it was down the road).

cost was $900.

that included sending the head away to get crack tested (luckily it was fine)

He has done Many SR20 head gaskets and even more rebuilds.

if you want his details let me know.

He is a greek guy I have known for close to 10 years, he has a workshop in Bankstown.

Basically if you were to tell him that you suspect a blown headgasket due to reasons X Y and Z, and that you have noticed someone before you had used Chemiweld, he will be able to tell you roughly what the cost will be and what would need replacing.

what he can't quote is the cost of head work if you have cracked/warped the head due to overheating or anything.

but I can't see anyone giving you those quotes.. perhaps a rough estimate asa worse case scenario...

I'm sure like most people, you will see the words mechanic and bankstown and assume the worst... But he really is a decent bloke. it's a family business and his wife is the lady in the office.

let me know if you want some details.

you could at least use him as a rough over the phone quote as a base to work off.

I feel so sick in the stomach after reading all the previous problems you've had with this car.

EDIT - if you decide to go down the "just get another engine from wreckers" route, he will also be cheaper to use to take the old one out but the new one in and put all your goodies on it for ya

Edited August 19, 2005 by GTST

[wrxhoon]

Sounds logical. So service the head... I just don't want to get ripped so it helps if I can specify exactly what I need done and get each part quoted.

Once it comes off it gets valve grind crack tested, check the lifters, valve seats. So.. when you say "reco" . .. doesn't that involve new parts? reco is the same as rebuilding the head right?

If so parts and labour it's probably about $2.5k right?

The guy quoted me for about $1400 just to have the gasket changed and he mentioned checking the head. I'd have to clarify if he meant what you said. He did say if it was buggered or something caused the head gasket to blow out in the first place it'd cost more.

What I DON'T want to end up doing is taking my car in for a head gasket, then have something discovered to be wrong, then have the option of paying $5k for a full engine rebuild, or $4k to fix what's wrong with it, leaving my engine half rebuilt.

So I'm still a bit lost. If I walk into a garage and say "reco my head" .. their version of what that means might be a bit different. Would you mind spelling out exactly what needs to be done (and things that are a good opportunity to change at the time) so I can run it through with them?

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

$1400 just to replace a h/gasket is a bit steep on an sr20 in my opinion .Are you sure that was just for the h/g replacement and not servicing the cil head as well ?

If you just going to replace the h/g all you need is a headgasket , inlet and exhaust gaskets , all up uner $200 + oil + coolant .

To do a complete head service you need a vrs gasket set ( it has everything you need to reco the cil head including h/g , inlet ,exhaust rocker cover and valve stem seals .

Ring around any cil head reconditioners and ask them how much they want to reco your head , i can get it done in sydney for about $300 . Next step ask your mechanic to give you a quote to r+r the head , add together and thats it .

Tell the head reco place to supply the vrs kit or buy one from Nissan youself ( you will pay 15-20% more that they will , they get a trade discount ) .

Ask your mechanic how much just for labour or including oil, oil filter and coolant .

See how you go with that but if the bore is scored then be prepared for a full rebuilt .

Ever had a compression test or leakdown done before ?