Blown A Standard Turbo On Gtr

[R32 TT]

Hey gang,

Well, the thing happened that I had hoped wouldn't.

Did a fair bit of Dyno work last week, fitting a new ECU, and - after about an hour of being finished - my front Stock Turbo spat it.

I pulled out into traffic and gave it a foot full and it more or less went halfway through making boost I think.

Luckily I was only about 500m from the workshop so I parked it more or less straight away..

Now I've read a lot of posts saying that blowing a standard turbo exhaust wheel can somehow take out the motor?

Firstly - how? Can the bits of wheel travel back up the exhaust manifold against the pressure of exhaust flow AND make it past an open exhaust valve?? OR, did the motors that have blown actually lose a wing or two on the compressor side (which seems more likely)

By the way, we have the turbos and exhaust off and yes, my wheel is in 'bits', it didn't stay as one piece..

Also, for those who have actually had this happen - did it more or less munch the motor straight away? Or a few hundred kilometers later?

The reason I ask is my motor still starts and purrs just like it did before. Obviously I am not driving it - but it "seems" fine.

Someone said "ceramic dust" can get back into the motor, and then slowly grind it up... but that seems even less likely than "pieces" getting in there as surely dust wouldn't make it against the exhaust flow?

What else can I "look for" to try and save the motor?

Gimme some good new guys..

Cheers!

PS.. Yes, I had turbos on order since about 6 weeks ago and would have had them fitted by now if they were in the country... <_<

[MANWHORE]

The block to speak to will be wrxhoon. He knows his stuff, and I belkieve what he says.

Sydneykid on the otherhand does not beleive it can happen. Many other people have experienced this. I believe gtr geoff did too?

I can't remember the exacts of it, but basically, it's the ceramic exhaust wheel. What happens, is it hits the turbo housing, and breaks into little pieces forming dust. due to the valve timing, at certain times, the engine is under vaccum - keep in mind there are only 3 cylinders. it is much less likely to happen in a gtst with all 6 poushing gas continuously through the exhaust.

basicall,y it's not going to kill your motor straight away. it's not like it won't start. what it does do is scratch the cylinder and the piston. wrxhoon still has the pistons he removed from the engine after the stock turbo blew.

My suggestion would be to definitely don't drive it. dump the engine oil through coffee filter paper. if you feel grittiness in there, then I would imagine it would be rebuild time.

[R32 TT]

hmm.. I can understand that as 2 of the 3 exhaust valves are closed that when the 3rd is open is might be exerting pressure back up the manifold to towards 2 and 3..., but there isn't "airflow" in that direction is there? (and not vacuum surely?)

And even is something was sent right up to a closed valve, wouldn't it be blasted out the moment the valve started to open?

I'm not saying to anyone it hasn't happened of course.. if people have had it happen, then its happened - who am I to argue... I just can't understand how.

And since some people have said theirs has been ok - am wondering how you figure it out before its too late...

I can't believe this could mean a full rebuild!

[josip]

lol its time for a 3ltr Bottom end, get some huge GT35/40Rturbs, 3 speed trimatic 4000stall......... "Joking"

i think u'll be fine, i can find u a cheap turbos if u need anything..

does that happen with Ball bearing turbos in ur skylines too ???

If u live in Melbourne u should visit Bresciani Racing, they r not just VL builders, they build everything RB26 or 30 Professionals. and tell them wat happend...

1. turbos 2x for $500 Pete

0409226626

2. FS: R33 GTR standard turbos for sale, good condition - never boosted.

only pulled off due to going large single.$480 for the both.

0404877626 ask for marty.

3. R32 GTR Turbos $400 pair

Parts are located in sydney willing to freight at buyers cost

[email protected]

i posted this bcoz it might be useful and there are more parts... cheap GTR heads... R32 GTR Gearbox $500.. heaps of stuff

[pnblight]

Matt,

The best way to try and explain what happens is if you think of the turbine wheel spinning at god know what rpm starts to brake apart the ceramic piece would be traveling at hugh velocity in all directions and it's not hard to see how the pieces could over power the exhaust flow back to the exhaust valve (normally the cylinder in the centre and in line with the turbo cops the worst of it 2 on frt and 5 on the back)on the r34 i sore this happen to it even damaged the inlet valve with small dents ans scratches from the ceramic pieces getting caught. I best way to see if it has damage the engine would be a compression test on the gtr i did the three damaged cylinder were all down on compression compared to the rest.Can i ask what boost you had been running the turbos at?

pete

ps i hope it is all ok

[R32 TT]

Matt,

      The best way to try and explain what happens is if you think of the turbine wheel spinning at god know what rpm starts to brake apart the ceramic piece would be traveling at hugh velocity in all directions and it's not hard to see how the pieces could over power the exhaust flow back to the exhaust valve (normally the cylinder in the centre and in line with the turbo cops the worst of it 2 on frt and 5 on the back)on the r34 i sore this happen to it even damaged the inlet valve with small dents ans scratches from the ceramic pieces getting caught. I best way to see if it has damage the engine would be a compression test on the gtr i did the three damaged cylinder were all down on compression compared to the rest.Can i ask what boost you had been running the turbos at?

pete

ps i hope it is all ok

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

G'day Pete,

Yeah I can see what you mean re the velocity that parts off the turbo would have when it let go. They'd be fairly moving! It's just that they're so light - I figured even a whisper of air would blow them back downward toward the cat.. And considering the air speed and force of the exhaust I wouldn't have thought they'd go far at all.. To me it seems like throwing confetti against a stiff wind! It'd go nowhere! But... if people have had it happen.. well then, there goes that theory.

I guess its all academic now anyway. I guess I have to spend the money on new turbos, have them fitted and then just "see" if it continues to live...!?

I *hate* that. I'll do the compression test and see. I know all six cylinders had 150 only a week before it happened. So if any are down - I guess we'll know..

As for the boost - at the time, and during the last half of all of the dyno tuning etc it was running dead on 1bar. But the owner I bought the car off mostly ran 1.15 and had often run it at 1.25bar. Prior to the Motec going on I had continued to run it at 1.1bar myself..

Naturally I had hoped to have the new turbos on before this happened! Especially since I only drive it weekends - but as you know - the GT2860/2650r have been out of stock.....

I suppose the Dyno tuning would have put it under a fair bit of stress.

Also, there was quite a lot of backfiring as the revs were being backed off on Dyno... Would this be having a "detonation" effect on the turbo's do you think?

[R32 TT]

If u live in Melbourne u should visit Bresciani Racing, they r not just VL builders, they build everything RB26 or 30 Professionals. and tell them wat happend...

Cheers for that Josip, I might give them a call and see what they reckon..

My engine builder doesn't think it would happen - but to be fair, he's not doing Skylines everyday and may not have thought of the fact that just 3 cylinders are in the equation...

[pnblight]

Ok well your lucky they have hung in this long as i have seen std turbos blow that had exceed .9 of a bar. And i think you will like the GT2560R's when they go on as they hall arse when setup right.

[IOWNU]

Ok, I have a similar story.

I imported a GTR from Jap, went to pick it up from the wharfes and found that the turbos weren't working (drives like an N/A) Later found the turbine wheels in the cat.

Bought turbos, gave em to the mechanic.

Drove the car a bit without functional turbos.

Today, found out that after the turbos were installed, the engine may have packed itself. Still not sure, but it won't even start now. Cranks over and complains, sort of a grinding sound. Wont start. I think the turbo stuffing up may have something to do with it.

LINK:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=85535

Edited August 27, 2005 by IOWNU

[R32 TT]

Ok, I have a similar story.

I imported a GTR from Jap, went to pick it up from the wharfes and found that the turbos weren't working (drives like an N/A) Later found the turbine wheels in the cat.

Bought turbos, gave em to the mechanic.

Drove the car a bit without functional turbos.

Today, found out that after the turbos were installed, the engine may have packed itself. Still not sure, but it won't even start now. Cranks over and complains, sort of a grinding sound. Wont start. I think the turbo stuffing up may have something to do with it.

LINK:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=85535

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh oh...

[IOWNU]

Uh oh... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

haha that's what i was saying about 6 hours ago......

What's really confusing is, that on my last GTR, it was obvious i blew the engine (wasnt cause of the turbo) and you could hear the clear tapping of the bottom end.

At the moment all u can hear is a grinding sound when trying to start. I assume that once it starts i'll be able to hear it. I'm kinda hoping that it's not stuffed though, will find out for sure on Monday. All i know is that rebuilds=expensive.

[R32 TT]

haha that's what i was saying about 6 hours ago......

What's really confusing is, that on my last GTR, it was obvious i blew the engine (wasnt cause of the turbo) and you could hear the clear tapping of the bottom end.

At the moment all u can hear is a grinding sound when trying to start. I assume that once it starts i'll be able to hear it. I'm kinda hoping that it's not stuffed though, will find out for sure on Monday. All i know is that rebuilds=expensive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah.. what a mess. Only had the car a while. Put in a 12.33 on its first run and I took it home. (not into the drags, just wanted to see..)

Dropped a fair bit of cash into it in a short time including a Motec M800 and Motec CDI ignition system... Garrett GT2860r's on order - but out of stock so we fitted the Motec gear intending to run it for 4 to 6 weeks while we waited for the turbos.. Made 256rwhp on the old setup running 1.15bar - but ran a healthy 275rwhp running only 1bar flat using the Motec, with crisp throttle and idle etc..

Might sound like I "have the money" but quite frankly, I have stretched the budget.

If the motor needs a rebuild I am down for the count in the 2nd round...

Would it be cheaper/better to simply buy a drop in replacement motor?

I'm looking for no more that 500 engine hp - so I had hoped the stock unit would be up to it.

?

...sorry to hear that you're in the same predicament.. no fun eh...

Edited August 27, 2005 by R32 TT

[IOWNU]

Yeah..  what a mess. Only had the car a while. Put in a 12.33 on its first run and I took it home. (not into the drags, just wanted to see..)

Dropped a fair bit of cash into it in a short time including a Motec M800 and Motec CDI ignition system...  Garrett GT2860r's on order - but out of stock so we fitted the Motec gear intending to run it for 4 to 6 weeks while we waited for the turbos..  Made 256rwhp on the old setup running 1.15bar - but ran a healthy 275rwhp running only 1bar flat using the Motec, with crisp throttle and idle etc..

Might sound like I "have the money" but quite frankly, I have stretched the budget.

If the motor needs a rebuild I am down for the count in the 2nd round... 

Would it be cheaper/better to simply buy a drop in replacement motor?

I'm looking for no more that 500 engine hp - so I had hoped the stock unit would be up to it.

?

...sorry to hear that you're in the same predicament..  no fun eh...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm its definantly cheaper to rebuild the engine.

The cheapest I could find a replacement motor was about $4.5g. Add about 500 bux labour, plus oils etc, 5g all up. Plus, you don't know how long the engine you've bought will last...whereas a rebuild, you know it will last a while....although running it in is really annoying LoL. Cost wise, rebuild should be a fair bit less, unless you've done some heavy damage.

[R32 TT]

Hmm its definantly cheaper to rebuild the engine.

The cheapest I could find a replacement motor was about $4.5g. Add about 500 bux labour, plus oils etc, 5g all up. Plus, you don't know how long the engine you've bought will last...whereas a rebuild, you know it will last a while....although running it in is really annoying LoL. Cost wise, rebuild should be a fair bit less, unless you've done some heavy damage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats interesting you say that.. I hadn't tried to cost it up as yet (burying my head in the sand )

But I think I had read on the forums most people suggesting $6k-$8k??

So the question is now - do I pull it apart and "see" if I can save a lot of the components before they're f$%$#.

What do you reckon would be a rebuild cost then when you say its a fair bit cheaper?

$500 Labour? Isn't that just for getting to motor out??

[IOWNU]

Thats interesting you say that..  I hadn't tried to cost it up as yet (burying my head in the sand  ) 

But I think I had read on the forums most people suggesting $6k-$8k??

So the question is now - do I pull it apart and "see" if I can save a lot of the components before they're f$%$#.

What do you reckon would be a rebuild cost then when you say its a fair bit cheaper?

$500 Labour? Isn't that just for getting to motor out??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

500 bux, in and out. That was the cost for pulling out the old motor, putting in a new one.

Labour is cheap in Melb, especially where I live, heaps of performance mechanics competeing for the mullah.

Now....6-8k....sounds too expensive, unless they're upgrading all the internals. Even a full rebuild, I can't imagine it going past 5g.

If you open up the engine, and see whats still good, what's gone, then you can save a fair bit. That's how I did my last rebuild, only one of the bearings was gone, so just replaced it, machined etc, cost me less than 3g all up. But, it wasn't a "FULL" engine rebuild. If you're gonna keep the car, then you might upgrade the internals etc, it would be worth it if you're rebuilding anyway. So, in summation, rebuild might work out cheaper, might work out to be the same at most, depending on how battered the current motor is. Regardless, i dont think its worth putting in another motor, unless you are sure that it has done very low kms and has a long life ahead of it. Even so, I'd still go the rebuild, just for the peace of mind.

[R32 TT]

500 bux, in and out. That was the cost for pulling out the old motor, putting in a new one.

Labour is cheap in Melb, especially where I live, heaps of performance mechanics competeing for the mullah.

Now....6-8k....sounds too expensive, unless they're upgrading all the internals. Even a full rebuild, I can't imagine it going past 5g.

If you open up the engine, and see whats still good, what's gone, then you can save a fair bit. That's how I did my last rebuild, only one of the bearings was gone, so just replaced it, machined etc, cost me less than 3g all up. But, it wasn't a "FULL" engine rebuild. If you're gonna keep the car, then you might upgrade the internals etc, it would be worth it if you're rebuilding anyway. So, in summation, rebuild might work out cheaper, might work out to be the same at most, depending on how battered the current motor is. Regardless, i dont think its worth putting in another motor, unless you are sure that it has done very low kms and has a long life ahead of it. Even so, I'd still go the rebuild, just for the peace of mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow! $500 in and out? I think I've been charged near to that for just pulling the turbos off... Took them about 6 hours, they said is was a jerk of a job... What's the labour rate there? I'm paying around $77 an hour..

Yeah I tend to agree with you then, I think if you've got it out - I would do all bearings and so on.. I know how these things go though.. "ah, we may as well upgrade the pistons, crank and rods..." !!

Perhaps I better pull my neck in though..

[IOWNU]

Wow!  $500 in and out?  I think I've been charged near to that for just pulling the turbos off...  Took them about 6 hours, they said is was a jerk of a job... What's the labour rate there?  I'm paying around $77 an hour..

Yeah I tend to agree with you then, I think if you've got it out - I would do all bearings and so on.. I know how these things go though..  "ah, we may as well upgrade the pistons, crank and rods..." !! 

Perhaps I better pull my neck in though..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LoL Perth is expensive.

I'm not sure about the labour rate, but I have real mates rates from my mechanic some costs have been:

Engine swap RB20: $500.

R33 GTST, clutch replace: $150.

R32 GTR, rebuild: $2900

R32 GTR, turbos removed and replaced: $300

That said, the highest i got quoted for the turbos was $450 (still not bad) and yes they're a hell of job on the GTRs.

Anyway, good luck with your car, nice to know that I'm not the only one whos wasted a lot of money on GTRs, but boy is it worth it.

[R32 TT]

....but boy is it worth it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mate... that's all I needed to hear...

Good luck with it - keep me posted on what it was with your motor - I'll do the same,

Catch,

M

[IOWNU]

Mate...  that's all I needed to hear... 

Good luck with it - keep me posted on what it was with your motor - I'll do the same,

Catch,

M

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Will do. I'll have proper details on Monday.

Peace.

[wrxhoon]

Matt,

      The best way to try and explain what happens is if you think of the turbine wheel spinning at god know what rpm starts to brake apart the ceramic piece would be traveling at hugh velocity in all directions and it's not hard to see how the pieces could over power the exhaust flow back to the exhaust valve (normally the cylinder in the centre and in line with the turbo cops the worst of it 2 on frt and 5 on the back)on the r34 i sore this happen to it even damaged the inlet valve with small dents ans scratches from the ceramic pieces getting caught. I best way to see if it has damage the engine would be a compression test on the gtr i did the three damaged cylinder were all down on compression compared to the rest.Can i ask what boost you had been running the turbos at?

pete

ps i hope it is all ok

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Matt ,

Pete is spot on , i have the evidence still here , the old pistons , the 3 rears stuffed when it spet a turbo in my old 33 about 2 years ago .

Someone took it for a spin around the block and came back with one exhaust wheel in the cat and ceramic dust everywhere in the engine .

I did a complete rebuild on that engine at the time , even the oil pump was scored a little . All 3 rears had low compression around 70-100 psi , 2 valves were slightly bent and ceramic crap imbeded in the cil head , not a pretty sight .

I know of several rb 26's that had the same problem , some with less damage than mine , it probably depends on the revs at the time and if you backed off or not , as i wasn't driving i can't say what revs it popped ( i assume 8000+) and if he backed off straight away or not .

I know SK is a bit skeptical even after i posted pics of the pistons in the forum , but several others have seen it happen .

I hope your engine is fine but if i was you i will be budgeting for a rebuilt .